Apple noticed low adoption / is strong arming iOS 26+

[Dylan33x]

I don't see it. It's a slide on a keynote, sure, but it could just as easily be about how many retail stores they opened or how much carbon offsets they purchased. They will brag about any number that benefits them. They don't get any revenue from people updating their OS. If you want to stay on 18 or 17 or 12, fine. It doesn't cost them anything. They are already focused on 27 at this point. They just might need a different slide for this year's keynotes. Maybe one on how many more Siri queries people did with the new LLM Siri.

I agree that it seemingly shouldn’t matter to them, but they clearly care about it. If it’s a slide on a presentation, it’s because they care about it, or care about presenting it.

It’s a free product seemingly, so the fact they report the number is what shows they care, since there’s no revenue growth directly correlated.

But then when you think deeper it makes sense they care about it, since Apple’s entire foundation is vertical integration with hardware and software, combined with maintaining control of the software experience.

 

[thadoggfather]

You're still making an assumption that this is what would happen

So let's review and evaluate:
18.7.3 does not say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' in release notes for iPhone 16 and iOS 26 capable devices, or any device period.
18.7.4 does say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' but is exclusively signed for legacy devices.

Your best guess, logically, is that 18.7.3 on iPhone 16 will not expire with Apple services.
...And you would not consider that reaching, but my concern is?


--

Perhaps we can narrow down that if iPhone 16 on 18.7.3 (what will be a 12 month old software version) does not work with iMessage on January 2027, that would be worthy of condemning as bad practice, right?

 

[macaddiict]

I hope that Apple releases a small iOS update for other devices before the end of the year to avoid the forced updates to keep basic functionality. It will be pretty telling about the company if they don't. iPhones SE 2 didn't get an 18.7.x update, but still work fine. If they expect people with these devices that barely handle 18.x well to update to 26 just to get iMessage... oof.

 

[Paddle1]

Because there's no evidance of that

There's definitely evidence, but we will have to wait for proof.

 

[kody137]

So let's review and evaluate:
18.7.3 does not say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' in release notes for iPhone 16 and iOS 26 capable devices, or any device period.
18.7.4 does say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' but is exclusively signed for legacy devices.

Your best guess, logically, is that 18.7.3 on iPhone 16 will not expire with Apple services.
...And you would not consider that reaching, but my concern is?


--

Perhaps we can narrow down that if iPhone 16 on 18.7.3 (what will be a 12 month old software version) does not work with iMessage on January 2027, that would be worthy of condemning as bad practice, right?

Actually yes! (We might finally be finding some common ground here lmao). Because you're saying "That means this is going to break so I'm mad NOW", and I am saying "We don't know that, there are many numbers of solutions Apple could put in place between now and then. Wait until there is something to be mad about to be mad". I would totally be in your court if you choose to keep your iPhone on iOS 18 and Apple just decideds to turn off key services for you, but I find that incredibly unlikely.

 

[kody137]

There's definitely evidence, but we will have to wait for proof.

Can you provide any? I'd be interested in seeing it

 

[macaddiict]

Apple just decideds to turn off key services for you

If you have a password that expires at the end of Dec 2026 and try to use it in January 2027, what do you think would happen?
Certificates = password
No one is "turning off key services" you just cannot connect

Even web devs struggle with understanding certificates, but this is how they work. If it's expired, it's not valid.

 

[HouseLannister]

Perhaps we can narrow down that if iPhone 16 on 18.7.3 (what will be a 12 month old software version) does not work with iMessage on January 2027

Isn't 18.7.3 still a beta on an iPhone 16? Wait for the GM 🙂

 

[kody137]

If you have a password that expires at the end of Dec 2026 and try to use it in January 2027, what do you think would happen?
Certificates = password
No one is "turning off key services" you just cannot connect

Even web devs struggle with understanding certificates, but this is how they work. If it's expired, it's not valid.

