Apple Negotiating With OLED Suppliers for Next Year's iPhone SE 4

[deconstruct60]

Next year? I thought the rumors where this year?

Rumors keep tightly coupling this SE 4 with the Apple modem. The Apple modem keeps sliding into the future ( 'next year', then 'next year ' again. rinse and repeat.)

Somewhat similar to Apple haggling for $20 screens when the vendor producing them now ( with all the R&D markdown of just selling an 'old' product they already make ) is at $30 ( Apple looking to shave another 33% off the cost). Same thing with the modem costs... probably trying to drive the costs down by a hefty margin.

Decent chance that the first production Apple modem doesn't have 5G mmWave ( only sub6). The SE is the only iPhone line left that can 'accept' that limitation. ( Qualcomm is still going to get the contract for the upper range iPhones as Apple can't 'cover' those Qualcomm x79 (and up ) abilities for several more years.

Apple Extends Modem Licensing Deal With Qualcomm Through March 2027

Apple has extended its modem chip licensing agreement with Qualcomm through March 2027, Qualcomm said today during its first earnings call of 2024....

www.macrumors.com

)
When there was a large hype train about how Apple would kill the Qualcomm modems in a couple of years, the SE 4 was on a faster track.

Same line of constraints , is the swapping the extremely mature TouchID for FaceID ( and dynamic island). It is just cheaper to wait another year for those subcomponents to get closer to being as inexpensive as Touch ID is.
( likely not going to be a price-to-price even trade-off which is likley pushing these Scrooge McDuck tactics on the screen and modem bill of material costs. )


SE --> SE2 was 4 years ( 2016 - 2020 ). SE2 --> SE3 was 2 years ... but much more minor change ( SoC and Radio swap out). 2022 + 3 years is about 2025. It wouldn't be too surprising if there were modem hiccups to slide into 2026 ( same 4 year gap that last major form factor change had).

 

[deconstruct60]

It's a little bit hard to even understand the purpose of an SE that's basically the same as the 14. Why not just keep the iPhone 14 on the market and save the development costs?

The SE likely has less cameras. So it will be cheaper to make. The current SE3 lacks mmWave that the iPhone 13/14 have. Again.... cheaper component costs. More then decent chance SE4 doesn't get mmWave also. (minimally getting a 'version 1.00' modem that may not be better than the mature Qualcomm modem in the 14. ** ).

Remove holes that you drill for the 'extra' camera and taking they out has an very incremental R&D change costs. Not really a 'moon shot' project to remove items from an established, proven design.

Pretty likely they'll keep selling the 14 also at a higher price than SE4. Better cameras , etc. even though 'old'. Even more so if SE4 is not outer case capable. People looking for replacements for broken 13/14 will just pay more.
( The SE/SE2/SE3 folks have a case change hit anyway. )


** P.S. the Apple metric benchmark is likely that their modem only has to be 'at least as good as' or 'better than' the one in the SE3/iPhone 13. Not the 14 or 15 (or 16).

 

[baryon]

Eh. Sounds like the iPhone SE4 will just be an iPhone 14 with one less camera. Not sure what advantage it will have especially when the price of older devices will have come down by then.

A Mini form factor would at least be a good differentiator and a good way to make it cheaper.

 

[brofkand]

I feel you, and it's crazy that Apple is willing to abandon this group of buyers. However, it seems that the choice is currently between 5.92" Asus Zenfone or 6.1" iPhone. It's weird that that no Android manufacturer has filled the mini niche. While mini's sales were lackluster compared to larger iPhone models, they were still massive compared to the sales of most Android phones.

People keep moving the goalposts with things like this. They say they want a small phone, then when someone releases it they come up with nitpicks.

Same thing with manual transmission cars. Always some excuse why a car guy doesn't have a manual transmission in his daily driver.

