Apple Offers Sneak Peek of Completely Redesigned Mac Pro

[tralfaz]

MacMini, MacMidi, MacMaxi

Well I have read a lot posts now so I guess I will add my two cents in. Basically I would have no problem with new MacPro if it just wasn't a replacement for the old MacPro. In many ways it is the MacMidi that I wished Apple would have made for the last 6 years. That is a headless option somewhere in between the MacMini and the classic MacPro design. I think there is a market for both if Apple would only market the new Mac cylinder as a MacMidi. Then update the classic MacPro and market it as the MacMaxi, with dual processor support with up to 24 cores, and the widest possible choices for graphics card options.

I know its a pipe dream but I believe updating the classic MacPro would require not much effort, and let the market decide what is popular mini, midi, or maxi. And just maybe it wants all three.

 

[AidenShaw]

Well I have read a lot posts now so I guess I will add my two cents in. Basically I would have no problem with new MacPro if it just wasn't a replacement for the old MacPro. In many ways it is the MacMidi that I wished Apple would have made for the last 6 years. That is a headless option somewhere in between the MacMini and the classic MacPro design. I think there is a market for both if Apple would only market the new Mac cylinder as a MacMidi. Then update the classic MacPro and market it as the MacMaxi, with dual processor support with up to 24 cores, and the widest possible choices for graphics card options.

I know its a pipe dream but I believe updating the classic MacPro would require not much effort, and let the market decide what is popular mini, midi, or maxi. And just maybe it wants all three.

That makes sense, however the new system shown at MacWorld SF won't have a midi price.

A quad core with a single Radeon or GeForce could have a midi price, though.

We'll just have to wait and see what models Apple actually releases.

 

[toke lahti]

Apple needs to decide the sweet spot where they're going to target, and where to cut off at the high end. Sure there are users who may want a $10000 machine and be willing to pay for it, but they're going to sell a lot more of the 12 core machines, particularly if they can optimize them for what most users want and keep the price from getting too high.

Same thing happens with PCI slots, people kicked and screamed when the number of them came down from five or six, it was the death of a machine for pro users. And yet plenty of pros kept buying and using them, same will happen with this machine.

New MP will be more expensive and expanding it will be a lot more expensive than it used to be. How this will attract more buyers than before?

Perhaps he meant "there is no way to follow the EULA and run OSX as a Virtual Machine"

There is a way in EULA. You just need to run it on Apple's hardware.

In many ways it is the MacMidi that I wished Apple would have made for the last 6 years. That is a headless option somewhere in between the MacMini and the classic MacPro design. I think there is a market for both if Apple would only market the new Mac cylinder as a MacMidi. Then update the classic MacPro and market it as the MacMaxi, with dual processor support with up to 24 cores, and the widest possible choices for graphics card options.

I know its a pipe dream but I believe updating the classic MacPro would require not much effort, and let the market decide what is popular mini, midi, or maxi. And just maybe it wants all three.

If new MP is more expensive than the old one, which is thould be with dual pro GPUs and ssd and 3 tb chips etc., it can't be categorized as MacMidi. Or it would be very funny when Midi would be more expensive than Maxi. Problem with 3 headless models is that there's not enough buyers for even 2. New MP is designed to be flagship to show off, not to be sold a lot. So I'm waiting for real macMidi, wich would be mini with dGPU. (2011 model lacks usb3...)

If people consider the original Mac through the Mac 128K, the Mac Plus, the SE, the SE/30 -- then jump to the fruit-coloured iMacs and so forth it becomes apparent they've held this view for as long as SJ was in charge of the company and while his design legacy holds.

So far Apple has had a tower model with internal expansion capacity at least from 1991. That's 23 years in row!
In that perspective this is a whole new situation and shows how Apple is heading to optionless future whether the users want it or not. This has not been the case before.

I'm afraid thats impossible to answer unless Apple publishes an architectural diagram of the system.

Edit: been doing some speculating on how it might work -- which shouldn't be taken or rumored to be how it will.

Starting from the Wikipedia article on 4K display resolution, a 4K display can display anywhere from 3840x2160 to 4096x3112 pixels. Multiplied by either 24 or 32 bits per pixel and a 60Hz or 75Hz refresh rate, I'm getting a maximum possible bandwidth usage of 15.82Gbits/sec on each T-bolt port.