Well you don't have to take "turning off key services" literal to mean someone at Apple is pushing an off button

 

[sleeptodream]

Did you read what you quoted? The OSes were originally going to stop at the end of 2026. They have been renewed beyond that now. That's a good thing. Nothing "scummy" going on here.

Why would iOS 18 stop working after 2026? That’s quite unusual

 

[Paddle1]

Can you provide any? I'd be interested in seeing it

1. The past precedent that they let the certificate expire on iOS 6 breaking features and made people install iOS 7 to fix it.

2. The iOS 18 update that prevents the expiring certificate is unavailable on these devices.

One thing that is different this time is that they now have the ability to provide two different upgrade paths so they could address it, we just have to wait and see.

 

[macaddiict]

Well you don't have to take "turning off key services" literal to mean someone at Apple is pushing an off button

Helpful information gets lost in the mix when we don't use accurate phrases or descriptions, and it can lead to confusion.

I hope  releases another round of updates for devices like the iPhone SE 2 that really struggle with iOS 26, but they didn't extend iOS 6 certificates when iOS 7 was available to devices in a similar scenario (even the fact iOS 7 was a huge visual update some people wanted to avoid)

Doesn't mean I'll update and iOS 18.x devices before required, and still hope that Apple comes around and releases a small update to avoid forcing updates to maintain basic services like messaging. So far I have no need for iOS 26 and my experience with it was so bad I'd rather avoid it as long as possible.

 

[sleeptodream]

Yes, they discontinued iCloud support for devices running iOS 8 and earlier in 2024.
Additionally, there are scattered reports across the net that certain versions of iOS 6 do not support FaceTime anymore, not surprising at all seeing is that OS is *looks and gasps in fear* from 14 years ago.
There are also other bits and pieces of older operating systems that have been rendered unusable.
Reminders on iOS 12 and earlier refuses to sync with anything newer, the Home app after February 10 of this year will no longer work on versions older than iOS 16.2, etc and so on.
Old software is old and starts to fall apart after a while, not new. News at 11.

This isn’t the same as expiring iOS 18 in 2027, when it was only replaced in 2025. I had an iPod touch I kept on iOS 7 that had everything still working up until recently, and multiple other devices on older OS’s that still work

If they really expire everything except these few OS’s with the new updates, that seems like a huge change in policy

 

[thelion7]

Tell me how you turned Apple providing updates to devices that are over 10+ years old into some conspiracy that Apple is trying to force people to upgrade their software.

Apple did not anticipate that iPhone 5s and 6 models from 2014/2025 would still be out in the wild in large numbers enough to support them beyond the original support window, hence needing to update the certificates to allow those customers to continue using Apple services such as iMessage and FaceTime.

I agree, Apple can be snakey with soft locking features on devices perfectly capable of running the feature.

Example, the hover feature on iPad Pros.

However, if I was forced to use a 10 year old or any phone out of iOS generational release support.

I’d take an iPhone any day.

Because although these 5s’s don’t get features they get security and general usability features.

Such as iMessage and FaceTime.

Of which we both know keeping these certificates up to date is little effort on Apples part.

If they decided to allow a simple certificate break an old phone they’d burn a lot of customer goodwill.

Because these users on 10 year+ devices have to upgrade eventually, so best to give them a reason to pick Apple again.

 

[thadoggfather]

iOS 26 is still being avoided by some peo… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

iPhone manual update to 18.7.4 - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com

^ Apple community forums are conveying the same

About iPadOS 18 Updates - Apple Support

iPadOS 18 brings a big update designed for the distinct capabilities of iPad and new ways to get things done that have been reimagined with Apple Pencil. Customize your iPad further by arranging your Home Screen, Lock Screen, and Control Center in all-new ways, and Photos delivers the biggest...

support.apple.com

^ Interestingly and confusingly both 18.7.3 and 18.7.4 according to this support KB article were restricted to:

iPhone XS, iPhone XS Max, iPhone XR, iPad Pro 13-inch, iPad Pro 12.9-inch 3rd generation and later, iPad Pro 11-inch 1st generation and later, iPad Air 3rd generation and later, iPad 7th generation and later, and iPad mini 5th generation and later

So it’s like only legacy iPhones but some iPads that are iOS 26 capable were allowed as well for 18.7.3 at least on paper. Given that and only .4 changelog mentions the cert being renewed despite same breadth of supported devices (which I question given : I was able to update 18.4.1 to 18.7.3 using iOS 18 dev beta option on my m4 iPad Pro. Nothing will make 18.7.4 show though)

..All elements combined seems like Apple is being shady here and locking people out from iMessage starting next year on iOS 18, as I suspected from the jump.

