Apple Now Faces 26+ Lawsuits for 'Purposefully' or 'Secretly' Slowing Down Older iPhones

[Puddled]

I don't understand why people are willing to sue Apple because of their phone slowing down. For that, I might as well sue Comcast and AT&T for slow internet coverage while doing my homework. Things like this will happen so might as well get used to it. Better yet, sue every company out there for slow traffic, slow waiting lines at stores, slow gas pumps, and slow cookers (lol).

How old is your current iphone? and how long to you keep them for before you buy new?

 

[Swampthing]

They just don't teach kids to be responsible for their own decisions anymore.

I helped fix two older "slowed down" iPhones, not due to an advanced technical degree, but merely by reading some simple troubleshooting hints right here on the MacRumors forums.

Here we go again. The sidestep shuffle. You didn’t help anything because Apple caused the slowdown in the software. A hard reset wasn’t going to change that. Your “mad skillz” won’t change it either. Denying the problem is there is still obviously the biggest problem in these forums.

Or do you think you found a way around replacing the battery “with simple troubleshooting hints” that Apple should know about?

You should put out a fully detailed press release so all the lawsuits can be dropped because everything can be fixed with “simple troubleshooting hints.” Please save us and stop all the madness in the courts.

 

[Mastersetter]

Apple got caught out and it's about time, lets hope they do the right thing and introduce an option for this 'feature'

 

[r.harris1]

Here we go again. The sidestep shuffle. You didn’t help anything because Apple caused the slowdown in the software. A hard reset wasn’t going to change that. Your “mad skillz” won’t change it either. Denying the problem is there is still obviously the biggest problem in these forums.

I think the biggest problem in these forums is ascribing every slowdown problem to a power management release that Apple did explain, but not well, and didn't handle well either, but that everyone thinks is some sort of apocalypse. There are a lot of reasons for slowness, from crappy apps to bugs in iOS not related to power management. Another major problem in this thread is people not bothering to think for themselves and to actually try troubleshooting the way @firewood did. It often works wonders. @firewood told you that the experience (slowness) was solved and yet we see exhibited here the third major problem in this thread: debating like school children (no offense to schoolchildren).

Let's go talk about something real like that silly new-ish butterfly keyboard of theirs, which is a frustrating bit of kit.

 

[Koalazub]

I think the biggest problem in these forums is ascribing every slowdown problem to a power management release that Apple did explain, but not well, and didn't handle well either, but that everyone thinks is some sort of apocalypse. There are a lot of reasons for slowness, from crappy apps to bugs in iOS not related to power management. Another major problem in this thread is people not bothering to think for themselves and to actually try troubleshooting the way @firewood did. It often works wonders. @firewood told you that the experience (slowness) was solved and yet we see exhibited here the third major problem in this thread: debating like school children (no offense to schoolchildren).

Let's go talk about something real like that silly new-ish butterfly keyboard of theirs, which is a frustrating bit of kit.

Debating is all well and good when people are informed, but a lot of the premises for arguing on this topic aren’t substantiated. The issue regarding transparency still hasn’t been reified and people are still thinking that ‘quality’ is the culprit. It’s 33 pages of garrulousness.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

[doublepost=1515345306][/doublepost]
Normal business practice to meet consumer demands for slimmer/thinner/lighter televisions, laptops, tablets, and mobile devices.

Firewood dude. You conveniently snipped my post to fit your narrative.
This is the whole of what I said:
+------------------BEGIN------------------+
But, remember, the discovery may lead to email chains that:

1. made engineering downgrade battery power, over other higher battery alternatives, and save few pennies.
2. management, upon facing reports of sudden shutdowns due to these batteries, told engineering to enable power-starving modes on new IOS releases, and hide the effects of earlier, ill-advised, battery decisions.
3. and, then, compounded the problem, by hiding the under-powered batteries with a battery replacement program, offered with a reduced fee -- while replacing old with the same, but just new.

And that is what Apple fears the most -- that skeletons in the closet, in the form of email chains, will tarnish the Apple shine forever.
+--------------------END---------------------+
Maybe, Maybe not ... as the Shadow does not know.

 

[ballyhoos]

Conspiracy "theorists" are proven right... yet again. Someone might want to tell "the people" that this CIA term ended once they got the people to forgot about JFK. Conspiracy is just part of big business today.

 

[Phonephreak]

They use the same batteries as everybody else. What is different are more high-performances CPUs which require every bit of power the battery can provide to perform at optimum. The issues as described by Apple and other places like iMore is that at times of high load, the CPU will slow down temporarily, i.e. be throttled, to avoid shutdowns associated with the aged battery being unable to provide peak power anymore. When the load goes down, the CPU goes back to normal. That is a completely reasonable solution to a problem. The problem is that they didn't mention that in the release notes, and so people assume the worst intents. Paranoia has it's day.