 

[Saradove]

Well it looks like I will be going the frankenphone route. I have an SE3 but I'd like a bigger screen and better cameras, I also have an Iphone 11 but that is older tech that won't be supported much longer. I guess I will buy a used 13, probably just go for one in good condition, since I plan on replacing the screen anyway. That way I can have a better camera, night mode and 5G. I've tried the 14 and it was a no go, even handling my niece's 14 at Christmas when I was trying to help her with a few things, gave me a headache. And I went to the Apple store and played with the 15 Plus since some here said they could tolerate it, but I ended up with eye strain and a headache about an hour after I had been looking at it. So the frankphone route for me if I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, I've thought about switching to Android, but their LCD phones are on the lower scale spec wise, so I might as well stay with what I know

Well it looks like I will be going the frankenphone route. I have an SE3 but I'd like a bigger screen and better cameras, I also have an Iphone 11 but that is older tech that won't be supported much longer. I guess I will buy a used 13, probably just go for one in good condition, since I plan on replacing the screen anyway. That way I can have a better camera, night mode and 5G. I've tried the 14 and it was a no go, even handling my niece's 14 at Christmas when I was trying to help her with a few things, gave me a headache. And I went to the Apple store and played with the 15 Plus since some here said they could tolerate it, but I ended up with eye strain and a headache about an hour after I had been looking at it. So the frankphone route for me if I want to stay in the Apple ecosystem, I've thought about switching to Android, but their LCD phones are on the lower scale spec wise, so I might as well stay with what I know.

How easily could an OLED screen be changed to an LED? That would be an eye-saver!

 

[klasma]

Next year? I thought the rumors where this year?

It’s been “not before 2025” since January 2023: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/01/06/iphone-se-4-canceled-kuo/

 

[klasma]

If they will only release big phones and not mini, then I would rather get iPhone 15 or 16 rather than SE 4 to replace my 13 mini.

I don’t think there’s a need to replace the 13 mini for three or four more years.

 

[klasma]

I'm still hoping for a iPhone 13 mini sized alternative. I love iPhones for their compact size option. My kids (small hands) prefer it too.

It would actually be a good idea for Apple to market such a phone “for kids”. iPhone Junior?

 

[klasma]

How easily could an OLED screen be changed to an LED? That would be an eye-saver!

Highly unrealistic, with rounded corners, Dynamic Island, and Apple’s dongling of hardware parts.

 

[deconstruct60]

Eh. Sounds like the iPhone SE4 will just be an iPhone 14 with one less camera. Not sure what advantage it will have especially when the price of older devices will have come down by then.

Currently, the iPhone 14 price is $699. Usually, Apple takes another $100 off for being 'one year older'. So next year the iPhone 14 would be $599. The SE price point right now is $429. That is still over a $100 gap. If Apple moves the SE4 price point to $399 it would be even wider. ( Android phones in the $299-450 'street price' zone are getting better each year. e.g., Pixel 6a/7a , Samsung A54G , etc. ) . The 'latest plain' iPhone price point has crept up to $799 (and if Apple pushing that up even more than an even bigger issue). So $200 cut still leaves it in the $599 zone. That really isn't an 'entry price' phone.

If the SE4 comes with a A17 in 2025 ( or even 'better' a A18) and the iPhone 14 sells at $499 with a two generations back SoC, the SE4 isn't going to have a problem. IF Apple saddled the SE4 with a A15 then yeah that would be a problem. Some folks are going to want a better camera and/or cases that they already have and will spring for the n-2 year old iPhone 4. Others will spring for the SE4's newer SoC that is on discount with their discount carrier. There is room for both.

The $399 price isn't unprecedented for a SE. The original SE went for that price.

" ... The iPhone SE is available in Silver, Gold, Space Gray, and Rose Gold, in 16 and 64GB capacities. Pricing starts at $399 for an outright purchase of the 16GB model, ..."

iPhone SE and 9.7-Inch iPad Pro Now Available for Order

Apple is now accepting orders for the iPhone SE and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro through its online storefront and through the Apple Store app. Orders are...

www.macrumors.com

Part of the SE's market problems of late has been the price creep. In 2026-28 it isn't going to get any better is Apple drifts up on price.

