Apple noticed low adoption / is strong arming iOS 26+

[Abydos]

oh the difference between conspiracy and science, conspiracy goes from observation to inference to hypothesis, science goes from observation to inference to hypothesis to further observation to test the hypothesis and modify the hypothesis as necessary (or discard it ) such a subtle difference

 

[Parowdy]

Sure. Because Apple knew when they signed the certificates for iOS 12 and 15 some years ago that their iOS release in 2025 would be a debacle.
I’m sorry, I really don’t understand how prolonging the useful life of certain older iOS devices is linked to the shabby release we call iOS 26 or any attempt from Apple at pushing users to a new device.

 

[zeus423]

Isn't 18.7.3 still a beta on an iPhone 16? Wait for the GM

Still waiting for the ability to install 18.7.3 beta on my iPhone 16. I'm stuck at 18.7.2.

 

[Nekronos]

Tell me how you turned Apple providing updates to devices that are over 10+ years old into some conspiracy that Apple is trying to force people to upgrade their software.

Apple did not anticipate that iPhone 5s and 6 models from 2014/2025 would still be out in the wild in large numbers enough to support them beyond the original support window, hence needing to update the certificates to allow those customers to continue using Apple services such as iMessage and FaceTime.

Apple wanting people to upgrade is hardly a conspiracy, it's readily apparent that is a driving force in their decisions. This is true from both a hardware and software standpoint. You could also argue they don't want compatibility to restrict development direction, security or privacy advancement, etc. but the profit motive is too big to ignore.

Apple has historically not been a company that prioritizes continued device operability across versions - this is painfully obviously relative to Microsoft.

 

[PatrixUSA]

The implications of this update are insane and scummy tbh. essentially anyone on a device that can support iOS 26 will be forced to update to a later version by January 2027 or apple services will stop working. And you can’t update to these newest versions with latest certificate *unless* you have a device that only goes up to 12/15/18 geez.

So if you’re staying behind purposefully on say iOS 18, even the last one you could grab 18.7.3, you only have a year before you can either OTA to some extended support EOL iOS 26 security update or presumably iOS 27 by then since we are talking about Jan 2027 deadline

So... having read through the thread and trying to decipher, is what you're posting that when JAN 2027 arrvies, apple services won't function on an any iPhone capable of running iOS 26 that isn't already on iOS 26?

...makes me wonder if something is in iOS 26 that, say, Apple, Google or the government would benefit from...

i do often wonder if some of these tech "advancements" (ai, chat bots, face id, etc) are truly for our benefit (the end customer), or for their benefit...

 

[Wolfpup]

Tell me how you turned Apple providing updates to devices that are over 10+ years old into some conspiracy that Apple is trying to force people to upgrade their software.

Apple did not anticipate that iPhone 5s and 6 models from 2014/2025 would still be out in the wild in large numbers enough to support them beyond the original support window, hence needing to update the certificates to allow those customers to continue using Apple services such as iMessage and FaceTime.

Yeah, this seems like a good thing, and I still don’t get how people think os updates are a conspiracy.

Like update your devices! If at all possible replace them if they can’t run the newest thing!

It’s more dangerous than ever not to.

Granted, everything but windows breaks compatibility constantly (and windows isn’t perfect), but it is what it is.

 

[BigBlur]

So... having read through the thread and trying to decipher, is what you're posting that when JAN 2027 arrvies, apple services won't function on an any iPhone capable of running iOS 26?

No... The theory is that if you're using an iOS/iPadOS version that is older than the device's latest supported version, you'll be forced to upgrade in order to continue using iMessage, FaceTime, and device activation after January 2027.

Examples:

• An iPhone 16 still running iOS 18 would be forced to upgrade to iOS 27 (assuming 26 is no longer signed).
• An iPhone XR still running iOS 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, or 17 would be forced to upgrade to iOS 18.7.4.
• An iPhone 8 still running iOS 11, 12, 13, 14, or 15 would be forced to upgrade to iOS 16.7.13.
• An iPhone 7 running iOS 10, 11, 12, 13, or 14 would be forced to upgrade to iOS 15.8.6.

Again, this is just the theory. We don't know if that will actually be the case yet.

 

[d4cloo]

iOS 26 isn’t that bad, set aside some ****** UX for apps such as Safari.
Once you dial down the Liquid Glass, it’s okay.
It would be an entirely different matter if we’d see this behavior for macOS. Tahoe is a disaster of UI errors, crappy design and ****** implementation. A smorgasbord of incompetence, Tahoe is.

 

[PatrixUSA]

No... The theory is that if you're using an iOS/iPadOS version that is older than the device's latest supported version, you'll be forced to upgrade in order to continue using iMessage, FaceTime, and device activation after January 2027.

