Apple Now Faces 26+ Lawsuits for 'Purposefully' or 'Secretly' Slowing Down Older iPhones

[Dave245]

The conspiracy theorists are loving this, the truth is Apple were doing what they thought was best we all know that batteries degrade with time, would people prefer phones that shut down.

Yes Apple should of been open about it from the start, informing customers but it's no where near as bad as some people are making it out to be, either upgrade your phone or have the battery replaced, problem solved!

 

[honglong1976]

Now that is something I can get on board with. Hopefully a lawsuit isn't needed but I definitely get the sentiment. One space key replaced by me (on my own = not fun), another space key coming up and an up arrow key.
[doublepost=1515438185][/doublepost]

Lot of supposition there. But, if you're wanting the iPhone to run at full power and drain the battery quickly (for no real reason), probably not going to happen. Maybe another competitor would run their devices flat out always, but I can't think of anyone who does that today. My laptops do things like switch between integrated and discrete graphics, tweaking power to the display, etc and sure, to your point, if I really wanted to run the battery down quickly, I could certainly have more control on a laptop. And I know in windows I used to be able to enable/disable core parking but I've not looked at that in a long time. Point is, an iPhone doesn't and isn't going to give everyone minute power over the cores, so no, I don't agree that an iPhone should do this also.

Here's what I want from a mobile hand-held device, regardless of manufacturer:

(1) I want it to do the things I use them for and do it in a way that doesn't get in my way: editing photos, music, movies, etc.
(2) I want it to have decent battery life
(3) Last a couple of years

My laptop test was to prove even with a weak beat up battery (7 years old) the laptop can still run the CPU (all cores) and GPU (maxed out) until the battery dies. The iPhone batteries in question are less than or just over a year old. They should be able to work sufficiently without the iPhone switching off or the CPU being reduced by massive amounts.

I agree! I want a phone that uses most of the power when it is required (playing games for example) reducing the power when doing email, web browsing to being virtually dead when in standby. This always happened in the past on various devices but now everyone is defending Apple for implementing this.

It's not an awesome new feature, it's a cover up for something they are quite obviously aware of.

If the iPhone is switching off while in use regardless of CPU/GPU usage, there is a design flaw somewhere (Apple has designed it and the software is telling it to turn off to prevent overheating to the CPU/GPU or battery). Which my tests shows happens on a laptop once the heatsink is removed.

If the CPU is being throttled by a huge margin. Why? Testing a laptop with a beatup, 7 year old battery, the laptop can run at full CPU/GPU usage until the battery dies. Apple is controlling what happens and their software is telling the phone to slow down. Again, why? To push you to upgrade most likely.

Apple control the hardware and software, unlike other manufacturers so they know exactly what they are doing.

Even my Macbook Pro (mid 2009 model) with a dodgy battery, that would barely charge but still I could push all CPU cores to 100% and max out the GPU and it would just become hot, fan would spin up like crazy and it would just drain the battery.

The whole thing stinks of fish and is not logical with any other device from the past 10 years incorporating a li-ion battery. The iPhone doesn't have some 20 core CPU beast, it's just a mobile CPU.

Don't defend Apple. Let them pay lots of money to lawyers to do that!

 

[Mad.Whack]

Show me one article that shows Apple uses lesser quality batteries than their competitors. I'm talking QUALITY, not capacity.

No, you made the statement that apple only uses the best batteries. It is YOUR duty to prove that.
However any simpleton knows how to google:

Samsung's S8 will maintain a battery capacity of 95% after 1 in their S8 (this is a 1 year old phone btw!).
https://www.androidheadlines.com/2017/03/galaxy-s8-boasts-slower-battery-degradation-galaxy-s7.html

Apple only covers 80% in the 1 year warranty period (500 cycles).
https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/service-and-recycling/

Checkmate buddy, stop making stupid claims YOU can't prove and then ask others to prove otherwise.

 

[I7guy]

No, you made the statement that apple only uses the best batteries. It is YOUR duty to prove that.
However any simpleton knows how to google:

Samsung's S8 will maintain a battery capacity of 95% after 1 in their S8 (this is a 1 year old phone btw!).
https://www.androidheadlines.com/2017/03/galaxy-s8-boasts-slower-battery-degradation-galaxy-s7.html

Apple only covers 80% in the 1 year warranty period (500 cycles).
https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/service-and-recycling/

Checkmate buddy, stop making stupid claims YOU can't prove and then ask others to prove otherwise.

