Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I do comment on the good things Apple does, but of late, decisions like this are completely baffling.
Shouldn't be too baffling. A lot of people have provide valid reasons and objective opinions. They may differ with your opinion, but keep an open mind and you might see some validity in what others think and say. Most things are not as one sided as you like to make them out to be.
 
Take this ---- policy to the courts. Customers have a right to return any product for an exchange or refund.

Don't have confidence in a market, then don't sell the device in that market.
Are you an consumer rights attorney in Hong Kong? Do you live in Hong Kong? Are you applying your Western consumer policies to an area of the world where they don't apply? Or are you sticking to your usual anti Apple posts as noted by your post history?
 
Shouldn't be too baffling. A lot of people have provide valid reasons and objective opinions. They may differ with your opinion, but keep an open mind and you might see some validity in what others think and say. Most things are not as one sided as you like to make them out to be.
Sometimes there are just correct answers, and then there are those who attempt to suggest otherwise.
[doublepost=1474030195][/doublepost]
Are you an consumer rights attorney in Hong Kong? Do you live in Hong Kong? Are you applying your Western consumer policies to an area of the world where they don't apply? Or are you sticking to your usual anti Apple posts as noted by your post history?
"Or are you sticking to your usual anti Apple posts as noted by your post history?" With respect, you haven't followed my history closely. I commend Apple when they do progressive things, and comment when they regress. It's as simple as that. Western consumer policies has nothing to do with this. It's about what Apple values as an organization. Apply a simple to follow returns policy worldwide that favors customers and doesn't treat customers as thugs and be done with it. Customers first always should be Apple's focus.
 
Sometimes there are just correct answers, and then there are those who attempt to suggest otherwise.

Oh you mean like Samsung plane screwed the pooch on Note 7. And you praising them like no tomorrow for their forced compliance with consumer protection agency. While ignoring those reporting being given hard time trying to return the dangerous Note 7.
 
You are aware that this action Apple is taking actually puts customers first, right?
No it doesn't. It limits customer's choice to return an item. That is not putting customers first no matter how you want to spin it.
[doublepost=1474031245][/doublepost]
Oh you mean like Samsung plane screwed the pooch on Note 7. And you praising them like no tomorrow for their forced compliance with consumer protection agency. While ignoring those reporting being given hard time trying to return the dangerous Note 7.
HEK, the fact that their devices has cause damage is serious, but other companies don't move as fast as Samsung has on this occasion. That aspect has to be commended.
 
Sometimes there are just correct answers, and then there are those who attempt to suggest otherwise.
[doublepost=1474030195][/doublepost]
"Or are you sticking to your usual anti Apple posts as noted by your post history?" With respect, you haven't followed my history closely. I commend Apple when they do progressive things, and comment when they regress. It's as simple as that. Western consumer policies has nothing to do with this. It's about what Apple values as an organization. Apply a simple to follow returns policy worldwide that favors customers and doesn't treat customers as thugs and be done with it. Customers first always should be Apple's focus.
Even when customers are thugs, prove it repeatedly by abusing a policy meant for true Apple consumers and not some reselling scheme. I applaud Apple for finally taking a stand against these scalpers that make it difficult for true Apple consumers to get an iPhone in timely manner.
 
Even when customers are thugs, prove it repeatedly by abusing a policy meant for true Apple consumers and not some reselling scheme. I applaud Apple for finally taking a stand against these scalpers that make it difficult for true Apple consumers to get an iPhone in timely manner.
Blinded by Apple too much to see any reasonable commonsense on a fair returns policy. Here's your applause:

x1f44f.png.pagespeed.ic.NdKA7WdxY7.png
x1f44f.png.pagespeed.ic.NdKA7WdxY7.png
x1f44f.png.pagespeed.ic.NdKA7WdxY7.png
 
No it doesn't. It limits customer's choice to return an item. That is not putting customers first no matter how you want to spin it.
By not taking this action, loyal Apple customers are negatively affected by there being less availability of product for them to buy.

