Apple Now Faces 26+ Lawsuits for 'Purposefully' or 'Secretly' Slowing Down Older iPhones

[rootee]

And so am I.

That's why I am calling your bluff.

No matter what typical engineering theory and practice says, you can't deny the fact that something as popular as an iPhone, with millions upon millions of users doing WAY different things with it, and with millions upon millions of those users' batteries experiencing almost as many different charge/discharge cycles and habits (some people tend to always deep-cycle their batteries, some people tend to always top-off their batteries every night, etc.), are going to form a dataset that has millions upon millions of statistical outliers, with every ONE of them thinking that THEIR experience is THE one that should be "designed-for".

IOW, there is literally NO WAY that Apple (or anyone) can design a secondary-battery-powered device that has consistent, unit-to-unit performance, especially over-time that will "please" everyone, regardless of their usage or charging habits (or the luck of the draw of their particular battery). The statistics are just too "noisy".

And ESPECIALLY not with the variability of batteries. We just aren't that good at controlling all the factors that determine EXACTLY how a particular battery will perform, ESPECIALLY OVER TIME. It's at best a statistical crapshoot.

Garbage in, Garbage out. Not that Apple has Garbage batteries; but that our collective understanding of batteries in general is pretty much Garbage, when it comes to predicting what YOUR battery will do, ESPECIALLY OVER TIME.

That's why you design w/ safety margins -- perhaps larger capacity batteries could give you margin against what they claim is "chemical aging". Do you think it's too much to ask as a consumer, that an $800 phone run at full speed for > 1 year?

BTW, hate to burst your bubble, but there's smart people all over the world solving problems you may find intractable. Apple engineers are the best in the world, and they have access to the best components in the world; I hope they can make better phones, that don't need slow-downs, and still make terrific profits!

 

[Abazigal]

One interesting thing we might find through the Discovery process is how many of the obtuse Apple defenders here are Apple PR employees. Should that happen, reading these posts from people who adamantly defend this sneaking behavior will make a lot more sense.

Just being a new poster isn't enough to warrant suspicion. I lurked for years before ever feeling a need to post an opinion and I'm probably not alone in that.

Still, I am seeing a steady stream of red herrings being used to divert the argument from the actual issue. Fraud, Property damage, and avoiding massive warranty replacements of millions of batteries. Planned obsolesce.

I am interested in what they did to MY property and when they did it. I am not interested in why.

These are the actions of corporate criminals protecting their bonuses at the considerable and ongoing expense of the people. Looking at you Timmy, know anything about this?

By crude analogy :

If I rob a bank to save the life of my kidnapped wife and children I am still a bank robber. Apple can stuff their excuses.

And it’s a lousy analogy. Robbing a bank is against the law. There’s no two ways about it. There is nothing in the law which states that Apple cannot throttle your phone. That’s why there is a lawsuit, whose very purpose is to establish guilt. But until the court does, Apple hasn’t been proven guilty yet.

And the onus of proving that Apple deliberately slowed down your iPhone with the express intent of foisting forced obsolescence on their users lies squarely on the plaintiffs.

Apple’s case will be to prove that there was no malice involved and that this was done with the best intentions. Maybe in hindsight they could have handled the matter a lot better, but I don’t feel that it is as clear cut as people here are making it out to be.

In short, the “why” of it all absolutely matters. But predictably, the people here just focus myopically on what they can get out of this lawsuit and completely overlook the big picture.

 

[Abazigal]

It interests me that deliberately deceiving ~ 300,000,000 people in the USA (alone) is not a crime and does not bother the Apple apologists.

It should bother them as a matter of basic decency.

On a positive note : The morally bankrupt stand out loud and clear - and stupid.

I wonder what Apple pays someone to act stupid and support lies against their own people. I wonder how they rate the effectiveness of the disinformation campaign?

This is PR damage control in full swing - or - we have a sudden influx of free roaming idiots.