Between Apple and Samsung batteries is a different metric. After 500 cycles how much of Samsung batteries degrade?

 

[honglong1976]

The conspiracy theorists are loving this, the truth is Apple were doing what they thought was best we all know that batteries degrade with time, would people prefer phones that shut down.

Yes Apple should of been open about it from the start, informing customers but it's no where near as bad as some people are making it out to be, either upgrade your phone or have the battery replaced, problem solved!

So it's ok that less than 1 year after purchase or just over, the performance is reduced to less than half otherwise the phones shuts down. The remedy is to replace the battery on a non removable battery device at a cost to yourself.

I have never had this issue on any other Li-ion owned device including Apple's own iPhones up to the iPhone 5S.

Why is it now suddenly a problem? and why is it accepted, even the norm to now replace the battery once a year! because Apple said so! I only just replaced my Macbook Pro battery and that was 7 years old. Until them it still performed great (apart from a slight reduction in battery life)/ CPU/GPU could be hammered and the battery would just drain quicker.

PSP, PS Vita, Nintendo 3DS, Android tablet, Macbook Pro (mid 2009), many laptops/various brands (hundreds of different ones from where I work from HP, Lenovo, Toshiba, to Apple charged every day constantly for 1-7 years). Li-ion technology is brilliant and batteries can last for many many years (my PSP is about 10 years old, same original battery). My wife has a sony w800i charged once a week since 2006 (12 years old) still a full battery charge lasts about 1 week+. Original battery.

But an iPhone, costing £700+ needs the battery replacing every year! Otherwise the device cuts the performance in half or switches off. A device with no removable battery selling millions every year! Come on, what utter tosh! Apple should be ashamed! Clearly Apple have applied a software fix to hide the fact there is a serious issue. They know what it is! It will be out there eventually!

 

[saile]

This process has existed for generations: devices are designed voluntarily to last a limited period.
Anyway Apple takes risks for nothing. A lot of people, if not the majority, want the latest iPhone model.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
galaxy note 8 samsung galaxy s7

 

[wigby]

"Putting customers first since January 23, 2017." -Apple

They're coming up on their one year anniversary!

 

[I7guy]

So it's ok that less than 1 year after purchase or just over, the performance is reduced to less than half otherwise the phones shuts down. The remedy is to replace the battery on a non removable battery device at a cost to yourself.

I have never had this issue on any other Li-ion owned device including Apple's own iPhones up to the iPhone 5S.

Why is it now suddenly a problem? and why is it accepted, even the norm to now replace the battery once a year! because Apple said so! I only just replaced my Macbook Pro battery and that was 7 years old. Until them it still performed great (apart from a slight reduction in battery life)/ CPU/GPU could be hammered and the battery would just drain quicker.

PSP, PS Vita, Nintendo 3DS, Android tablet, Macbook Pro (mid 2009), many laptops/various brands (hundreds of different ones from where I work from HP, Lenovo, Toshiba, to Apple charged every day constantly for 1-7 years). Li-ion technology is brilliant and batteries can last for many many years (my PSP is about 10 years old, same original battery). My wife has a sony w800i charged once a week since 2006 (12 years old) still a full battery charge lasts about 1 week+. Original battery.

But an iPhone, costing £700+ needs the battery replacing every year! Otherwise the device cuts the performance in half or switches off. A device with no removable battery selling millions every year! Come on, what utter tosh! Apple should be ashamed! Clearly Apple have applied a software fix to hide the fact there is a serious issue. They know what it is! It will be out there eventually!

I have an older laptop that used to get 4 hrs+ on a charge. It now gets 1 hr max. So while the battery holds a charge I wouldn’t say a one hour charge before shutting off is very useful under most circumstances.

 

[kdarling]

The conspiracy theorists are loving this, the truth is Apple were doing what they thought was best we all know that batteries degrade with time, would people prefer phones that shut down.

Apple didn't design things this way. They added throttling after many reports of unexpected shutdowns.

Yes Apple should of been open about it from the start, informing customers but it's no where near as bad as some people are making it out to be, either upgrade your phone or have the battery replaced, problem solved!

