Apple needs to make 16 GB of Ram standard or they may never have a laptop monopoly.

[retta283]

Apple will never have a laptop monopoly. Not when the overwhelming majority of buyers do not know or simply do not care about the amount of RAM in the laptop. The only way Apple gains a significantly larger penetration (and even then remains dubious for various reasons) is by getting the price well under $1000, and do you think adding MORE memory will help them achieve this?

It would be nice if they put the memory up to 16GB, I think 8GB is definitely starting to get long-toothed. But as others have noted, Apple have been pulling this move for decades, going back to the PowerPC days. Likewise I do not believe Apple has any delusions of being able to overtake Windows computers, any sober-minded person would see this. Jobs always admitted as much, Cook maybe hasn't said anything but why should he at this point given the Mac is not their main revenue driver?

 

[retta283]

I am literally using 5.61 GB of Ram right now, with only 2 browser tabs opened.

I am no longer 100% Apple sheep because of Apple's shady practices of Ram Management.

also just want to point out that this is intentional, this was an advertised feature of OS X Mavericks 10 years ago. Has behaved like this ever since. Perhaps you are pushing the system beyond its limits with other apps when you're running out of RAM, but seeing this kind of memory usage is totally normal.

For kicks here's my 2012 iMac with 16GB of RAM displaying even more usage than yours, with only this thread and a Gmail tab open, no other apps.

 

[Analog Kid]

I am no longer 100% Apple sheep because of Apple's shady practices of Ram Management.

I just had to start with the pun... No longer an Apple sheep because you don't like the Apple rams?

When do you think Apple will make 16 GB Standard?

If you want 16GB of RAM, buy 16GB of RAM. Don't decide for other people what they need.

I also see her with multiple different apps opened, treating her MacBook as if it had 16 GB of Ram.

I don't know what your sister's apps are doing, but if she's not consuming a ton of CPU then paging out to disk isn't going to be a problem. That's what swap is for.

I now make Apps for the Apple App Store. I was expecting it to be ultra memory efficient, but I was wrong...

Last Friday, I was using a whopping 18 GB of Swap, and I got the "Out of Memory" error on my MacBook.

It sounds like you have a memory management problem you should fix. I have no interest in using an App that consumes 26GB of RAM unless I'm putting 24GB of data into it for processing.

If you think something should be memory efficient and it isn't, don't blame the hardware, hunt for bugs. I've seen so many coders fall for the "I wrote it right, so it must be something else" delusion. Apple shouldn't change their product line because you can't write efficient code-- think of this as a learning opportunity.

 

[WilliApple]

If you think something should be memory efficient and it isn't, don't blame the hardware, hunt for bugs. I've seen so many coders fall for the "I wrote it right, so it must be something else" delusion. Apple shouldn't change their product line because you can't write efficient code-- think of this as a learning opportunity.

I am talking about Xcode, with Simulator. That eats up Ram fast.

 

[Analog Kid]

I am talking about Xcode, with Simulator. That eats up Ram fast.

Ok, the standard use of the “standard” machine isn‘t running the Xcode suite and simulating another device that itself might have 8 or 16GB or RAM within your system.

 

[Choco Taco]

Really? When did this happen?

Never.

 

[Toutou]

Apple is paying less than $5 (and more likely in the $3 range) for 8 GB of RAM. Yet they charge what, $200 for that RAM upgrade.

"Just pay for the upgrade" as though spending an extra $400 on $5 worth of parts is seen as reasonable.

The ram and storage games are Apple's best scams

Okay guys, better sit down for this one:

The price of a product bears little to no relation to its production costs.

 

[Timbukstu]

Greetings!

I got my M1 MacBook Air in May of 2021. While I was very satisfied with it, there was one huge problem I didn't think about at the time...

The future...

It's April of 2023, I have had this MacBook for almost 2 years (Longest out of any other laptop btw), and I have changed my lifestyle a lot.

I now make Apps for the Apple App Store. I was expecting it to be ultra memory efficient, but I was wrong...

Last Friday, I was using a whopping 18 GB of Swap, and I got the "Out of Memory" error on my MacBook.

As my app got more and more complex and had even more stuff, the Memory issues started getting a lot worse.

Another complaint I have about my MacBook is that my hands have grown a lot (This is a me problem tbh), and I am very excited for the 15 Inch MacBook Air. Probably something I will upgrade to once I can figure out how to bring it around.