So anyone who doesn’t agree with you here is a shill paid off by Apple? That’s your rebuttal? That’s how low you are willing to sink in order to win an argument?

 

[rootee]

And it’s a lousy analogy. Robbing a bank is against the law. There’s no two ways about it. There is nothing in the law which states that Apple cannot throttle your phone. That’s why there is a lawsuit, whose very purpose is to establish guilt. But until the court does, Apple hasn’t been proven guilty yet.

And the onus of proving that Apple deliberately slowed down your iPhone with the express intent of foisting forced obsolescence on their users lies squarely on the plaintiffs.

Apple’s case will be to prove that there was no malice involved and that this was done with the best intentions. Maybe in hindsight they could have handled the matter a lot better, but I don’t feel that it is as clear cut as people here are making it out to be.

In short, the “why” of it all absolutely matters. But predictably, the people here just focus myopically on what they can get out of this lawsuit and completely overlook the big picture.

Possibly, the "big picture" for the lawsuits is that Apple be more transparent with their iOS updates. It's interesting, that you can think the worst of the plaintiffs intentions, and the best of Apple's.

Also, it seems like the onus is on Apple to prove why it was in the customer's best interest to not say phones were intentionally slowed down to prevent shutdowns, and also to not communicate the information needed to make purchasing decisions, I.e. should i replace my battery or get a new phone.

 

[firewood]

TDo you think it's too much to ask as a consumer, that an $800 phone run at full speed for > 1 year?

Yes.

Given the billions of transistors in these new large SOCs, and the dark silicon problem inherent in the technology, clocking them all at full rated speed would require a battery too big for a pocket, and likely produce enough heat to burn your hand. These devices all need lots of continuous power management and performance limiting to allow using a handheld battery.

Or do you want to go back to simple mobile processors like they used in Palm Pilots?

 

[Abazigal]

Possibly, the "big picture" for the lawsuits is that Apple be more transparent with their iOS updates. It's interesting, that you can think the worst of the plaintiffs intentions, and the best of Apple's.

I credit this to the time I have spent on Aboveavalon. The author, Neil Cybart, is very insightful and often sheds light on areas of topics most don’t see or tackle.

Of course the plaintiffs have every right to be upset and pursue their own justice. But you would think that after over three thousand replies here and in other similar threads and seeing the same tired arguments being recycled over and over again, people would have learnt to move on and focus on other aspects of the discussion, but people seem utterly obsessed with $29 batteries and making Apple Pay and incapable of moving beyond this issue.

 

[viperGTS]

It interests me that deliberately deceiving ~ 300,000,000 people in the USA (alone) is not a crime and does not bother the Apple apologists.

It should bother them as a matter of basic decency.

On a positive note : The morally bankrupt stand out loud and clear - and stupid.

I wonder what Apple pays someone to act stupid and support lies against their own people. I wonder how they rate the effectiveness of the disinformation campaign?

This is PR damage control in full swing - or - we have a sudden influx of free roaming idiots.

Be careful; the word "apologist" is banned on this forum. I'm surprised your post hasn't been removed by a mod yet.

 

[rootee]

I credit this to the time I have spent on Aboveavalon. The author, Neil Cybart, is very insightful and often sheds light on areas of topics most don’t see or tackle.

Of course the plaintiffs have every right to be upset and pursue their own justice. But you would think that after over three thousand replies here and in other similar threads and seeing the same tired arguments being recycled over and over again, people would have learnt to move on and focus on other aspects of the discussion, but people seem utterly obsessed with $29 batteries and making Apple Pay and incapable of moving beyond this issue.

I hadn't heard of Above Avalon; i'll definitely check them out, thanks!

I cant' speak for everyone, but I have an iPhone 6, and I feel miffed in that Apple made it really hard to replace my battery because it was passing their battery diagnostic, even though it had the shutdown problem and I was willing to pay the $79 battery fee. I had to go to two stores, and talk to managers to get them to do it. And then I hear this news of slowing down the phone starting in 10.2.1, and keeping it secret. It's really shady in my opinion. But, you're right, I agree that focusing on battery fees and such are small picture stuff, but it's a symptom of feeling cheated and having no recourse.