...and this is what confuses me... as i think we posted the same thing, just using different words lol =P

...is what you're posting that when JAN 2027 arrives, apple services won't function on an any iPhone capable of running iOS 26 that isn't already on iOS 26?

right? ...and understood just a theory at this point.

 

[PatrixUSA]

iOS 26 isn’t that bad, set aside some ****** UX for apps such as Safari.

unless not keen on stepping into the apple ai abyss... which we all know is inevitable, but there are those of us who like to put off the inevitable for as long as possible lol...

 

[BigBlur]

...and this is what confuses me... as i think we posted the same thing, just using different words lol =P

right? ...and understood just a theory at this point.

Sure, we're on the same page, but you had originally written something else (that I quoted), which had a different meaning. I guess I didn't see your edit by the time I replied.

 

[sleeptodream]

what did I just read? Dude maybe you need to use AI to understand what apple is doing; honesty the focus should be on the fact they are updating and still supporting super old phones still. who else does that in the market today ?

It’s just the fact that iOS 18 is lumped in with the others with the certs expiring so soon. It’s not cool. If it was just updates for 12 and 15 I don’t think there would be any suspicion

So... having read through the thread and trying to decipher, is what you're posting that when JAN 2027 arrvies, apple services won't function on an any iPhone capable of running iOS 26 that isn't already on iOS 26?

i do often wonder if some of these tech "advancements" (ai, chat bots, face id, etc) are truly for our benefit (the end customer), or for their benefit...

That is what it sounds like, based on the 18.7.4 release notes, but I guess maybe we won’t be sure until that date rolls around

 

[sleeptodream]

iOS 26 isn’t that bad, set aside some ****** UX for apps such as Safari.
Once you dial down the Liquid Glass, it’s okay.
It would be an entirely different matter if we’d see this behavior for macOS. Tahoe is a disaster of UI errors, crappy design and ****** implementation. A smorgasbord of incompetence, Tahoe is.

Yeah, maybe Apple needs to stop using Claude to help them code and go back to using the experience of their engineers and designers

I use Apple products because they’ve always been the most human/organic. If Claude is writing code or debugging for them they’re taking out some of the human element anyway, and I’m not a fan of that regardless of the outcome

 

[Marvin_nz]

Yeah, maybe Apple needs to stop using Claude to help them code and go back to using the experience of their engineers and designers

I use Apple products because they’ve always been the most human/organic. If Claude is doing the heavy lifting for them they’re taking out some of the human element anyway, and I’m not a fan of that regardless of the outcome

Apple is ant using Claude to help them code Even saying that shows you have zero understanding of what is being said about their AI use. maybe a little too much cool-aid has been consumedly you over the years. do you even have the understanding of the code that goes into this things ?

 

[seek3r]

in the iOS 12.5.8, iOS 15.8.6, and iOS 18.7.4 release notes, Apple says:



—

The implications of this update are insane and scummy tbh. essentially anyone on a device that can support iOS 26 will be forced to update to a later version by January 2027 or apple services will stop working. And you can’t update to these newest versions with latest certificate *unless* you have a device that only goes up to 12/15/18 geez.

So if you’re staying behind purposefully on say iOS 18, even the last one you could grab 18.7.3, you only have a year before you can either OTA to some extended support EOL iOS 26 security update or presumably iOS 27 by then since we are talking about Jan 2027 deadline

It's become standard to use shorter cert lifecycles across the industry, this isnt Apple being scummy, it's them adopting good practices. I suspect they'll update it next year with another 1 year cert

 

[maika1305]

Does tapping the "Update Now" button cause that much fuss to you guys? The only inconvenience I could think of, besides not being able to use your phone for like what - 10 minutes, is that you have little space left on your phone. If that's so, either connect it to a computer and flash the downloaded firmware onto the phone, or ignore the update. Problem solved!

Such a first world thing to complain about

 

[FeliApple]

Does tapping the "Update Now" button cause that much fuss to you guys? The only inconvenience I could think of, besides not being able to use your phone for like what - 10 minutes, is that you have little space left on your phone. If that's so, either connect it to a computer and flash the downloaded firmware onto the phone, or ignore the update. Problem solved!

Such a first world thing to complain about

Ridiculous, abhorrent viewpoint. I keep devices forever as secondary devices and iOS updates decrease device quality, impacting performance and battery life.

If you buy every year you’ll never care, but even if I upgrade I keep devices for years on end.

I have two iPhone 6s. One on iOS 10 and one on iOS 13. The one on iOS 13 (which is better than iOS 15), has 40% as much battery life as the one on iOS 10. I tried it as recently as 2024 as a main iPhone just for the sake of it and I had to charge by 2 pm, whereas the one on iOS 10 is a full-day iPhone.