The actions of the organized scalpers in HK negatively impact loyal Apple customers either way.

If Apple takes no action, customers are negatively impacted.
By taking this action, customers are negative impacted.

It's my opinion that this action will affect far fewer customers than had they taken no action at all.

So let's "spin that". This action will put more customers first than had they taken no action at all.
[doublepost=1474031989][/doublepost]
Here's your applause:
It's always fun to reach the point in the thread where you start useing crazy fonts/colors and images in you replies to distract from the point that you're out of logic-based responses that actually contribute to the conversation.
 
No it doesn't. It limits customer's choice to return an item. That is not putting customers first no matter how you want to spin it.
[doublepost=1474031245][/doublepost]
HEK, the fact that their devices has cause damage is serious, but other companies don't move as fast as Samsung has on this occasion. That aspect has to be commended.
No it doesn't. Samsung is doing the minimum they should be doing. Cleaning up a serious mess is nothing to commend. Especially when they have to. (Consumer Protection Agency).

If they were not doing the minimum required, they should be prosecuted and lambasted. At best this is a neutral situation. And there are reports that in other countries, they are not taking as swift an action. Plus there are numerous reports of people being turned away trying to return the Note 7. The support by carriers and stores selling them has been spotty.

So praise......no. Commendations for doing right thing.......no.

It's like if I shot someone, and because I call the ambulance, I am commended for doing the right thing. The second action does not absolve the first.
 
No it doesn't. Samsung is doing the minimum they should be doing. Cleaning up a serious mess is nothing to commend. Especially when they have to. (Consumer 0rotection Agency).

If they were not doing the minimum required, they should be prosecuted and lambasted. At best this is a neutral situation. And there are reports that in other countries, they are not taking as swift an action. Plus there are numerous reports of people being turned away trying to return the Note 7. The support by carriers and stores selling them has been spotty.

So praise......no. Commendations for doing right thing.......no.

It's like if I shot someone, and because I call the ambulance, I am commended for doing the right thing. The second action does not absolve the first.
Your analogies are truely frightening.
[doublepost=1474032497][/doublepost]
By not taking this action, loyal Apple customers are negatively affected by there being less availability of product for them to buy.

The actions of the organized scalpers in HK negatively impact loyal Apple customers either way.

If Apple takes no action, customers are negatively impacted.
By taking this action, customers are negative impacted.

It's my opinion that this action will affect far fewer customers than had they taken no action at all.

So let's "spin that". This action will put more customers first than had they taken no action at all.
[doublepost=1474031989][/doublepost]
It's always fun to reach the point in the thread where you start useing crazy fonts/colors and images in you replies to distract from the point that you're out of logic-based responses that actually contribute to the conversation.
Your assertions are inaccurate. I'm sure Apple could establish a simple return policy worldwide. You just don't get that, or don't want to.
I used Apple emoji, I thought you would appreciate it.
 
Your assertions are inaccurate. I'm sure Apple could establish a simple return policy worldwide. You just don't get that, or don't want to.
I used Apple emoji, I thought you would appreciate it.
My assertion was that by preventing returns in HK, Apple is making more phones available for their non-scalping customers to buy.

Therefore, this Apple policy is putting customers first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: needfx and HEK
Sometimes there are just correct answers, and then there are those who attempt to suggest otherwise.
[doublepost=1474030195][/doublepost]
"Or are you sticking to your usual anti Apple posts as noted by your post history?" With respect, you haven't followed my history closely. I commend Apple when they do progressive things, and comment when they regress. It's as simple as that. Western consumer policies has nothing to do with this. It's about what Apple values as an organization. Apply a simple to follow returns policy worldwide that favors customers and doesn't treat customers as thugs and be done with it. Customers first always should be Apple's focus.
When you speak of "rights" you speak of a set of values and policies set in regulations for a specific group within a specific jurisdiction. Rights we take for granted, for example, my rights to drive my Honda does not apply in areas of the world where driving is not allowed. Therefore Honda cannot become the adjudicator for me if I move to Saudi Arabia and want to drive yet are disallowed due to religious restrictions.