As an iPhone 6s user who saw some battery issues, including 2 sudden shutdowns as the battery seemed to drain suddenly, I am glad they provided a fix which made my phone stable and useful again; the alternative would have been that I would have had to get a new 2ndhand phone, or simply replaced the battery. This way, my phone's useful life is extended. Sometime this year, perhaps in a few months, I will take advantage of the battery offer. There is no rush for me, and no point swapping batteries that still work fine, even if not at optimum.
My wife is on an iPhone 5, it is getting long in the tooth (it's from 2012), and she'd like a better camera. So I'm gonna find a 2ndhand 6s off eBay, and at some point will get its battery replaced too if it needs it. Seriously, what Android phone would last you with full OS and software support for 5 years? With a Google phone, like a Nexus or Pixel, a maximum of 2 years; with any other Android phone, like Samsung, a year if you're lucky, with months between the release of critical security updates from Google until it reaches your phone with all the vendor tweaks. That is planned obsolescence, as without OS updates, it leaves you exposed to malware like Stagefright.

So what you are basically saying is that Apple used a battery that was incapable or properly powering its phone after 1 year of use. This is clearly a defect in the phone. It’s great that the chips are getting faster and faster. But kind of a waste if you won’t use a proper battery.

 

[r.harris1]

How old is your current iphone? and how long to you keep them for before you buy new?

Don't know about @jquest68, but for me, it's usually ~2.5 years. I have a 6S Plus and will be moving to an X in the next few months. My experience on the older phone is still quite good and hasn't changed a great deal over the last couple of years, and yep, it gets throttled on geekbench when below a certain charge. My actual experience of day-day use (very good) hasn't changed an iota, regardless of charge level and any throttling which may be happening, however. I've had periods of time where the battery drained like crazy, but that was always related to certain apps like Facebook and Skype for Business. That's simply my own experience, and I don't claim to speak for anyone else but me.

 

[honglong1976]

So what you are basically saying is that Apple used a battery that was incapable or properly powering its phone after 1 year of use. This is clearly a defect in the phone. It’s great that the chips are getting faster and faster. But kind of a waste if you won’t use a proper battery.

There is no benefit to having a faster GPU/CPU if after one year it's throttled and slower than the previous gen.

If the battery is unable to supply the right power to the CPU/GPU it's needs a bigger battery (design flaw) or the battery is faulty (faulty product).

So, either there is a serious design flaw or a serious fault which is why Apple reduced the speed of the CPU not just by a few hundred Mhz but half! That's a serious throttle! (cover up).

Conclusion: Design flaw and/or faulty product with a cover up.

 

[r.harris1]

There is no benefit to having a faster GPU/CPU if after one year it's throttled and slower than the previous gen.

If the battery is unable to supply the right power to the CPU/GPU it's needs a bigger battery (design flaw) or the battery is faulty (faulty product).

So, either there is a serious design flaw or a serious fault which is why Apple reduced the speed of the CPU not just by a few hundred Mhz but half! That's a serious throttle! (cover up).

Conclusion: Design flaw and/or faulty product with a cover up.

Brilliant. Who needs all the fancy lawyers when they can simply send you in to clear away any confusion. It would only take 5 minutes.

Another option is to review the current power management algorithms to work with all of the components in a more efficient manner than they do currently and if necessary, give people at least some control over aspects of it. Obviously, no manufacturer would ever want power management turned off completely, so a line would need to be drawn somewhere. Not sure where that would be, but I'm sure there are plenty of people here to provide an opinion.

Conclusion: Tempest in a Teacup.

 

[ggibson913]

Gonna take advantage of that and get a new battery for my family's iPhone 6 for $29 each this year.

 

[Puddled]

Brilliant. Who needs all the fancy lawyers when they can simply send you in to clear away any confusion. It would only take 5 minutes.

Another option is to review the current power management algorithms to work with all of the components in a more efficient manner than they do currently and if necessary, give people at least some control over aspects of it. Obviously, no manufacturer would ever want power management turned off completely, so a line would need to be drawn somewhere. Not sure where that would be, but I'm sure there are plenty of people here to provide an opinion.

Conclusion: Tempest in a Teacup.

This isn't a power management issue.

 

[ggibson913]

Some interesting points of view, do any of you know of any Smart Phone where the battery doesn't degrade over time? I can't think of any Android, Windows Phone, or iOS phones which do not. All Lithium ION batteries lose their capacity for charging over time. Apple thought that rather than allowing people's phone to shut off, they would instead slow folks phones down to so they wouldn't experience a shut down, maybe a better customer experience. The lawsuit seems to be how dare Apple not have technology that doesn't exist.

