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The OP touches upon the ‘why’. I don’t care about the ‘why’ though, because it is still a loss of consumer privilege and it affects all of their customers there. Hence, I feel free to comment on this, whatever Apple’s reason. I believe that return rights should be upheld everywhere and a decent company should try to adhere to that.



‘Rated the highest’ and ‘renowned for their customer service’? Are we talking about Apple? Has it occurred to you that this might be a highly subjective observation or might not be true in all countries?



By obliging all of their Hong Kong customers to agree that there will be no obligation upon Apple for returning or exchanging goods? They take good care indeed. Some other commenters here have outright said what this is about: to combat scalpers. Don’t even pretend that this is about consumers.


Your anger toward Apple, (it's unfortunate that they did something that has caused you to be so consumed with antipathy towards them), is causing you to make irrational statements. You make the ludicrous statement that Apple doesn't care about consumers, only "combatting scalpers," when the primary reason you "combat scalpers" is to protect consumers from scalpers buying up tickets, phones, etc., and then forcing consumers to buy them from the scalper at a greatly inflated price.

For your own well being, let go of your anger.
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It should be noted that this is intended to reverse charges if there is a dispute. It is not a catch all solution to "buyer's remorse" and the purchaser could be liable for the amount later if no justification was found for the reverse. In other words, this is intended to protect you from a situation like mail order goods never arriving or finding a purchased product is dead when unboxed and the merchant being unwilling to do anything about it. Buying a product and later deciding you don't want it, although the credit card company would reverse the charge, could result in a claim against you personally.


No, you are misstating it. It isn't intended "to reverse charges if there is a dispute." It is intended to put the charge on hold while a good faith investigation takes place. The outcome of the investigation might be to remove the charge, but that depends on the results of the investigation.
 
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That has nothing to do with a return law. You also don't understand how it works.

Nope, you are changing what you said because you are wrong.

There is no "US Law" on returns. It's up to businesses to decide.

There is a US law on returns for particular reasons, as described by state law. For example, goods were not as described. If there were no law, you would have to sue the business. The credit card law changes this.

I did not say there was a US law on general buyer's remorse return. However, again, there are laws, mostly on the state level, mandating cooling off periods on certain products notably used cars, timeshares, etc, which are buyer's remorse return policies.

https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0176-buyers-remorse-when-ftcs-cooling-rule-may-help
http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/publications/CoolingOffPeriod.asp
 
No, you are misstating it. It isn't intended "to reverse charges if there is a dispute." It is intended to put the charge on hold while a good faith investigation takes place. The outcome of the investigation might be to remove the charge, but that depends on the results of the investigation.

Excuse you, you are correct; not reverse, hold. OP seemed to be insinuating that this is a way to force a return to the merchant though and that's not the case.
 
Gosh this is actually really embarrassing to read as I'm from Hong Kong........

To anyone on this thread that is discussing about the return policy termination, I'd like to provide more information about the reason behind this as from what's actually happening here.

One of the comments earlier already mentioned the problem or people reselling iPhone at launch for profit, and yes, the problem is really serious here due to a number of reasons:

1. The price for all models of iPhones are the cheapest when compared against Taiwan and China. Due to taxes and exchange rates, buying an iPhone (or actually any Apple product) is cheaper in Hong Kong. We're talking about a maximum difference of up to 950HKD (~122USD) when comparing the price of a 256GB Jet Black iPhone 7 Plus in Hong Kong and China. Therefore this leads to a potential for profit if anyone desires to resell a brand new, unopened iPhone to people in China.

2. Models available in Hong Kong are unlocked and that they don't have the firmware restrictions that the Chinese government required Apple to install on their devices on sale in China. These extra limitations required by the Chinese government leads to some of the apps not working or blocked when it comes to those like Whatsapp and etc. As messages could be filtered through those tampering.

3. There are literally just TOO MANY people exploiting the return policy in the past. As many are aware, the iPhone 7 supply is limited for a few reasons and especially for the Jet Black models. This leads to a higher demand for Jet Black, and other colors are mostly deemed "unworthy" for resell as nothing is special about the rest of them. As a result, reselling price of iPhone 7 Plus and iPhone 7 in Jet Black has been pushed up to maximum of 20000HKD (~2578USD) as of today. However on the contrary, reselling price of other models (brand new) such as the iPhone 7 in 32GB has dropped below the official listed price. If the return policy is still active, people who are taking advantage of the demand in China which have "strategically bought the wrong models to resell" would've returned the phones to Apple to prevent them from a potential loss, abusing the policy.