HOWEVER!​

I do not like Apple's shady practices of starting with 8 GB and 256 GB of Storage for this reason. First, my sister runs out of her storage a lot... and she is just an average user. I also see her with multiple different apps opened, treating her MacBook as if it had 16 GB of Ram.

What's even worse is that you cannot get the M1/M2 MacBook Air with 16 GB of Ram at an Apple Store without pre-ordering it... It's like Apple doesn't think the average user would use it. I have seen otherwise, a ton...

I wanted to get 16 GB of Ram back then, but needed a new laptop very fast. Being very satisfied with my M1 MacBook Air at the time, I cannot say I am very satisfied anymore, and I thought I was one of the biggest Apple Sheeps on this forum...

I am literally using 5.61 GB of Ram right now, with only 2 browser tabs opened.
View attachment 2190142

I am no longer 100% Apple sheep because of Apple's shady practices of Ram Management.

The 15 Inch M3 Air sounds like a dream machine to me, AS LONG AS IT HAS 16 GB OF RAM STANDARD...
I am not willing to spend $1,899 on a consumer level machine. Thats probably how much the 16 GB 15 Inch M3 Air is going to cost tbh.

All these M1/M2 Airs in circulation will probably become obsolete in like 3 years time because of how slow Apple is.
Mark my words!

And then most people will see how important 16 GB of Ram is for their everyday tasks, and possibly switch to Windows because iMessage exists there now.

When do you think Apple will make 16 GB Standard? Thanks in advance!

Sounds like the company needs to shift to spend more to retain the average user since 2 browser tabs make a base model unusable. Time to reduce profits to save the customer base.

Fwiw we use 8gb models in our graphics design firm which use adobe cloud. Luckily we are still generating revenue with those. Maybe compute will move to the cloud and not necessitate as much local Ram when you can use swap ? The 8gb m1 s are better than our $3500 mbp from 2016 however. We still use the 2016 but will eventually refresh to the 2020 m1 8gb this year. It’s an amazing machine. At 1/3 the cost.

 

[Salty Pirate]

It would be nice if there was a command to run a 16 GB notebook with only 8. GB. See how it performs.

 

[bradman83]

Would I like to see 16 GB as the standard? Sure. But Apple follows the market here. Just about every current Windows-based 13" laptop - the XPS, Spectre, ZenBook, Surface, among others - start out at 8 GB of RAM. For many users that's enough and will be enough for the life of the laptop. What Apple needs to rein in are its excessive upgrade fees. Dell, for example, only charges $100 between RAM upgrade intervals.

 

[Feek]

His hands grew?

I wondered about this.

I've just measured my M2 MBA keyboard, it's 10 3/4" from side to side.

My full size buckling spring IBM Model M keyboard is 11" from side to side.

Obviously I'm talking about the main body of the keys, not including the cursor keys/ insert, home and the numeric keypad. The point is that it's basically the same size as a full size external mechanical keyboard.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Greetings!

I got my M1 MacBook Air in May of 2021. While I was very satisfied with it, there was one huge problem I didn't think about at the time...

The future...

It's April of 2023, I have had this MacBook for almost 2 years (Longest out of any other laptop btw), and I have changed my lifestyle a lot.

I now make Apps for the Apple App Store. I was expecting it to be ultra memory efficient, but I was wrong...

Last Friday, I was using a whopping 18 GB of Swap, and I got the "Out of Memory" error on my MacBook.

As my app got more and more complex and had even more stuff, the Memory issues started getting a lot worse.

Another complaint I have about my MacBook is that my hands have grown a lot (This is a me problem tbh), and I am very excited for the 15 Inch MacBook Air. Probably something I will upgrade to once I can figure out how to bring it around.

HOWEVER!​

I do not like Apple's shady practices of starting with 8 GB and 256 GB of Storage for this reason. First, my sister runs out of her storage a lot... and she is just an average user. I also see her with multiple different apps opened, treating her MacBook as if it had 16 GB of Ram.

What's even worse is that you cannot get the M1/M2 MacBook Air with 16 GB of Ram at an Apple Store without pre-ordering it... It's like Apple doesn't think the average user would use it. I have seen otherwise, a ton...