 

[honglong1976]

Brilliant. Who needs all the fancy lawyers when they can simply send you in to clear away any confusion. It would only take 5 minutes.

Another option is to review the current power management algorithms to work with all of the components in a more efficient manner than they do currently and if necessary, give people at least some control over aspects of it. Obviously, no manufacturer would ever want power management turned off completely, so a line would need to be drawn somewhere. Not sure where that would be, but I'm sure there are plenty of people here to provide an opinion.

Conclusion: Tempest in a Teacup.

Yup! indeed!

 

[AZ63]

Although I like this post I still find it strange and quite plausible that Apple knew the demands of the CPU vs Battery

Quite simply to ensure rave reviews of buttery like performance, high benchmarks and good feed back from reviews etc they sacrificed long term performance/endurance and placed the burden of maintaining original performance on to the user unbekowingly

Maybe they underestimated the timing of the degregation and failed miserable to inform the consumer that your device performance is subject to battery condition

But IMO a retrospective fix is a change in sales T&C's even if the consumer was unaware. Simple before and after testing by independent bodies will demonstrate this regardless of lack of clarity in Apples marketing/spec's

Will still do not know if the 8 or the X will suffer the same fate if the CPU is too demanding or if the battery is too small or both

I will add to my original comment that, in my opinion, the fact that when Apple designs and prototypes a new phone they can only test the phone for so long before they have to green light the phone for mass production. I believe they learn more each time/production cycle but that they can't actually test a phone in daily use for a two year period before that phone goes into production. It is clear Apple under estimated battery life expectancy with their recent builds based on their limited test time for those phones. Additionally, I wouldn't expect this issue to be resolved in the next iPhone if they haven't already addressed it as it is too late to make changes for next year's phone. Perhaps they learned their lesson when they wrote the patch to help performance for the 6, 6s, etc. my guess is not, because of the reasons I stated earlier. I believe, based on the outcry, Apple will make hardware adjustments in the future. How far into the future, only Apple knows and I am pretty certain they will not tell us about their future plans in these regards.

 

[r.harris1]

This isn't a power management issue.

OK....I'll bite. What sort of issue do you think it is?

 

[Puddled]

OK....I'll bite. What sort of issue do you think it is?

I don't "think" anything. Apple have told you what the problem is (iphones shutting down due to premature aging of the batteries)

Power management is just the mitigation tool they have used to cover it up.

 

[msandersen]

So what you are basically saying is that Apple used a battery that was incapable or properly powering its phone after 1 year of use. This is clearly a defect in the phone. It’s great that the chips are getting faster and faster. But kind of a waste if you won’t use a proper battery.

In essence yes, as opposed to a nefarious plot to make people upgrade by secretly throttling all phones after a year. If that was the case, the code would have been in iOS from the start, and not introduced as a late fix once phones started shutting down suddenly. It’s a design defect that’s come to light with their newer processors. I expect it came to light too late to change the design of the iPhone 8 and X, unless it’s a simpler fix not requiring major redesign like a larger battery (though the X does have that), and as such they may have to offer cheap battery upgrades for affected phones up til a certain age they or the courts deem “reasonable”. At this stage, the battery replacement price drop is only for 2018, but that may change depending on what happens next, esp if it affects 8 and/or X. Much as the bendable frame of the larger Plus versions from the weakness around the volume button were a flaw, because people will insist on putting their oversized phones in their back pocket and sit on them. Or the antenna thing, which affected Mobiles ever since they started removing visible antennas. There’s a litany of design flaws in various Macs and MacBooks too, like weak soldering around hot AMD GPUs. Apple, like all other tech companies, make mistakes and design flaws. The difference is intent.

 

[Phonephreak]

OK....I'll bite. What sort of issue do you think it is?

This is Apple trying to hide a design flaw or using sub par battery’s. Throttling is one thing. Crippling a phone where they take 2/3 of the phone processing power. Something else all together. A recall would be a nightmare. Ask Samsung.

Listen. I get it. Mistakes happen. Own up to them and move on. Hiding behind a software update is not owning up to it. Lots of little things point to Apple trying to pull something. They suddenly pull battery stats from settings/3rd party apps lose access. Makes you think.
[doublepost=1515419558][/doublepost]

In essence yes, as opposed to a nefarious plot to make people upgrade by secretly throttling all phones after a year. If that was the case, the code would have been in iOS from the start, and not introduced as a late fix once phones started shutting down suddenly. It’s a design defect that’s come to light with their newer processors. I expect it came to light too late to change the design of the iPhone 8 and X, unless it’s a simpler fix not requiring major redesign like a larger battery (though the X does have that), and as such they may have to offer cheap battery upgrades for affected phones up til a certain age they or the courts deem “reasonable”. At this stage, the battery replacement price drop is only for 2018, but that may change depending on what happens next, esp if it affects 8 and/or X. Much as the bendable frame of the larger Plus versions from the weakness around the volume button were a flaw, because people will insist on putting their oversized phones in their back pocket and sit on them. Or the antenna thing, which affected Mobiles ever since they started removing visible antennas. There’s a litany of design flaws in various Macs and MacBooks too, like weak soldering around hot AMD GPUs. Apple, like all other tech companies, make mistakes and design flaws. The difference is intent.