With Aiden's post showing 8Gbits/sec each way on every PCIe 3 lane and T-bolt 2 topping out at 16Gbps usable bandwidth each way, its possible that the two graphics cards each have two T-bolt2 bridges/adapters on them that are connected via internal cabling to the T-bolt2 ports on the back of the tube. Two x T-bolt2 adapters per card = 4 x bi-directional PCIe 3 lanes per card as a bare minimum. Allowing a PCIe3 x8 connector per card gives a total of 16 x PCIe3 lanes for graphics/T-bolt. Assuming one graphics connector is electrically equivalent to a PCIe3 x16 slot to accommodate an extra 2 lanes for the SSD blade attached to one of the graphics cards and another 2 x PCIe3 lanes for bridging to the PCH and its downstream USB3, GbE, and audio in/out ports, and everything fits within the maximum 20x PCIe3 lanes allowed by a single CPU.

So it might work, but given that each graphics card would have a different configuration (one an x16 with flash drive and one an x8 without flash drive) I wouldn't like to speculate on upgradeability or maintainability and certainly not on price. Custom configs always drive up the cost because they can't be sourced in bulk and take advantage of economies of scale. Probably best to think of the tube as a modern equivalent to the 20th-anniversary Mac.

Edit #2: I also wouldn't like to speculate on real-world T-bolt2/display performance if each T-bolt port was being used for a 4K display and external storage I/O at the same time.

TB's biggest design flaw was to marry lightpeak with displayport. Now TB's displayport will be one generation late for ever. If we assume that new MP will be upgraded every 3 years, we still can expect that Apple's flagship Mac in 2016 will still have dp1.2 specced in 2009.
Sony had an idea to pair lightpeak with usb, but sadly usb consorium didn't want somebody else to mess with their port. This would have freed dp to evolve without tb's constraints, which are already a hindrance.
When you take high quality 4k (4096px*2560px*30b(color)*60Hz=18.9Gbit/s & double that for 3D) away from TB's capacity there will be less left than what usb3 can handle. Next year Dp1.3 (they have to release it soon for 3D 4k) + usb4 will superseed TB2 in every way. Putting all eggs on one socket is pretty nice for ultrabook, but not so good idea for professional desktop workstation.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

If new MP is more expensive than the old one, which is thould be with dual pro GPUs and ssd and 3 tb chips etc., it can't be categorized as MacMidi. Or

I'm not sure which person coined this term "MacMidi" but I'm wondering if they're aware that MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface and Macs have always been big players with this type of interface both in the past and even today so calling a "mid-grade" Mac a "Midi" is a very bad idea, in my opinion. The first time I noticed this term being used I immediately thought the topic had somehow moved to Logic Pro or something.

 

[AidenShaw]

There is a way in EULA. You just need to run it on Apple's hardware.

True - but the comment was in the context of running Apple OSX virtualized in a datacenter.

Since Apple makes no hardware that is reasonable for a data center, I think that my comment was reasonable. Your statement is true, but it takes my comment out of context.

If new MP is more expensive than the old one, which is thould be with dual pro GPUs and ssd and 3 tb chips etc., it can't be categorized as MacMidi.

If Apple showed the "best" config at MacWorld SF, and the "good" config is a quad core i7 with a single GPU - it could be a MacMidi. We just have to wait for Apple to announce the system.

(And I never associated the MacMidi with MIDI - clearly completely different words.)

 

[xbjllb]

I'm not sure which person coined this term "MacMidi" but I'm wondering if they're aware that MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface and Macs have always been big players with this type of interface both in the past and even today so calling a "mid-grade" Mac a "Midi" is a very bad idea, in my opinion. The first time I noticed this term being used I immediately thought the topic had somehow moved to Logic Pro or something.

+1. And also reminiscent of the mid-80's Atari that made a big deal about having built-in MIDI. "Midi" as a term for "middle" when out in the mid 70's with the "midi-skirt", and has been a well-established generic musical term for more than twenty years now.



___________________
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[toke lahti]

If Apple showed the "best" config at MacWorld SF, and the "good" config is a quad core i7 with a single GPU - it could be a MacMidi. We just have to wait for Apple to announce the system.

It would be really ironic, if Apple would announce the xMac (= headless mac with desktop parts for power users) after all these years we have been waiting for that. And it wouldn't have cost effective way to expand it. It is pretty different thing to demand pro users ("best" config) to use most expensive parts for expanding, than to ask the same from power users ("good" config), who are not making so much money with their mac, that anything goes.