A Mini form factor would at least be a good differentiator and a good way to make it cheaper.

Apple gets to 'cheaper' mostly by selling 'older' , not smaller. There is mixed messages because the plain (smaller) iPhone is less costly than the Max/Pro larger screen models. But is mainly older ( or least paid for by massive volume which leads to greater economies of scale).

The problem with the Mini is that it didn't get 'old enough' to get sold with 'cheap enough', very mature parts.
The also priced the Mini 'too high'. The other problem with the "premium" with pragmatically no discounts pricing. If it has started at $629 ( or $599) then a $200 trim would have put it at the iPhone SE-like pricing levels. It was a "money grab" more than a "value/volume grab". The mini was sold in a manner to least fratricide impact on 'plain' iPhone sales of the same generation ( and a bit less so on the n-1 generation's "year two" sales. ).

The "people will pay 'extra' for smaller" sales pitch conflicted in lots of basic ways with the more general
"bigger screens cost more" with the rest of the line up.


If Apple pushes the 'plain' iPhone screen even larger on the next iterations then the 13/14 screen size will be relatively 'smaller' in that new context.

 

[seek3r]

How easily could an OLED screen be changed to an LED? That would be an eye-saver!

Apple's serializing of parts makes that unlikely

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Next year? I thought the rumors where this year?

All the current Lightning iPhones, 13, 14, 14 Plus, and SE 2022, will, at the very latest, get cut from Apple's iPhone line-up on December 28, 2024(in the E.U., probably rest of the World too).

But post December 28, the iPhone line-up will be without any lower-end offerings besides (at that time older and slightly discounted) iPhones 15 and 15 Plus.

It is possible that this 4th Gen SE gets introduced alongside iPhones 16 in September, or even before WWDC, maybe in April.

But considering how Apple has previously launched SEs, it's far more likely SE 4th Gen. drops in Q1-Q2 2025.

March to April 2025 is my guess.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

Currently, the iPhone 14 price is $699. Usually, Apple takes another $100 off for being 'one year older'. So next year the iPhone 14 would be $599. The SE price point right now is $429. That is still over a $100 gap. If Apple moves the SE4 price point to $399 it would be even wider. ( Android phones in the $299-450 'street price' zone are getting better each year. e.g., Pixel 6a/7a , Samsung A54G , etc. ) . The 'latest plain' iPhone price point has crept up to $799 (and if Apple pushing that up even more than an even bigger issue). So $200 cut still leaves it in the $599 zone. That really isn't an 'entry price' phone.

If the SE4 comes with a A17 in 2025 ( or even 'better' a A18) and the iPhone 14 sells at $499 with a two generations back SoC, the SE4 isn't going to have a problem. IF Apple saddled the SE4 with a A15 then yeah that would be a problem. Some folks are going to want a better camera and/or cases that they already have and will spring for the n-2 year old iPhone 4. Others will spring for the SE4's newer SoC that is on discount with their discount carrier. There is room for both.

The $399 price isn't unprecedented for a SE. The original SE went for that price.

" ... The iPhone SE is available in Silver, Gold, Space Gray, and Rose Gold, in 16 and 64GB capacities. Pricing starts at $399 for an outright purchase of the 16GB model, ..."

iPhone SE and 9.7-Inch iPad Pro Now Available for Order

Apple is now accepting orders for the iPhone SE and the 9.7-inch iPad Pro through its online storefront and through the Apple Store app. Orders are...

www.macrumors.com

Part of the SE's market problems of late has been the price creep. In 2026-28 it isn't going to get any better is Apple drifts up on price.