This phenomenon has been happening every year since Hong Kong is included on the list of areas for initial launch, so it is actually understandable for Apple to terminate the return policy for iReserve. It doesn't really damage the right of real customers that actually USE their phone, as we are still able to get support from Apple through AppleCare anyways. Terminating the policy actually helps a bit in stopping people from taking advantage of the policy if their plans in reselling their new iPhone for profit, and helps real users in getting their hands on their phone.

My apologies for this lengthy comment and my horrible grammar. But this local phenomenon being raised to an international level is just embarrassing.
 
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Who is affected by scalping in Hong Kong and exactly in what way?
OK, so let's go back to the iPhone 4S days, when Apple let people queue up for launch day in Hong Kong:

Gang Violence Breaks Out Over iPhone 4S At Hong Kong Apple Store
Last night fights, a riot and a police evacuation were the results of a clash between a group of professional South Asian ‘queuers’, whose job it is buy large quantities of new products at launch, and Hong Kong citizens.

Later in the evening things turned ugly when the professional ‘queuers” arrived and tried to push to the front of the line. Their was an argument between the groups, and threats of additional gang members arriving to force the other people lining up to leave. Eventually the police were called and things died down.

That, along with the scalpers also fighting customers in China (including an incident that cracked the glass doors of an Apple Store), caused the next Hong Kong launch to go like this:

Apple Store Hong Kong opens up reservations for iPhone 5, confirms no walk-in purchases

Not only could customers not line-up for iPhone purchases any more, scalpers created online bots that would immediately book all of the online reservations, as soon Apple opened them.

Apple said:
Due to high demand, we are accepting a limited number of iPhone 5 reservations per day. To request an iPhone 5 reservation, please choose your store and the iPhone 5 you want. If we have an iPhone 5 reservation for you, you’ll receive a confirmation email by 9:00 p.m. tonight that includes the time when you can pick up your iPhone 5 tomorrow. A current and valid government-issued photo ID exactly matching the name and full ID number on your reservation is required for iPhone purchases.

Apple then implemented a reservation "lottery system" (above), where you registered and then had to check your email at 9 PM each night, to see if you won the "lottery" to be able to buy an iPhone the following day. Pretty easy to plan your week out with the potential of having to run up to the Apple store one morning, on a date unknown ... maybe.

Scalpers in Hong Kong are organized and don't mess around.

Those are just two examples of how bad the scalping can be in Hong Kong, and how the results affected the rest of Hong Kong being able to purchase Apple devices.
 
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iphone7-plus-jetblack-select-2016-250x250.jpeg
Apple updated its purchase policy for Hong Kong today to reflect that all Apple and Beats products purchased at its retail stores in the region cannot be returned or exchanged.

The exact reason for Apple suddenly disallowing returns and exchanges at its five Hong Kong retail locations, and whether it is a temporary move, remains unclear at this time.

Apple previously allowed customers in Hong Kong to return or exchange undamaged products with the original receipt and packaging within 14 days of the date of purchase.

The change was made on the same day iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus launched in Hong Kong, where the smartphones have been reselling on the black market for up to 15,000 Hong Kong dollars, or up to $1,933 in U.S. dollars. CNBC and South China Morning Post both ran articles about these lucrative scalping efforts, which have become commonplace with every iPhone launch, earlier today.

Hong Kong is a hotbed for black market electronics due to the lack of import taxes and duties added to foreign goods purchased, as is the case in neighboring mainland China. Scalpers often attempt to illegally smuggle new iPhones across the border to mainland China to make significant profits, including one smuggler caught with 94 iPhones strapped to his body in 2015.

A tipster informed MacRumors that the return policy change also applies in Macau, another special administrative region of China.

Article Link: Apple Not Accepting Returns or Exchanges in Hong Kong
I wouldn't be surprised if they were getting some counterfeit products returned instead of the originals. China is notorious for this
 
when the primary reason you "combat scalpers" is to protect consumers from scalpers buying up tickets, phones, etc., and then forcing consumers to buy them from the scalper at a greatly inflated price.

Scalpers thrive where there is scarcity and high demand, the extreme violence associated with this is a proof of how lucrative it is. Apple is also in the position to change this. I argue that what they are doing now is not an effective means of achieving that and it affects every other customer there directly.