Apple is usually aiming to higher profits by using as big orders of as few parts as possible. MP has been problematic, since they are selling so small numbers of it and even those have been divided to 5 different cpus and about same amount of gpus.
I guess that this time they are tring to cut the expenses and there will be only one model, maybe with two clock speeds.

Just wondering what will the cheapest mac with unsoldered ram, dGPU and FusionDrive cost at the end of this year... Now they are bundling 27" glossy screen with that package even if you don't want it... and staring at $1800...

 

[herr_neumann]

I'm not sure which person coined this term "MacMidi" but I'm wondering if they're aware that MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface and Macs have always been big players with this type of interface both in the past and even today so calling a "mid-grade" Mac a "Midi" is a very bad idea, in my opinion. The first time I noticed this term being used I immediately thought the topic had somehow moved to Logic Pro or something.

Thank you.

 

[TyPod]

I'm not sure which person coined this term "MacMidi" but I'm wondering if they're aware that MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface and Macs have always been big players with this type of interface both in the past and even today so calling a "mid-grade" Mac a "Midi" is a very bad idea, in my opinion. The first time I noticed this term being used I immediately thought the topic had somehow moved to Logic Pro or something.

Me too.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm not sure which person coined this term "MacMidi" but I'm wondering if they're aware that MIDI means Musical Instrument Digital Interface and Macs have always been big players with this type of interface both in the past and even today so calling a "mid-grade" Mac a "Midi" is a very bad idea, in my opinion. The first time I noticed this term being used I immediately thought the topic had somehow moved to Logic Pro or something.

Me too.
Image

Please be as indignant with the folks using "TB" to mean "T-Bolt", when it's meant something else for decades.

 

[MattDSLR]

What a mistake from apple

I thing they will drive some people away from Macpros

I just bought another 6 core mac pro after this crazy announcement from apple

I have no room on my desks for multiple drive bays

My mac pros have four 4 tb drives in them with 64 gig of ram, and two blue ray drives

unfortunately I will not be able to that with the new garbage can from apple

why would they design something that you could add drives to

no blue ray drive?

apple wake up and build some thing that we can use

We do not want faster mac mini, we want a true work station

 

[Tussen69]

I thing they will drive some people away from Macpros

I just bought another 6 core mac pro after this crazy announcement from apple

I have no room on my desks for multiple drive bays

My mac pros have four 4 tb drives in them with 64 gig of ram, and two blue ray drives

unfortunately I will not be able to that with the new garbage can from apple

why would they design something that you could add drives to

no blue ray drive?

apple wake up and build some thing that we can use

We do not want faster mac mini, we want a true work station

I dont get this. Are you one of those who thought it was a bad idea for Apple to remove the floppy drive on the iMac years ago ??

People thought when Apple removed the floppy drive that the company where crazy ...(heres to the crazy ones btw)

Apple thought the floppy where obsolete because of performance etc etc

People complained back then that others storage medium where to expensive etc etc ..

and today its seems crazy for one to include a floppy drive in a computer ..

So whats the statement of the Mac Pro 2013 .

simple . Apple think

the blu-ray is obsolete . you cant write 1.2 GB/sec data to a blurry
the superdrive is obsolete . internet and portable flash drives are better
the HDD is soon obsolete . SSD PCIe are the future

and people will think that 1 TB SSD storage is way to expensive and that HDD and blu-ray are less expensive ...

hdd and blu-ray are the floppy drive of 2013 and soon to be gone ...

and while in the transition there will be Thunderbolt HDD arrays like the Drobo 5D and such its a matter of time until that is all SSD .

in 3-5 years the Mac Pro will likely future 2 x SSD PCIe card with 10 TB of storage each and we will likely laugh at ourself how crazy the day where when we where using spinning mediums like bulky hdd drives

I´m looking forward to the future. it will be an expensive time but haven't it always been ...

and Apples seems often the one leading the way ..

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Please be as indignant with the folks using "TB" to mean "T-Bolt", when it's meant something else for decades.

Unfortunately, we've moved to a society of acronyms and texting has only made this worse by a magnitude. I always thought computers would make people smarter since early on it took a some knowledge to operate and program them, etc., but the evidence is now against it. People let calculators do basic math for them. They can't write in complete sentences. The machines they use are slowly controlling them instead of the other way around. Frankly, when the machines started thinking for them, it became their civilization, their time. The future is their world Morpheus. The future is their time.