Then it’s a design flaw. The phones should be recalled and replaced. Or make the throttle an optional. Simple.

Not like the bent iPhone thing at all. That was a defect but users bent the phone. Users aren’t causing the defect here

 

[gnipgnop]

Conclusion: Design flaw and/or faulty product with a cover up.

These are the three conditions that Apple says may lead to throttling: battery with low charge, cold battery, or old battery. All three of those are specific to the limitations of lithium ion batteries, not to Apple or their designs. All three of those are scientifically known to reduce total voltage available to the system and thus potentially limit the amount of current that can be supplied to the CPU for a given task. Not enough current to cover the task = shutdown...that is, without an additional power management control like Apple has added.

Synopsis: easy to prove that the issue Apple was addressing exists within lithium ion battery technology. No question that Apple can roll out endless amounts of scientific proof to that end. The question is whether or not it's going to be effective to argue in court that the phone shutting down and being non-functional is to the advantage of the consumer vs. keeping it functional yet slower. That's what it boils down to...and it doesn't sound like a very good argument.

 

[Ploki]

under EU consumer law, the devices has to operate as intended for TWO YEARS after purchases REGARDLESS of warranty.

Meaning apple would need to replace a fvcktonne of batteries in europe if their phones said "your battery is dead and phone is slow, please replace it asap"

Because if they did that when phones actually slowed down (less than two years), they would HAVE to replace it for free.

Now they can charge for it.

THey knew why they didnt release a statement. its cheaper this way.

 

[Phonephreak]

These are the three conditions that Apple says may lead to throttling: battery with low charge, cold battery, or old battery. All three of those are specific to the limitations of lithium ion batteries, not to Apple or their designs. All three of those are scientifically known to reduce total voltage available to the system and thus potentially limit the amount of current that can be supplied to the CPU for a given task. Not enough current to cover the task = shutdown...that is, without an additional power management control like Apple has added.

Synopsis: easy to prove that the issue Apple was addressing exists within lithium ion battery technology. The question is whether or not it's going to be effective to argue in court that the phone shutting down and being non-functional is to the advantage of the consumer vs. keeping it functional yet slower. That's what it boils down to...and it doesn't sound like a very good argument.

So basically any battery new or old.

 

[honglong1976]

Some interesting points of view, do any of you know of any Smart Phone where the battery doesn't degrade over time? I can't think of any Android, Windows Phone, or iOS phones which do not. All Lithium ION batteries lose their capacity for charging over time. Apple thought that rather than allowing people's phone to shut off, they would instead slow folks phones down to so they wouldn't experience a shut down, maybe a better customer experience. The lawsuit seems to be how dare Apple not have technology that doesn't exist.

After owning many devices with Li-on batteries I have not had one where the battery degrades so bad that the CPU has to be throttled to less than half what it should be otherwise the device shuts off.

The Nintendo Switch has a Li-ion battery. Does that mean keeping the machine running as the relevant res/fps after 1 year would cause it to shut down?

I could understand if the battery is seriously degraded but after 1 year? I have devices wich Li-Ion batteries still functioning ok after years (PSP must be 10 years and still runs as normal) W800i (over 10 years). Something not quite right about Apple's excuse!
[doublepost=1515420072][/doublepost]

under EU consumer law, the devices has to operate as intended for TWO YEARS after purchases REGARDLESS of warranty.

Meaning apple would need to replace a fvcktonne of batteries in europe if their phones said "your battery is dead and phone is slow, please replace it asap"

Because if they did that when phones actually slowed down (less than two years), they would HAVE to replace it for free.

Now they can charge for it.

THey knew why they didnt release a statement. its cheaper this way.

Agreed! Running super slow after 1 year is not operating as intended! (it's running as Apple intended but they didn't tell anyone). It's not running as intended from a consumer point of view.

Apple should be replacing batteries for free after 1 year in the EU. Unless their test app is designed not to show a fault on purpose! Again, avoiding a battery replacement.

The whole thing is fishy.

 

[gnipgnop]

So basically any battery new or old.

Correct...due to the limitations of lithium ion battery technology. Apple isn't liable for that. It's not like they promised to use a different technology in their marketing and then switched to lithium ion. It's the standard for the entire industry.