I am one of the most efficient users of this entire forum. Light use, efficient settings (all power drain settings disabled), low brightness, light apps, etc. And I was running out of battery by 2pm. There comes a point in which a device updated enough can be rendered unusable.

I upgraded from an iPhone Xʀ on iOS 12 to my current 16 Plus on iOS 18. Updating the Xʀ to iOS 18 would’ve MASSIVELY reduced usage quality.

Apple has NEVER forced an update like this (if it happens). Devs were the pathetic ones who removed compatibility, but this has never happened. If they do it, they’ll force endless updates.

Battery life will eventually be halved. That’s just what iOS updates do, especially now with iOS 26, it is a massive power drain.

Acting like it has no consequences is ridiculous.

 

[Head_Unit]

people who would like to have 18.7.4

I can personally tell you Apple doesn't give a $#@& about tiny minorities of users. One of their chief engineers told me that (not in those words duh). We were working on iPod development and she said some things are in the settings menu, others things you just can't do. Apple is not concerned with fringe users period.

Which is actually how you should run a business, the old 80/20 rules. Focus on what gets you $$$$$$ which is NOT tweako use cases. Believe me I'm a tweako user sometimes of many things but I accept that technology is what it is and sometimes simply does not do what I want and/or in a way I want to do it.

If Apple is forcing people to upgrade well that was only a matter of time. Microsoft to follow if they aren't already. The government after that, forcing us to chip implants to control our behavior for the benefit of our kleptocratic overlords.

 

[Cape Dave]

So... having read through the thread and trying to decipher, is what you're posting that when JAN 2027 arrvies, apple services won't function on an any iPhone capable of running iOS 26 that isn't already on iOS 26?

i do often wonder if some of these tech "advancements" (ai, chat bots, face id, etc) are truly for our benefit (the end customer), or for their benefit...

You speak the truth. How is giving me stuff I do not want (and will NEVER use) beneficial to ME?

 

[burgman]

You speak the truth. How is giving me stuff I do not want (and will NEVER use) beneficial to ME?

Painful reality check, It's never about you in a universe of millions upon millions of "Me's" no matter the situation, deal with it.

 

[sleeptodream]

Apple is ant using Claude to help them code Even saying that shows you have zero understanding of what is being said about their AI use. maybe a little too much cool-aid has been consumedly you over the years. do you even have the understanding of the code that goes into this things ?

What are they using Claude for then?

I’m working on a CS degree, so I have a bit of an idea but obviously not an expert. I’ve used AI to help me code and debug, so I’m familiar from that perspective

 

[Cape Dave]

Painful reality check, It's never about you in a universe of millions upon millions of "Me's" no matter the situation, deal with it.

You deal with it.

 

[Marvin_nz]

What are they using Claude for then?

I’m working on a CS degree, so I have a bit of an idea but obviously not an expert. I’ve used AI to help me code and debug, so I’m familiar from that perspective

What are they using Claude for then?

I’m working on a CS degree, so I have a bit of an idea but obviously not an expert. I’ve used AI to help me code and debug, so I’m familiar from that perspective

Ah ok, so this I can speak on a bit as my brother works in a power management team. so I asked him directly. He said it's not used for coding at all. It's actually quite limited use in the dev teams and more used to track and analyze feedback and large scale user usage patterns etc for their own products and other companies products and used as an early test system before closed door user testing and wider user testing of ideas, its now being used as a benchmark tool to check progress of LLMs and other such AI stuff. He was sure it's used in other ways but as everyone knows apple is very Siloed. Coding using it is a big no no. having used it for code myself honestly even lasts models it seems to code like a kid more than an actually trained engineer.

Edit: just got told offer sharing that level of detail. oh well its already out there

 

[code-m]

One has to wonder if this is satire. Android folk would like their devices to get the latest OS upgrade like what’s Apple customers have had for ages. Yet Apple customers feel entitled that whatever OS version their prefer it should be updated and supported until their devices fall apart.

One cannot make this stuff up, Samsung is offering up 7 years of updates, I believe Google OS offering a bit less and others only 3 years of OS upgrades. This is contingent of the hardware is able to support it.

Granted you may dislike LiquidGlass but it’s better to see it as a glass half full vice half empty.

 

[montuori]

The implications of this update are insane and scummy

Or perhaps the current root Apple CA cert expires on 1 Feb 27? (Spoiler: it does.) 18.7.4 received the same update. There is nothing to see here other than Apple doing the responsible thing and allowing an entire year to apply the patch upgrades before stuff stops working.

(Edit: this is the Developer ID CA root certificate; Apple has other CAs.)