So....are you a consumer rights attorney in Hong Kong that qualifies you to comment on rights in Hong Kong?

As far as your list history, I took the time to read through them. Whereas I did not read every single post, the majority are rants and diatribes against Apple. Therefore I can safely conclude that the sample I read was qdequat representation of what you routinely post.

Apple has a right to define its policies in a country that does not have regulations to prevent it from doing so. Apple is a business first and foremost with a judiciary obligation to its stakeholders and a responsibility and regulatory mandate to comply with consumer rights. Therefore in the absence of such rights in Hong Kong its primary responsibility is to its stakeholders in view of rampant fraud and a booming black market in both genuine and counterfeit Apple products.
 
Im glad I live in the EU where I get a proper two year legal guarantee (arguably more in place like the UK), right to return stuff bought online for 30 days etc, if i change my mind and get reimbursed, and get a credit note/exchange if i buy in store.

Yes, the EU has some consumer friendly laws, but you pay for them as well in higher prices that cover the anticipated costs associated with those laws.
 
Here in Germany you cannot return the item either if you bought it in store. You are supposed to try it out at the store. Now if you bought it online, thats a different story
German here: yes, you can, but you can't expect them to give you your money back, they are merely obligated to exchange it or give you a voucher.

And your wording makes it sound like it's unheard of to return anything in stores, some stores do only have a policy that complies with the law, some will go beyond that and offer a full refund as well. (as in, cash/whatever form of payment)

Glassed Silver:mac
 
SO WHAT. If they aren't opened or damaged, why not accept the returns. It's not Apple's business what anyone does with an iPhone once it has been purchased.

Hairdryer and shrink wrap. Super easy. Put in a rock of the appropriate weight, rewrap, return, score!

Then the next person buys a rock, returns it demanding money back. No idea if it was due to the first person returning fake product or the second person lying about what they purchased.

So, to avoid that, they need to open all the packages, verify the goods (possibly even powering up to check functionality and serial number). Then somehow reset it to new state again. Then there is a question if it can be sold as new or refurb.

USA return policies are a luxury and do increase the cost of goods sold.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HEK
When you speak of "rights" you speak of a set of values and policies set in regulations for a specific group within a specific jurisdiction. Rights we take for granted, for example, my rights to drive my Honda does not apply in areas of the world where driving is not allowed. Therefore Honda cannot become the adjudicator for me if I move to Saudi Arabia and want to drive yet are disallowed due to religious restrictions.

So....are you a consumer rights attorney in Hong Kong that qualifies you to comment on rights in Hong Kong?

As far as your list history, I took the time to read through them. Whereas I did not read every single post, the majority are rants and diatribes against Apple. Therefore I can safely conclude that the sample I read was qdequat representation of what you routinely post.

Apple has a right to define its policies in a country that does not have regulations to prevent it from doing so. Apple is a business first and foremost with a judiciary obligation to its stakeholders and a responsibility and regulatory mandate to comply with consumer rights. Therefore in the absence of such rights in Hong Kong its primary responsibility is to its stakeholders in view of rampant fraud and a booming black market in both genuine and counterfeit Apple products.
It's not an either or proposition. Apple can have a fair returns policy and prevent fraudulent returns in HK. This new approach is simply coarse and nasty. If Apple can not figure out how to operate in HK with its resources, then get out.
 
When you speak of "rights" you speak of a set of values and policies set in regulations for a specific group within a specific jurisdiction. Rights we take for granted, for example, my rights to drive my Honda does not apply in areas of the world where driving is not allowed. Therefore Honda cannot become the adjudicator for me if I move to Saudi Arabia and want to drive yet are disallowed due to religious restrictions.