Except at the time they weren't letting many people replace their battery, even when willing to pay for it, because they claimed the batteries tested okay.

Obviously their Genius test doesn't match whatever the throttling parameters are.

 

[lowendlinux]

Well apple is going to have some busy Lawyers

 

[lazard]

This process has existed for generations: devices are designed voluntarily to last a limited period.
Anyway Apple takes risks for nothing. A lot of people, if not the majority, want the latest iPhone model.

A lot of people may want the latest model, but the vast majority use an old model.

 

[JRobinsonJr]

I think the batteries got too thin. Smaller batter has more internal resistance to start with, that internal resistance goes up over time as battery degrades. It gets to the point where the voltage drop caused by the internal battery resistance is high enough that the terminal voltage which the CPU gets is too low and phone shuts down. Throttling the CPU will lower the current drawn by the CPU, therefore less current in circuit and less voltage dropped by the internal resistance of the battery and therefore more voltage supplied to drive the processor.

V = emf – Ir

V is the voltage what the CPU sees, emf is the voltage made by the battery, and I (current) times r ( internal battery resistance)

Makes sense... and thanks for the physics refresher! (not sarcastic). It's been a long time since I was in school.

Maybe this will finally get Apple to reconsider the 'thin at all cost' approach.

 

[Dave245]

So it's ok that less than 1 year after purchase or just over, the performance is reduced to less than half otherwise the phones shuts down. The remedy is to replace the battery on a non removable battery device at a cost to yourself.

I have never had this issue on any other Li-ion owned device including Apple's own iPhones up to the iPhone 5S.

Why is it now suddenly a problem? and why is it accepted, even the norm to now replace the battery once a year! because Apple said so! I only just replaced my Macbook Pro battery and that was 7 years old. Until them it still performed great (apart from a slight reduction in battery life)/ CPU/GPU could be hammered and the battery would just drain quicker.

PSP, PS Vita, Nintendo 3DS, Android tablet, Macbook Pro (mid 2009), many laptops/various brands (hundreds of different ones from where I work from HP, Lenovo, Toshiba, to Apple charged every day constantly for 1-7 years). Li-ion technology is brilliant and batteries can last for many many years (my PSP is about 10 years old, same original battery). My wife has a sony w800i charged once a week since 2006 (12 years old) still a full battery charge lasts about 1 week+. Original battery.

But an iPhone, costing £700+ needs the battery replacing every year! Otherwise the device cuts the performance in half or switches off. A device with no removable battery selling millions every year! Come on, what utter tosh! Apple should be ashamed! Clearly Apple have applied a software fix to hide the fact there is a serious issue. They know what it is! It will be out there eventually!

Where are you getting this yearly figure from? From what I’ve seen it’s people with iPhone 6S and so on, phones that are years old. I had my iPhone 7S Plus before upgrading to my iPhone X and there was no issues with it battery wise, yes battery’s do degrade over time but Apple were doing what was best in order to stop devices from randomly shutting down, then there would be people complaining that their iPhone’s were shutting down. I don’t see an issue here, if there is an issue with my iPhone battery I get it replaced or a i buy a new iPhone. If your not happy with what Apple have been doing your more than welcome to try the competition Android which also has issues.

 

[mudflap]

No, you made the statement that apple only uses the best batteries. It is YOUR duty to prove that.
However any simpleton knows how to google:

Samsung's S8 will maintain a battery capacity of 95% after 1 in their S8 (this is a 1 year old phone btw!).
https://www.androidheadlines.com/2017/03/galaxy-s8-boasts-slower-battery-degradation-galaxy-s7.html

Apple only covers 80% in the 1 year warranty period (500 cycles).
https://www.apple.com/ca/batteries/service-and-recycling/

Checkmate buddy, stop making stupid claims YOU can't prove and then ask others to prove otherwise.

Jesus, relax man.

I never said Apple uses the best batteries. And those two articles don't prove anything about the batteries themselves—only the systems they are a part of. Does the S8's battery degrade slower because of proprietary tech in the battery itself? Or does it degrade slower because of careful software optimization? Or is it Snapdragon? Or is it a combination of all of those?