Your anger toward Apple, (it's unfortunate that they did something that has caused you to be so consumed with antipathy towards them), is causing you to make irrational statements.

I find your claims about me humorous. I also didn’t say that Apple ‘doesn’t care about consumers’, these are your words. You are trying too hard to paint me as being angry or hateful towards Apple. I consider this discussion done.
 
One clean fair policy. No more rubbish please Apple.

No returns, period. One clear fair policy. Everyone treated the same.

Apple is trying to ensure iPhones re available to the most customers and not have scalpers buy phones "on Spec" by shifting the risk to the buyer if the phone is unsold. For most customers that won't be an issue since they actually want the phone for their own use or as a gift.
One thing they did in the US a few years back was walk down the sue and ask each person what model they wanted, check stock and, if available, took their name and gave the person a number that they used to buy the phone. After they verified your information they completed the transaction. This wasn't as much an anti-scalping issue but rather a way for folks not to stand in line for hours only to be told "Sorry, out of stock." Such a system might make scalping harder because you only get 1 phone per person and they have to stay in line to get there's; plus at some point the cost of paying someone to stand in line of 1 phone eliminates a good bit of the profit, especially if the model yo get is not that popular.

In the US, sporting events often sell programs for the event. I was at one that was a special event and scalpers were buying boxes of the program for later resale; to the point regular fans couldn't buy one since ether were all sold. What was funny was watching the scalpers scream when the venue announced they were printing more, and would ship them, for the cost of one at the venue; one scalper, on a fan site, complained loudly of people "being against his making a living" when they posted links to the venue sales site whenever he posted programs for sale. EBay had ads offering to "sell" the link for huge amounts of money while listing the link in the ad to kill scalper sales. In financial parlance, the scalpers went long on programs and lost their shirts, since to sell them they had to off them at a discount and pay shipping; they simply made a bad bet.
 
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FWIW, looks like you accidentally included your reply above in the iPhone 7 breakdown thread. I quoted it and brought it back over to this thread.

I'm ambivalent on if there truly is a negative impact from this no return policy. Too many folks familiar with the culture have posted in this thread that "no returns" is status-quo in that region, and Apple Store managers have always had the ability to bend this policy on a case-by-case basis.

I don't know what the permanent fix is, but by waiting literally until launch day to drop this on the HK scalpers, they now have to scramble to organize something overseas, and they're now going to have to pay to ship the phones internationally. It's not nearly as convenient (or inexpensive) as buying in Hong Kong and driving to the border with mainland China.
That's what I got for using multi-quote and tabbing around.
Thanks for picking up the quote. :)

Good points I guess, however the same can be said for a HK buyer who wanted to get their device on launch day with the return-policy, just in case.

Oh well, I guess there could be worse, maybe they will offer it again, retro-actively too maybe.

Glassed Silver:mac
 
No anger here sister/brother. No need to complain about my postings either. You don't appreciate my viewpoint, that's fine. Get informed yourself though. Apple has every ability to provide good customer service and offer returns including change of mind returns. What customers do with their purchase has nothing to do with Apple after it is sold. On returns, Apple should have systems in place to identify counterfeit products or tampered packaging and units. Apple also has the ability to prevent sales of bulk purchasing of iPhones. Preventing returns is the wrong direction to go. Apple isn't always right.

Yes to the bolded part. That is why they can deny returns for change of mind. DairyQueen doesn't allow me to return their products.
 
Yes to the bolded part. That is why they can deny returns for change of mind. DairyQueen doesn't allow me to return their products.
You're comparing food products with electronics? When was the last time you ate an iPhone on a hot summer's day??
 
The bottom line is they have the right to set their return policy or lack thereof and I as a consumer have the right to shop elsewhere as a result.

Personally, I think there should be a minimum of a 30 day return policy, preferably a 90 day return policy on everything, including Apps. But that is what I would want to see, I wouldn't really want it regulated to require that.
 
Take this ---- policy to the courts. Customers have a right to return any product for an exchange or refund.

Don't have confidence in a market, then don't sell the device in that market.

Ummm Maybe you don't realize Hong Kong is not part of the USA. It is a part of China.

As you may or may not know, China is a COMMUNIST country and a dictatorship. Even though Hong Kong has slightly modified laws, it is still China, and Citizens (aka customers) don't have many rights. And certainly no consumer protection.
 
Take this ---- policy to the courts. Customers have a right to return any product for an exchange or refund.

Don't have confidence in a market, then don't sell the device in that market.