So....are you a consumer rights attorney in Hong Kong that qualifies you to comment on rights in Hong Kong?

As far as your list history, I took the time to read through them. Whereas I did not read every single post, the majority are rants and diatribes against Apple. Therefore I can safely conclude that the sample I read was qdequat representation of what you routinely post.

Apple has a right to define its policies in a country that does not have regulations to prevent it from doing so. Apple is a business first and foremost with a judiciary obligation to its stakeholders and a responsibility and regulatory mandate to comply with consumer rights. Therefore in the absence of such rights in Hong Kong its primary responsibility is to its stakeholders in view of rampant fraud and a booming black market in both genuine and counterfeit Apple products.

Put that to bed right quick. Nicely phrased.

In reviewing past posts, my sense is their is an agenda present favoring a certain manufacturer of phones. Obviously I have no concrete evidence. But my duck sensor is going off wildly.

Duck sensor? You ask.

Yes my duck sensor, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, looks like a duck, it probably a duck. DNA testing not withstanding.
 
My assertion was that by preventing returns in HK, Apple is making more phones available for their non-scalping customers to buy.

Therefore, this Apple policy is putting customers first.
I read between the lines and got that. Non-scalping customers can buy phones that they can't return. Makes zero sense. The reaction is too broad and unrefined.
[doublepost=1474033533][/doublepost]
But accurate and to the point.
Not at all, sadly.
 
The reason is simple.

The majority of iPhones sold in Hong Kong in the early days / weeks after launch are immediately sold to traders who would then smuggle them across the border to China. There is a price premium between the retail price in Hong Kong and the retail price in China, not to mention the enormous demand in China that the supply from official retailers within China can't meet, which may drive up the black market price even more.

This has been happening since the iPhone 4 cycle. Yes. iPhone 4 cycle. 6 years ago. Back when China wasn't even on the initial list of countries where the iPhone was available but Hong Kong usually was. Imagine the supply intended for a city of 7 million trying to meet the demand of a country of 1.3 billion.

By providing a generous return policy in the past, Apple was providing a safety net for those seeking a quick return flipping iPhones. In case the demand from China didn't materialize, as was the case for the past 2 cycles, people trying to flip can return the iPhones to Apple for a full refund, risk free. By eliminating this return policy, then there is now a cost to these quick flipping trades, which is actually a good thing.

So don't offer it at initial launch in HK then, much better than to screw over legit customers in HK.

Glassed Silver:mac
 
Hairdryer and shrink wrap. Super easy. Put in a rock of the appropriate weight, rewrap, return, score!

Then the next person buys a rock, returns it demanding money back. No idea if it was due to the first person returning fake product or the second person lying about what they purchased.

So, to avoid that, they need to open all the packages, verify the goods (possibly even powering up to check functionality and serial number). Then somehow reset it to new state again. Then there is a question if it can be sold as new or refurb.

USA return policies are a luxury and do increase the cost of goods sold.
There are secure tamper proof seals if you weren't aware.
Retail 101, returned goods should always be opened, even if they appear sealed, to check whether there is a brick in the box or the actual device. It's a no brainer.
 
So don't offer it at initial launch in HK then, much better than to screw over legit customers in HK.

Glassed Silver:mac
Makes no sense at all. Screw over legitimate HK customers, denying them phone promised on initial date. Your lack of logic and circular arguements defeats your point.
 
I read between the lines and got that. Non-scalping customers can buy phones that they can't return. Makes zero sense.
And Apple has the power to bend that policy on a case-by-base basis. "Surprise and delight". Forum here is full of examples of when an Apple Store broke official policy to appease the customer.

So scalpers in HK can't return 50 iPhone 7s in Rose Gold because Rose Gold didn't sell on the black-market in China, and Apple Store managers are able to assist individual customers that have issues on a case-by-base basis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HEK
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.