 

[PeaceMonger]

Be careful; the word "apologist" is banned on this forum. I'm surprised your post hasn't been removed by a mod yet.

News to me. Banned you say. OK, no problem; I 'll check it out. I do not expect free speech on a private forum.

The applicable synonyms are numerous.
[doublepost=1515365520][/doublepost]

So anyone who doesn’t agree with you here is a shill paid off by Apple? That’s your rebuttal? That’s how low you are willing to sink in order to win an argument?

Apply logic, your conclusion is a non sequitur. Quit putting words in my mouth.

Apple denied it for years. They got caught and made excuses.

This isn't complicated. Your bosses screwed up and got caught.
[doublepost=1515366265][/doublepost]

And it’s a lousy analogy. Robbing a bank is against the law. There’s no two ways about it. There is nothing in the law which states that Apple cannot throttle your phone. That’s why there is a lawsuit, whose very purpose is to establish guilt. But until the court does, Apple hasn’t been proven guilty yet.

And the onus of proving that Apple deliberately slowed down your iPhone with the express intent of foisting forced obsolescence on their users lies squarely on the plaintiffs.

Apple’s case will be to prove that there was no malice involved and that this was done with the best intentions. Maybe in hindsight they could have handled the matter a lot better, but I don’t feel that it is as clear cut as people here are making it out to be.

In short, the “why” of it all absolutely matters. But predictably, the people here just focus myopically on what they can get out of this lawsuit and completely overlook the big picture.

I see the behavior as deliberate fraud on Apple's part. That's illegal. Good analogy. Bank Robbery has to be proven, as will Apple's wallet robbery by deception.

 

[Roller]

It interests me that deliberately deceiving ~ 300,000,000 people in the USA (alone) is not a crime and does not bother the Apple apologists.

It should bother them as a matter of basic decency.

On a positive note : The morally bankrupt stand out loud and clear - and stupid.

I wonder what Apple pays someone to act stupid and support lies against their own people. I wonder how they rate the effectiveness of the disinformation campaign?

This is PR damage control in full swing - or - we have a sudden influx of free roaming idiots.

Yes, everyone who doesn't agree with your vitriol is a shill for Apple, a free roaming idiot or an apologist, and the entire population of the United States has been deceived.

In reality, there are people here who are capable of critical thought and are willing to hear all the facts regarding Apple's actions before passing judgment. My family and I have owned multiple iPhones, including 6, 6 Plus, 6s, 7, 7 Plus, and X. If it turns out that we're due compensation for design defects in any of them, I'll expect nothing less, but I'm waiting to let due process run its course.

 

[r.harris1]

This isn't complicated. Your bosses screwed up and got caught.

I hope inane isn’t banned. If all you can do is tell people that disagree with you that they’re being paid to do so, you’re part of the problem, and not the solution, to the level of discourse here (hint: the level of discourse is very low). You may as well have not even posted. I got warned by a mod for using a one word response that I personally thought took the place of a lot of words and was very succinct - live and learn I guess. It might be useful to warn if people use too many words to say nothing.

But sadly that won’t help. One person’s “nothing” is what another might think of as the height of pithiness.

Hell, I wish I WAS getting paid to be here.

 

[bruinsrme]

It interests me that deliberately deceiving ~ 300,000,000 people in the USA (alone) is not a crime and does not bother the Apple apologists.

It should bother them as a matter of basic decency.

On a positive note : The morally bankrupt stand out loud and clear - and stupid.

I wonder what Apple pays someone to act stupid and support lies against their own people. I wonder how they rate the effectiveness of the disinformation campaign?

This is PR damage control in full swing - or - we have a sudden influx of free roaming idiots.

So 300mion people in the USA own cell phones? I guess that leaves about 30 million that don’t agree and own other phones.
Exaggerate much.
I would find it hard pressed to find 30 million people that cared.