Apple gets to 'cheaper' mostly by selling 'older' , not smaller. There is mixed messages because the plain (smaller) iPhone is less costly than the Max/Pro larger screen models. But is mainly older ( or least paid for by massive volume which leads to greater economies of scale).

The problem with the Mini is that it didn't get 'old enough' to get sold with 'cheap enough', very mature parts.
The also priced the Mini 'too high'. The other problem with the "premium" with pragmatically no discounts pricing. If it has started at $629 ( or $599) then a $200 trim would have put it at the iPhone SE-like pricing levels. It was a "money grab" more than a "value/volume grab". The mini was sold in a manner to least fratricide impact on 'plain' iPhone sales of the same generation ( and a bit less so on the n-1 generation's "year two" sales. ).

The "people will pay 'extra' for smaller" sales pitch conflicted in lots of basic ways with the more general
"bigger screens cost more" with the rest of the line up.


If Apple pushes the 'plain' iPhone screen even larger on the next iterations then the 13/14 screen size will be relatively 'smaller' in that new context.

iPhones 13, 14, 14 Plus and SE 2022 will most likely not be sold next to SE 4th Gen as E.U. regulations push all Lightning iPhones out of the official iPhone lineup come December 28 this year.

 

[seek3r]

All the current Lightning iPhones, 13, 14, 14 Plus, and SE 2022, will, at the very latest, get cut from Apple's iPhone line-up on December 28, 2024(in the E.U., probably rest of the World too).

But post December 28, the iPhone line-up will be without any lower-end offerings besides (at that time older and slightly discounted) iPhones 15 and 15 Plus.

It is possible that this 4th Gen SE gets introduced alongside iPhones 16 in September, or even before WWDC, maybe in April.

But considering how Apple has previously launched SEs, it's far more likely SE 4th Gen. drops in Q1-Q2 2025.

March to April 2025 is my guess.

That’s doubtful, my understanding is that the requirement in the EU is new devices, old ones can still be sold

 

[picpicmac]

The report's sources said Samsung offered the lowest unit price of $30, BOE offered $35, and Tianma $40. Apple is reportedly haggling for $20

Suss as hell.

 

[goodcow]

Yeah I will also use it till it lasts, have you updated it to iOS 17? I am kinda scared cause I remember when I had the 7 and when I did a software upgrade for it, it became slow and the battery life went pretty bad, my brother has a 12 and he has said that IOS 17 has made his phone slow.

I’m on 17, and it runs great. Very smooth.

 

[allenvanhellen]

Uhhhh... please don't look now, but there already is no up-to-date mini option (the most recent is 2 cycles & over 24 months old)...

My iPhone 13 mini can get the latest iOS update, and that will continue for at least another year or two. That’s what I mean. Beyond that, it will keep working well for a long while until the browser and other security certificates expire.

 

[svish]

Great to hear that all the iPhones will finally shift to OLED display!

 

[MrTangent]

Aren't you afraid of menu bar being permanentnly burned-in?

There’s strategies to eliminate this issue. Allowing Menu Bar to fade out/in as cursor touches top area of screen is one strategy.

 

[MrTangent]

What for? I work with my computers. I can see enough already.

True blacks. ‘Nuf said.

 

[3530025]

There’s strategies to eliminate this issue. Allowing Menu Bar to fade out/in as cursor touches top area of screen is one strategy.

I believe this would not completely eliminate the issue - only minimize it. Still a lot of static content on the menu bar. (i.e. top left Apple logo, battery icon, speaker icon, wifi icon...).

Also I'm not sure it would be worth it to have whole menu bar less readable unless mouse-focused... Definitely trade down for me. I must say currect MacBook screens with local dimming are really great for being non-OLED screen.

 

[deconstruct60]

iPhones 13, 14, 14 Plus and SE 2022 will most likely not be sold next to SE 4th Gen as E.U. regulations push all Lightning iPhones out of the official iPhone lineup come December 28 this year.