 

[-BigMac-]

I would just like the option to roll back to iOS18 tbh😓

 

[FeliApple]

So let's review and evaluate:
18.7.3 does not say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' in release notes for iPhone 16 and iOS 26 capable devices, or any device period.
18.7.4 does say 'updated cert to not expire January 2027' but is exclusively signed for legacy devices.

Your best guess, logically, is that 18.7.3 on iPhone 16 will not expire with Apple services.
...And you would not consider that reaching, but my concern is?


--

Perhaps we can narrow down that if iPhone 16 on 18.7.3 (what will be a 12 month old software version) does not work with iMessage on January 2027, that would be worthy of condemning as bad practice, right?
View attachment 2600143

Not a bad practice.

Deliberately malicious.

If adoption numbers are truly low, doing this now is pathetic.

If Apple forces my iOS 18 combo (iPhone 16 Plus/11th-gen iPad) out next year, I’ll no longer be an iOS user.

 

[HouseLannister]

No one has to do anything now. Until 27.2 is out in December, we do not know if people will even want to stay on iOS 18 at that point. It could be a game changer and then all this doom and gloom seems wasted. But if iOS 27 is so broken or Apple has so lost the way, and the only solution is to stay on something two years behind. And if that option has been crippled by Apple and not extended, then it is time to switch to Android. Vote with your dollar.

 

[BigBlur]

This isn’t the same as expiring iOS 18 in 2027, when it was only replaced in 2025.

Except iOS 18 isn't exactly expiring in 2027. It'll continue to work just fine on iPhones that can't upgrade to anything newer. Same goes for older devices as long as they're on their latest supported version.

For newer iPhones that can upgrade to iOS 26 or iOS 27...well, it sucks, but they'll have to upgrade. It has always been like this. Nothing new to see here and has nothing to do with iOS 26's low adoption.


Where I work, we have our certificates valid for five year intervals and renew them one year before expiration. (Example: cert is valid from 1/1/2021 to 12/31/2025, and would be renewed in 2025 to be valid from 1/1/2025 to 12/31/2029.) It's too costly and adds extra overhead if we were to generate/renew certificates every year. I'm assuming Apple does something similar. If this certificate was generated several years ago, I highly doubt they had the foresight to know iOS 26 was going to bomb and that they need to end support for iOS 18 early to force people off it. 🙄

Now I'm curious...can we view this certificate somewhere to see how long Apple does their validity period? Has it been set to expire in 2027 for many years? I'm assuming it'd be possible to extract it out of the IPSW if we know where to look.

 

[FeliApple]

Except iOS 18 isn't exactly expiring in 2027. It'll continue to work just fine on iPhones that can't upgrade to anything newer. Same goes for older devices as long as they're on their latest supported version.

For newer iPhones that can upgrade to iOS 26 or iOS 27...well, it sucks, but they'll have to upgrade. It has always been like this. Nothing new to see here and has nothing to do with iOS 26's low adoption.

False. iMessage/FaceTime/other apps have ALWAYS worked on older iOS versions, and still do.

I have and use iOS 5, 6, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 18.

I only have ONE device fully updated (an iPhone 5c on iOS 10). iMessage/FaceTime/etc works everywhere.

I tried it on my Air 5 running iPadOS 15 five minutes ago, and on my iPhone 8 running iOS 14, and on my iPhone Xʀ running iOS 12. I tried it on my iPod Touch 4G running native iOS 5.0.1.