 

[psac]

Why not just use a battery case?

The battery case will help with battery drain, but not with the slowdown. The slowdown is based off of battery life/capacity, not current charge level.
[doublepost=1515369911][/doublepost]

You have to prove knowledge of the issue and puffing from salespeople is not illegal. These devices are out of warranty in many cases.

Judges aren’t going to set a precedent that companies have to refund the full value of products that customers chose to buy. Sales people sell...many people buy a new car because their old once starts getting worse gas mileage and the car dealer tells them this new one though...
[doublepost=1515289881][/doublepost]
Well within their right. You’re expecting too much.

If the phone is in working condition, and the battery is worn, it’s the same process to change the battery, but because the water-detection strip inside shows a different color, they won’t change the battery? One really has nothing to do with the other. I think asking them to still perform the battery change really isn’t asking too much.

 

[PeaceMonger]

So 300mion people in the USA own cell phones? I guess that leaves about 30 million that don’t agree and own other phones.
Exaggerate much.
I would find it hard pressed to find 30 million people that cared.

Apple markets to the public as a whole, roughly some 300 million people.
Their policies are applied to the public as a whole.

The number of people who care should be apparent once Apple releases the software to reveal battery status.

My barber, who is 70 if he's a day old, was asking about it. My neighbor is thinking of shorting the stock. The public is paying attention. People take their phones seriously.

Time will tell.

 

[Corgirat]

You guys need to stop arguing( all of you.) Apple is being sued because they used a defective part in the phones. Heres the link.

Apple has posted a message on its Chinese website to address unexpected battery shutdowns affecting some iPhone 6s models, noting the issue is related to some batteries having been overexposed to "controlled ambient air" during the manufacturing process (via Business Insider).

They replaced the so called affected batteries. We are now just finding out far more were defective. And instead of doing a massive replacement they implemented this software "feature" I remember reading a few months ago that Apple even stated iPhone 6, 6s, and 6s+ were all affected. Cheap batteries create cheap phones.


As I write this on my MacBook Pro, staring at my iPhone 6s wondering if my rendering is finished on my MacPro. So hate, or whatever. But Apple screwed up and they should fix it. But they won't, and they won't be forced to either.

This is very helpful. Thank you for the link.

 

[bruinsrme]

Apple markets to the public as a whole, roughly some 300 million people.
Their policies are applied to the public as a whole.

The number of people who care should be apparent once Apple releases the software to reveal battery status.

My barber, who is 70 if he's a day old, was asking about it. My neighbor is thinking of shorting the stock. The public is paying attention. People take their phones seriously.

Time will tell.

Yeah because purposely slowing down a phone is just as serious as the consumer trusting their credit and companies have personal information stolen.

I strongly feel the majority of people will gladly pay $29 and move on.
The lawsuits will be dragged out so long the iPhone 16 will be rumored and mostly forgotten with the exception of here on Macrumors where multiple dead horses will be brought in

 

[PeaceMonger]

Yeah because purposely slowing down a phone is just as serious as the consumer trusting their credit and companies have personal information stolen.

I strongly feel the majority of people will gladly pay $29 and move on.
The lawsuits will be dragged out so long the iPhone 16 will be rumored and mostly forgotten with the exception of here on Macrumors where multiple dead horses will be brought in

You seem to be saying the issue is small and people won't care. You're saying this in a thread discussing 26 + lawsuits calling them out over the behavior.

I care. You're here discussing it so perhaps you care too.

I expect the EU to care big time. Planned obsolesce can lead to prison time for the execs in the EU. If they can find a way to impose billions in fines, they will. Do you doubt that?

Last and certainly not least, answer this. If there's nothing wrong with it, and people don't care, why lie about it? Why hide it? Why apologize?

 

[bruinsrme]

I will say there are 26+ lawsuits looking for money.

The EU will surely care about imposing a fine and surely distribute those fines to those affect (yeah right).