I wanted to get 16 GB of Ram back then, but needed a new laptop very fast. Being very satisfied with my M1 MacBook Air at the time, I cannot say I am very satisfied anymore, and I thought I was one of the biggest Apple Sheeps on this forum...

I am literally using 5.61 GB of Ram right now, with only 2 browser tabs opened.
View attachment 2190142

I am no longer 100% Apple sheep because of Apple's shady practices of Ram Management.

The 15 Inch M3 Air sounds like a dream machine to me, AS LONG AS IT HAS 16 GB OF RAM STANDARD...
I am not willing to spend $1,899 on a consumer level machine. Thats probably how much the 16 GB 15 Inch M3 Air is going to cost tbh.

All these M1/M2 Airs in circulation will probably become obsolete in like 3 years time because of how slow Apple is.
Mark my words!

And then most people will see how important 16 GB of Ram is for their everyday tasks, and possibly switch to Windows because iMessage exists there now.

When do you think Apple will make 16 GB Standard? Thanks in advance!

Stop whining because you chose a version incorrect for your needs during the lifecycle of the purchase. Next time remember that RAM usage by OS/apps always increases over time, and wisely invest in addidtional RAM above what is needed on purchase day one.

Read up on Apple's Unified Memory Architecture. It rocks, and I expect that it will contribute to RAM usage by OS/apps always increasing over time.

There are some usages (K-12 schools perhaps) where low RAM can be worked around, and where initial price is enterprise-critical.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Would I like to see 16 GB as the standard? Sure. But Apple follows the market here. Just about every current Windows-based 13" laptop - the XPS, Spectre, ZenBook, Surface, among others - start out at 8 GB of RAM. For many users that's enough and will be enough for the life of the laptop. What Apple needs to rein in are its excessive upgrade fees. Dell, for example, only charges $100 between RAM upgrade intervals.

Agreed. Apple's RAM prices are excessive.

 

[Jumpthesnark]

The 15 Inch M3 Air sounds like a dream machine to me, AS LONG AS IT HAS 16 GB OF RAM STANDARD...
I am not willing to spend $1,899 on a consumer level machine. Thats probably how much the 16 GB 15 Inch M3 Air is going to cost tbh.

Buy what you have the budget for. Period. New or refurb, which processor, how much storage, how much RAM, what brand it is, what size it is, etc.

Buy what fits your budget and your needs and don't expect a free pony too. Making demands on Apple in an online forum isn't going to change a single thing.

Oh and one more tip: if you're buying a computer to run a business, you're not paying for it. Your customers are.

 

[fisherking]

The ram and storage games are Apple's best scams and they will not give it up easily.
Apple is not trying to capture the laptop market.

yes, this is why no one buys macbooks, and apple is a poor corporation, and not making any money... as it's been for some time 🙄

 

[monstermash]

yes, this is why no one buys macbooks, and apple is a poor corporation, and not making any money... as it's been for some time 🙄

I wouldn't buy a Max with less than 16GB of RAM....so....uh....I don't.

I see no reason to force anyone else to do so. If they want to save money by getting less memory, more power to them!

 

[Analog Kid]

I personally believe that, regardless of whether or not 8GB is enough, Apple computers are supposed to be premium products and are priced as such. 8GB of ram and 256GB hard drive is not premium; it is entry level.

I'm not sure where it's written that Apple products are supposed to be premium.

That aside, if you're going to say RAM size isn't premium, you have to acknowledge that having the fastest processor even in the lowest end product is premium. Most applications in general use are single threaded, and even the entry level machines give the top tier single threaded performance.

So while people seem freaked out by the fractions of a second they imagine they're losing because Chrome needs to swap a pre-rendered page in from disk, they're ignoring the fact that most companies differentiate their low end machine with low end processing which would, in actual reality, slow down Chrome.

So people should be careful what they wish for-- if they succeed in getting Apple's ear on this, Apple may be forced to compromise things that actually matter to people not trying to get YouTube views with contrived benchmarks.

 

[Rychiar]

No, she's not. 256GB is more than enough storage for the average user, home and corporate. Heck, I'm only using 220GB on this MBP, and I've got 75GB+ of ALAC files in that mix, which the average user absolutely does not have.




Because they wouldn't. They might page out to disk occasionally, but with fast SSDs they won't notice it.