Man, do you even know what you are posting about?? Have you been in Hong Kong? There is no refund or return there, except for defective goods. If a western company gives free refunds the people are happy. If not they don't care.

Don't think its a human right to have a free refund.
 
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Scalpers in Hong Kong are occupying all reserve time slots and available stock by automatic bot programs. Not allowing them to return the stock has no significant impact to them because they can check the resell price that day and if the price is not good they just don't show up to pick up the phone. I think Apple should, just like the Online Store, charge these people's credit card for the full amount of the phone (at least take authorisation of the amount), and charge penalty for no shows. Otherwise normal users will never be able to buy a black iPhone or Plus models this year until the supply constraints (i.e. Profit) ends.

In addition, Apple should try harder to identify bots and permanently ban the Apple IDs that have a record of using them.
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Ummm Maybe you don't realize Hong Kong is not part of the USA. It is a part of China.

As you may or may not know, China is a COMMUNIST country and a dictatorship. Even though Hong Kong has slightly modified laws, it is still China, and Citizens (aka customers) don't have many rights. And certainly no consumer protection.
This is absolutely not correct. Although Hong Kong's autonomy is sometimes threatened by mainland authorities, it is basically a separate legal jurisdiction and people here enjoy quite a high degree of freedom and to a lesser extent, democracy.
 
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iphone7-plus-jetblack-select-2016-250x250.jpeg
Apple updated its purchase policy for Hong Kong today to reflect that all Apple and Beats products purchased at its retail stores in the region cannot be returned or exchanged.

The exact reason for Apple suddenly disallowing returns and exchanges at its five Hong Kong retail locations, and whether it is a temporary move, remains unclear at this time.

Apple previously allowed customers in Hong Kong to return or exchange undamaged products with the original receipt and packaging within 14 days of the date of purchase.

The change was made on the same day iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus launched in Hong Kong, where the smartphones have been reselling on the black market for up to 15,000 Hong Kong dollars, or up to $1,933 in U.S. dollars. CNBC and South China Morning Post both ran articles about these lucrative scalping efforts, which have become commonplace with every iPhone launch, earlier today.

Hong Kong is a hotbed for black market electronics due to the lack of import taxes and duties added to foreign goods purchased, as is the case in neighboring mainland China. Scalpers often attempt to illegally smuggle new iPhones across the border to mainland China to make significant profits, including one smuggler caught with 94 iPhones strapped to his body in 2015.

A tipster informed MacRumors that the return policy change also applies in Macau, another special administrative region of China.

Article Link: Apple Not Accepting Returns or Exchanges in Hong Kong
it is not a good way for customer. as exchange or return offer atterect customar easily
 
Ummm Maybe you don't realize Hong Kong is not part of the USA. It is a part of China.

As you may or may not know, China is a COMMUNIST country and a dictatorship. Even though Hong Kong has slightly modified laws, it is still China, and Citizens (aka customers) don't have many rights. And certainly no consumer protection.

Hong Kong has a completely independent basic law to China.

Of course we have consumer protection.

https://www.consumer.org.hk/ws_en/
 
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As you may or may not know, China is a COMMUNIST country and a dictatorship. Even though Hong Kong has slightly modified laws, it is still China, and Citizens (aka customers) don't have many rights. And certainly no consumer protection.

Hong Kong does not have laws "slightly modified" from those extant in the PRC. Don't be ridiculous. Hong Kong has the English common law and its own jurisprudence completely different from that of the PRC.
 
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Hong Kong does not have laws "slightly modified" from those extant in the PRC. Don't be ridiculous. Hong Kong has the English common law and its own jurisprudence completely different from that of the PRC.

LOL, Like my Joint Venture Partners said when I was doing business there, "The laws are just on the surface".

If HK starts to have protests like similar to Tiananmen Square or the monitored HK 'elections' start to go against Bejing, you will see how independent the 'citizens' of HK really are.
 
Quite recently I read a very interesting article about LL Bean's legendary return policy. They have no limit on returns. You can literally bring something back after 40 years, completely worn out, and say, "I'd like to return this."
Well, in the UK there is a quite well-known store that pays customers money if they donate their used clothes to a charity shop. That store also has a generous returns policy. So there are people who go through the charity shops, buy all the clothes from this particular store, and take it to a store to get a full price refund. And if the sales people who have seen it all refuse a refund, they ask for a manager and shout at that manager (usually a stupid, inexperienced kid of twenty years) and get their money.
 
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