The only way you can accurately compare batteries is if you eliminated all the other variables and installed them in identical devices and tested them.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Well, I am probably a lesser fan of Samsung than Apple, so while I am not sure what "exact opposite" they've done compared to Apple, I am simply not going to come to Samsung's defense.

It's just funny that you feel so strong an affinity to a corporation that you would defend them when they are obvious in the wrong.

See, you start with that premise, and then conform your observations to reinforce it.
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That's why you design w/ safety margins -- perhaps larger capacity batteries could give you margin against what they claim is "chemical aging". Do you think it's too much to ask as a consumer, that an $800 phone run at full speed for > 1 year?

BTW, hate to burst your bubble, but there's smart people all over the world solving problems you may find intractable. Apple engineers are the best in the world, and they have access to the best components in the world; I hope they can make better phones, that don't need slow-downs, and still make terrific profits!

So anyway, after participating in this forum "debate" the other night, I tracked down and downloaded the "Battery Life" and "Geekbench 4" Apps to try on my iPhone 6.

I purchased my iPhone 6 when it first came out in September, 2014, and it has been in continuous use since then.

Results: "Battery Life" said that my battery's "health" was 93%. So much for "inadequate battery".

GeekBench 4 Results? In the CPU Tests, both my single and multi-core scores were ABOVE the Average for my phone-model, and the "Compute" Score was JUST slightly (<100 points) lower than the Average reported on GeekBench site for my phone.

So, so much for "Too much to ask for unthrottled performance for a year." My phone is over THREE years old, and subjectively AND objectively, is just as fast as Designed.

Yes, it's an anecdote; but no less valid than all the Haters on here complaining of all-manner of "Throttling" results; curiously NEVER proving ANY of them.

Well, here's the PROOF:

Model iPhone 6 Plus

OS iOS 10.3.3

Single-Core Score 1571

Multi-Core Score 2671


Model iPhone 6 Plus

OS iOS 10.3.3

Metal Score 4445

See also, the attached GeekBench 4 Files for the above tests.

 

[617660]

See, you start with that premise, and then conform your observations to reinforce it.

My premise is that you are biased toward Apple because you don't take words from Samsung for the equal weight.

Then you replied with this:

"MacsRuleOthersDrool said: ↑
Considering Apple has a decades-long and deserved reputation for not exaggerating product specs, and even more particularly when it comes to battery-performance, and Samsung has a decades-long and deserved reputation of exactly the opposite, why yes, yes I do."

YOUR REPLY conformed with my premise and reinforced it.

 

[wcroadie]

Makes sense... and thanks for the physics refresher! (not sarcastic). It's been a long time since I was in school.

Maybe this will finally get Apple to reconsider the 'thin at all cost' approach.

Probably not
[doublepost=1515584040][/doublepost]

This process has existed for generations: devices are designed voluntarily to last a limited period.
Anyway Apple takes risks for nothing. A lot of people, if not the majority, want the latest iPhone model.

Wanting and actually purchasing are two very different things, I was a Porsche GT3, I won't be purchasing one until my kids are out of college. I want a nice fishing boat, I won't be purchasing one, ever.

 

[ggibson913]

No one is debating the fact that batteries degrade over time but different quality of lithium batteries degrade differently over time.

A quality original battery will last over two years and I've seen nearly 4 years before significant degradation drop off. For a nearly $1K+ phone it should be at least 2 to 3 years.

On the opposite end of the spectrum are $5 eBay quality batteries that have significant degradation around the 1 year mark. They're ok for older devices that you want to keep running but not plan to keep around for much longer.

Then, there are Apple sourced $2.50 batteries that not only have significant degradation around 1 year but also suffer from premature shutdown.

As I understand it, the degradation problem is mainly manifesting itself in the iPhone 6/ 6 Plus phones. Wouldn't that meet your criteria of 2 to 3 years?

 

[PaddyTB]

See, you start with that premise, and then conform your observations to reinforce it.
[doublepost=1515526034][/doublepost]
So anyway, after participating in this forum "debate" the other night, I tracked down and downloaded the "Battery Life" and "Geekbench 4" Apps to try on my iPhone 6.

I purchased my iPhone 6 when it first came out in September, 2014, and it has been in continuous use since then.

Results: "Battery Life" said that my battery's "health" was 93%. So much for "inadequate battery".