If this garbage breaks it everywhere, it’ll be the first time.

I’m a little hopeful because the iOS 6 thing did NOT break it on my iPod Touch on iOS 5: it still works last I tried. We’ll see.

 

[FatLouie]

Not a bad practice.

Deliberately malicious.

If adoption numbers are truly low, doing this now is pathetic.

If Apple forces my iOS 18 combo (iPhone 16 Plus/11th-gen iPad) out next year, I’ll no longer be an iOS user.

I went from a 15+ to an OPPO Find X9 Pro due to iOS 26. My iPad M4 Pro is on 18.7.3. If it goes teats up next year, it will be replaced by an Android tablet. That leaves my Studio...I am already on Debian, so if Apple really wants to be a clown show, I can be completely out of the Apple Prison Garden.

Never back your user base against a wall when they have options. I have options.

 

[LiquidGlassfan]

in the iOS 12.5.8, iOS 15.8.6, and iOS 18.7.4 release notes, Apple says:



—

The implications of this update are insane and scummy tbh. essentially anyone on a device that can support iOS 26 will be forced to update to a later version by January 2027 or apple services will stop working. And you can’t update to these newest versions with latest certificate *unless* you have a device that only goes up to 12/15/18 geez.

So if you’re staying behind purposefully on say iOS 18, even the last one you could grab 18.7.3, you only have a year before you can either OTA to some extended support EOL iOS 26 security update or presumably iOS 27 by then since we are talking about Jan 2027 deadline

It says 'after January 2027' so the service will keep working after 2027

 

[sleeptodream]

Except iOS 18 isn't exactly expiring in 2027. It'll continue to work just fine on iPhones that can't upgrade to anything newer. Same goes for older devices as long as they're on their latest supported version.

For newer iPhones that can upgrade to iOS 26 or iOS 27...well, it sucks, but they'll have to upgrade. It has always been like this. Nothing new to see here and has nothing to do with iOS 26's low adoption.


Where I work, we have our certificates valid for five year intervals and renew them one year before expiration. (Example: cert is valid from 1/1/2021 to 12/31/2025, and would be renewed in 2025 to be valid from 1/1/2025 to 12/31/2029.) It's too costly and adds extra overhead if we were to generate/renew certificates every year. I'm assuming Apple does something similar. If this certificate was generated several years ago, I highly doubt they had the foresight to know iOS 26 was going to bomb and that they need to end support for iOS 18 early to force people off it. 🙄

Now I'm curious...can we view this certificate somewhere to see how long Apple does their validity period? Has it been set to expire in 2027 for many years? I'm assuming it'd be possible to extract it out of the IPSW if we know where to look.

It hasn’t always been like this. I collect iPods and iPhones and have many that are on older versions of iOS than what they support. That was one thing I loved about Apple. Even my 2G iPod worked with my Mac… up until Tahoe 🙄 I have a 5c on iOS 7 too, still worked last time I tried maybe a year or two ago. Synced my photos and everything. Most iPhones I’ve ever had I typically kept at whichever version it has when I get a new one, for the nostalgia, so most aren’t fully up to date

I don’t think it necessarily has to do with iOS 26’s adoption rate, but it is unusual, and makes me wonder if something is in iOS 26 that, say, Apple, Google or the government would benefit from

Edit: Posting this from my iPhone Air on 26, I just want all my old devices to continue working, please, Apple 😇

 

[baconcat_8964]

The implications of this update are insane and scummy tbh.

I think that's essential for SSL connection certificate.

And, why would you assume Apple won't update certificates for older OS next year?

 

[I7guy]

I went from a 15+ to an OPPO Find X9 Pro due to iOS 26. My iPad M4 Pro is on 18.7.3. If it goes teats up next year, it will be replaced by an Android tablet. That leaves my Studio...I am already on Debian, so if Apple really wants to be a clown show, I can be completely out of the Apple Prison Garden.

Never back your user base against a wall when they have options. I have options.

And you should vote with your $$$. That’s how one sends a message. YOU the consumer has to be happy.