256go is barely enough for my computer to function. Even with 512 and mostly working off of a remote server my scratch disc fills up constantly just trying to edit photos … but ya can always put a thunderbolt SSD on… ya can’t fix apples crippled ram

 

[DMG35]

I really don't think they need to do that. If you need more RAM and more power than the Air might not be the best option for you. I travel with a base air and with 8GB it flies around everything I want to do with it. I can have a dozen tabs open, messages, email, Office, and music all running at the same time and its lightning fast.

There are people that want to travel with the Air that just want the Mac experience that don't need any of the extra RAM and most certainly don't want to pay for it when they aren't going to use it.

I currently have the following running:

Bartender
Adblock
Adobe Acrobat Pro
Paste
8 Safari tabs
Microsoft Outlook
Music
Messages

I see zero slowdown and everything runs perfectly. I certainly don't think 16GB is a bad thing, but the fascination with RAM is sometimes very strange. Most of the time people don't use any of the extra RAM. Its kind of like a security blanket for people that they have all of this extra RAM just sitting there I guess.

Either way, I don't think 8GB is a bad thing at all and I can absolutely get everything I need to get done on the road without any issues.

 

[CTHarrryH]

Just a little amusing (today) historical prospective. My first Apple computer was an Apple II (not plus or E) it came standard with 4K of memory.

 

[GMShadow]

256go is barely enough for my computer to function. Even with 512 and mostly working off of a remote server my scratch disc fills up constantly just trying to edit photos … but ya can always put a thunderbolt SSD on… ya can’t fix apples crippled ram

Please understand the concept of average user. You needing more does not change the fact that the average user does not.

 

[Rychiar]

Please understand the concept of average user. You needing more does not change the fact that the average user does not.

How many average users even own macs? I stared with Macs 20 years ago cus i needed one for design school and i do photography. I continue to use it for That. I imagine if i didnt have any kind of creative use for it I’d probably just own an iPad or even just a phone. A lot of people out there there these days just do everything on their phone or some cheap laptop like a Chromebook

 

[erikkfi]

I'm OK with 256GB of storage for a base level. I agree on 8GB of RAM though. But Apple loves pretty much nothing more than a starter price and specs that are both low and need to be moved northward by many users. What do they gain from switching to 16GB of RAM as standard across the board? They have to either move the starting price up for all of them -- which truly could hurt sales -- or lose a little profit by keeping the price where it is but giving all customers more for their money. Remember: their goal is for you to choose a $1299 computer, bump some specs so it's actually $1549, then throw in AppleCare to take it to $1709, and maybe buy a case....

So I think eventually they will, once 8GB of RAM feels as out of date as a 5400RPM HDD did when they took it out of the last iMac. They'll need 32GB to be a tempting upgrade option and we're just not there quite there yet.

 

[Analog Kid]

I think being able to multi-task is very important in any machine. 8GB is okay, but, and as many pointed out, will result in virtual memory for most tasking. Not everyone may need 16GB, but it is becoming a standard in premium machines.

That being said, this is largely a subjective issue, and, and I said, people who have no use for 16 GB may feel it unimportant. However, most people today are running several apps and multiple browser pages at the same time, some of which may be streaming. Hence, I believe that 16 GB should be the minimum.

So far as defining premium machines, Apple machines are priced premium, with the newest MacBook Air starting at $1,200 before tax. A Lenovo Thinkpad, Core I7 (12th Gen) with 16 GB of ram and 512 SSD is only $825. That's not saying it's exactly Apple's to Apple's (pun intended), but it does represent a decent comparison of a solid laptop with a current generation processor.

ThinkBook 13x Gen 2 (13" Intel) | Power-packed, ultraportable business laptop

The Lenovo ThinkBook 13x Gen 2 laptop is built for business on-the-go, with a 12th Gen Intel® processor, taller 16:10 13.3" display, and long-lasting, 56Wh battery.

www.lenovo.com

You’ve completely ignored my point.

 

[casjohnr]

I don't mind Apple starting at 8/256 particularly, but it is slightly annoying how they seem to restrict third party retailers to storage upgrades only

For example Amazon will knock a good few % off the Apple RRP more often than not, but if I want a memory upgrade I have to pay full base RRP as I have to buy direct from Apple then the upgrade on top so I generally don't bother (even though I think many third party retailer orders just come straight from the factory anyway!)