I am saying majority people won’t care. (Opinion)
I can’t speak for apple’s thinking.

It will be interesting to see how the lawyers assess damage to the individual.

You seem to be saying the issue is small and people won't care. You're saying this in a thread discussing 26 + lawsuits calling them out over the behavior.

I care. You're here discussing it so perhaps you care too.

I expect the EU to care big time. Planned obsolesce can lead to prison time for the execs in the EU. If they can find a way to impose billions in fines, they will. Do you doubt that?

Last and certainly not least, answer this. If there's nothing wrong with it, and people don't care, why lie about it? Why hide it? Why apologize?

 

[redgreenski]

I will say there are 26+ lawsuits looking for money.

The EU will surely care about imposing a fine and surely distribute those fines to those affect (yeah right).

I am saying majority people won’t care. (Opinion)
I can’t speak for apple’s thinking.

It will be interesting to see how the lawyers assess damage to the individual.

I care not about the money but about change in future apple policies, ie be more transparent, offer better product, and provide a battery test which reflects actual battery parameters.

 

[PeaceMonger]

There is more at stake than meets the eye.

We are being changed into a society where people will own nothing while they pay for everything. If Apple win this it's another brick in the legal precedent wall. These corporations need to be brought to heel.

Do you own your phone? If not, how long will it be till you own nothing?

The true owner of an object is the entity who controls it. The level of control Apple is imposing behind our backs is unacceptable in an ownership society. It is about private property.

Sound silly, right? John Deere has big AG tractors locked down so tight with software licenses that farmers can only have JD service them. JD can shut them down in mid field if they think a license is violated. They have. They do. Google it.

Give them an inch and they will take a mile. This is a small fight in the big scheme of things but it is the camel's nose under the tent.

We either protect our property or we loose it. The property payments will remain.

 

[wcroadie]

There is more at stake than meets the eye.

We are being changed into a society where people will own nothing while they pay for everything. If Apple win this it's another brick in the legal precedent wall. These corporations need to be brought to heel.

Do you own your phone? If not, how long will it be till you own nothing?

The true owner of an object is the entity who controls it. The level of control Apple is imposing behind our backs is unacceptable in an ownership society. It is about private property.

Sound silly, right? John Deere has big AG tractors locked down so tight with software licenses that farmers can only have JD service them. JD can shut them down in mid field if they think a license is violated. They have. They do. Google it.

Give them an inch and they will take a mile. This is a small fight in the big scheme of things but it is the camel's nose under the tent.

We either protect our property or we loose it. The property payments will remain.

You are not wrong, the whole battery ordeal is really souring me on Apple, which is a shame cause my whole family, extended family are mac people. I want in on one of these lawsuits ;-)

 

[bruinsrme]

I care not about the money but about change in future apple policies, ie be more transparent, offer better product, and provide a battery test which reflects actual battery parameters.

I think we will see just that.
The iphon 4 was similar.
Issue, plausible denial, solution and improvement.

 

[elmaco]

Are there any lawsuits against the butterfly keyboard?

Worked great when I bought my Mac Book Pro, albeit somewhat noisy, but now I have ten keys that are stuck and it's struggle to type. I have tried all kinds of tricks (tapping on the back, turn it different angles and blow air), but nothing is working. I'm not alone, many people have this problem.

I had computers for over thirty years, and I have never experienced a keyboard as bad as this.

 

[stevet]

I’m actually more pi$$ed they admit to throttling the phones with the Qualcomm modems so they don’t show up the phones with the slower Intel modems. At Apple, throttling is a way of life.

Actually, in retrospect they may do that because they knew the batteries/electronics wouldn’t handle the extra power demands.

 

[Abazigal]

Apple denied it for years. They got caught and made excuses.

The patch was applied at the start of 2017 in iOS 10.2.1. They have not been deliberately slowing down your phone for years, since it has been barely a year since this happened. Apple was not wrong to deny something they weren’t doing before.