If the SE 4 is sold in 2025 then it is utterly immaterial what the EU regulations say. By the time the 16 gets released Apple's normal 'roll off' process would have stopped the 13. The line up would be 16 , 15, and 14 at the bottom.

The other issue is that by end of 2024 both the 16 and 15 would be on USB C. Well over 50% of iPhone sales will be on the new port. If the EU perused the draconian threat policy here all that would likely happen is the EU consumers would get screwed. Apple would leverage the situations to effective just raise prices in EU ( oops so sorry, your regulators won't let us sell you this 14 at a more affordable price. The cheapest iPhone you can by is the 15 . )
[ e.g., EU regulations killed the Mac Pro 2012 in 2013 while Apple continued to sell it in the rest of the world. Note that law to snag existing products had a 7 year transition time. Apple should have not have gotten caught in that and was abnormally slow to update the chassis fans. ]

A retroactive enforcement is 'hilariously' hypocritical. One of the explicitly stated reasons for this law was to 'fight' e-waste. There are 10's of millions of perfectly fine lighting chargers in Euro which more rapidly get turned into eWaste by prematurely killing off the 14. The 14 is on it way out anyway. When the 17 arrives, it will naturally stop. Same thing with the SE3 ( macrumor's buyers guid has it tagged to 'caution'. although that is likely a bit premature if Apple is waiting on their version 1.00 modem. )


This law only passed 2 years ago. The design cycle for a decent phone is almost two years long. If I recall correctly, in some EU countries the mandator warraty period is 3 years long. So what your 14 breaks in 2025 then can't replace 'evil' lighting port phone because hyper rigid , retroactive law says that the port is now 'evil' everywhere under all circumstances? That is even more e-Waste.


The 14 and SE3 basically follow the same electrical guidelines of the USB C PD charging semantics. A modular Type C to Lightning cable that mets Apple's standards will enable any modular USB-C charger that correctly implements the standard to charge the phone. What have here if applied in draconian, fascist fashion is almost entirely a "form over function" situation. 10's of millions of chargers/cables are not going to disappear in just 2 years and if try to force that to happen then primarily will generate a massive bubble of new e-Waste.

If reasonably applied to all NEW devices what you get a gradual transition that allows more of the existing chargers/cables get the end of the their natural service lifetime and no huge artificially induced bubble of waste.

The top 3 largest regions for iPhone sales are not the EU. Apple doesn't have to abnormally shift their entire cadence for the EU here if the EU wants to be hypocritical. I suspect they did originally plan to get the SE4 out in 2024 , but if it slides to early 2025 the EU just waits a couple of months. On a 2-3+ year product cycle that doesn't make much of a strategic difference.

 

[Populus]

All 6 phones on A18 gen and all 6 phones get local Siri LLM would be great.

I get 5: the iPhone 16, the iPhone 16 Plus, iPhone 16 Pro, iPhone 16 Pro Max, and then, the iPhone SE.


It would certainly be neat to have all 5 devices with an A18 and 8GB of RAM, but even then, I’m not sure I’ll buy one, because of the big size of all of them, and the OLED screens that give me eye strain.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

That’s doubtful, my understanding is that the requirement in the EU is new devices, old ones can still be sold

Well, you are partially right.

Apple and retail will be allowed to sell existing stock of Lightning iPhones.

But no "new non-compliant stock" may be sold after the regulations take effect.

This means that Lightning iPhones have to be produced and sent to retail before the due date or be barred from getting sold in the EU.

I have to assume there'll be some crazy low discounts on iPhones 14 and older as we get post iPhones 16 and nearer December 28.

Promoting USB-C as the future while trying to argue that Lightning iPhones are still attractive must be a nightmare for retailers!

 

[CarAnalogy]

The report's sources said Samsung offered the lowest unit price of $30, BOE offered $35, and Tianma $40. Apple is reportedly haggling for $20

This is a very, very Apple sentence.