GeekBench 4 Results? In the CPU Tests, both my single and multi-core scores were ABOVE the Average for my phone-model, and the "Compute" Score was JUST slightly (<100 points) lower than the Average reported on GeekBench site for my phone.

So, so much for "Too much to ask for unthrottled performance for a year." My phone is over THREE years old, and subjectively AND objectively, is just as fast as Designed.

Yes, it's an anecdote; but no less valid than all the Haters on here complaining of all-manner of "Throttling" results; curiously NEVER proving ANY of them.

Well, here's the PROOF:

Model iPhone 6 Plus

OS iOS 10.3.3

Single-Core Score 1571

Multi-Core Score 2671


Model iPhone 6 Plus

OS iOS 10.3.3

Metal Score 4445

See also, the attached GeekBench 4 Files for the above tests.

Curiously I too have an iPhone 6 Plus bought in September 2014, and it too passes the Geek Bench tests with flying colours, and the battery is showing a similar level of health to yours.

BUT in use - this is a subjective impression that I've formed since upgrading to iOS 11 - scrolling is jagged, the camera takes so long to initialise that the photo opportunity gets missed, and toggling play on Podcasts is often so slow I prod the button again thinking I missed it the first time around and end up switching the damn thing off again.

Again subjectively I think things improved after one of the iOS 11 point releases but my poor phone is still performing far worse than it used to - and even worse than a 5S I have.

Apple have agreed to relieve me of £25 to put in a new battery - we shall see whether or not it makes a (subjective) difference...

 

[deferredAnon]

Curiously I too have an iPhone 6 Plus bought in September 2014, and it too passes the Geek Bench tests with flying colours, and the battery is showing a similar level of health to yours.

BUT in use - this is a subjective impression that I've formed since upgrading to iOS 11 - scrolling is jagged, the camera takes so long to initialise that the photo opportunity gets missed, and toggling play on Podcasts is often so slow I prod the button again thinking I missed it the first time around and end up switching the damn thing off again.

Again subjectively I think things improved after one of the iOS 11 point releases but my poor phone is still performing far worse than it used to - and even worse than a 5S I have.

Apple have agreed to relieve me of £25 to put in a new battery - we shall see whether or not it makes a (subjective) difference...

Run CPU DasherX when battery is below 20% then look at the 'Current Frequency'.

And did you say Apple agreed to give you new, free battery? Under what terms? Just a guess here, but for them to do that, your battery must be in pretty bad shape and under warranty... Or does Apple give different offers to those in Europe for 'batterygate'?

 

[kdarling]

I purchased my iPhone 6 when it first came out in September, 2014, and it has been in continuous use since then.

Results: "Battery Life" said that my battery's "health" was 93%. So much for "inadequate battery".

So you're basically saying that Apple should never have had to add throttling, because an iPhone 6 battery should still be above 90% after three years of "continuous use" or about 1,000 cycles. Remarkable!

Any idea what your actual cycle count is? Oh yeah, Apple removed all apps that gave that info back in mid 2016.

So instead, please tell us what Coconut Battery says. (I assume someone with a forum name like yours has a Mac.) Because either you only have relatively few cycles on your battery, or you have one heckuva unicorn battery that no one else has.

And did you say Apple agreed to give you new, free battery?

No, he said "Apple have agreed to relieve me of £25 to put in a new battery."

 

[deferredAnon]

No, he said "Apple have agreed to relieve me of £25 to put in a new battery."

'Relieve me of £25' basically means they won't charge him the £25 replacement fee. That's why I was confused.

 

[PaddyTB]

'Relieve me of £25' basically means they won't charge him the £25 replacement fee. That's why I was confused.

No, sorry - it means they will charge me - just an idiomatic bit of mild sarcasm on my part.

 

[kdarling]

'Relieve me of £25' basically means they won't charge him the £25 replacement fee. That's why I was confused.

"Relieving" something means removing it. In both British and American English.

e.g. "Sorry, but I have to relieve you of that pistol." or "This pill will relieve you of pain."

 

[Phonephreak]

That's not how lithium ion batteries work. You mean you can't afford $79 for a new battery a few years down the road for a phone you paid a grand for?

Problem isn’t not affording it. Nice try at an insult though. It’s that the battery needs replacement in 1 year not 3