 

[milo]

New MP will be more expensive

We don't know that yet, some people think it will be far more expensive while others think it may be cheaper than the current ones. Time will tell. I do agree that sales are very much dependent on pricing.

 

[GermanyChris]

I dont get this. Are you one of those who thought it was a bad idea for Apple to remove the floppy drive on the iMac years ago ??

People thought when Apple removed the floppy drive that the company where crazy ...(heres to the crazy ones btw)

Apple thought the floppy where obsolete because of performance etc etc

People complained back then that others storage medium where to expensive etc etc ..

and today its seems crazy for one to include a floppy drive in a computer ..

So whats the statement of the Mac Pro 2013 .

simple . Apple think

the blu-ray is obsolete . you cant write 1.2 GB/sec data to a blurry
the superdrive is obsolete . internet and portable flash drives are better
the HDD is soon obsolete . SSD PCIe are the future

and people will think that 1 TB SSD storage is way to expensive and that HDD and blu-ray are less expensive ...

hdd and blu-ray are the floppy drive of 2013 and soon to be gone ...

and while in the transition there will be Thunderbolt HDD arrays like the Drobo 5D and such its a matter of time until that is all SSD .

in 3-5 years the Mac Pro will likely future 2 x SSD PCIe card with 10 TB of storage each and we will likely laugh at ourself how crazy the day where when we where using spinning mediums like bulky hdd drives

I´m looking forward to the future. it will be an expensive time but haven't it always been ...

and Apples seems often the one leading the way ..

BluRay has two decades ahead of it, DVD still probably has another.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

BluRay has two decades ahead of it, DVD still probably has another.

It's difficult for me to agree with this at all. All the home video shops are out of business around here. All that's left is RedBox and it's a pretty darn limited selection. So then you're stuck using Netflix and you have to WAIT to get your video in the mail. Meanwhile, the rest of us not stuck in the Jurassic Period can rent a movie online in less than a minute, download a purchased movie in less than an hour in HD and don't have to store hundreds of discs all over the house and then go looking for it upstairs when we find the jacket empty in the rack because Junior borrowed it and didn't put it back... And then when you find it, it's all scratched up and has jelly on it.... ack! No, I just scan my movies by genre or alphabetical order on the screen and hit PLAY and boom, there it is. If I want to finish watching it upstairs, I can do so no problem. Sorry, but DISCS ARE DEAD. Some of you just don't know it yet. Yeah, Blu-Ray will be around for awhile since SuperHD will only be available on it at first, etc. and those that think they can see a massive difference in quality will religiously buy them for some time but as download speeds get ever faster and hard drive storage gets ever bigger, even quality won't be an issue for long.

Frankly, I'd expect to start seeing movies distributed on some variation of a flash drive or SD card once the price becomes low enough (fast approaching from what I've seen; a 32GB card can be had for under $30 now. Give it a few more years and that will cost under $10. You'll be able to put a blank one in a machine and it will copy a rental over for you rather than having to return a disc at a RedBox like location. Or you'll be able to buy a full Blu-Ray quality disc in a package not much larger than a postage stamp at a store to keep and transferring it to a hard drive type storage medium will be as simple as transferring a photo off an SD card. WTF would anyone want to use a slow-arse DISC for that? (i.e. a 16x Blu-Ray reader still maxes out at 72MB/sec while even current USB 3 thumb drives can go over 150MB/sec and rising while I've seen SSD do over 500MB/sec and they're only going to get faster and cheaper over time while BD is pretty much written in stone (i.e. you can only spin the discs so fast before physics gets in the way big time).

 

[AidenShaw]

WTF would anyone want to use a slow-arse DISC for that? (i.e. a 16x Blu-Ray reader still maxes out at 72MB/sec while even current USB 3 thumb drives can go over 150MB/sec and rising while I've seen SSD do over 500MB/sec and they're only going to get faster and cheaper over time while BD is pretty much written in stone (i.e. you can only spin the discs so fast before physics gets in the way big time).

WTF cares as long as it takes less than 2 hours to read the Blu-ray?

Seriously, as long as the movie doesn't stutter the disc is fast enough.

It doesn't matter if a more expensive technology is faster....

 

[toke lahti]

Sorry, but DISCS ARE DEAD. Some of you just don't know it yet.

Sorry, no bonus. Maybe you don't know that they are selling more bd's this year than last year? Ie. more alive than ever!

 

[AidenShaw]

Sorry, no bonus. Maybe you don't know that they are selling more bd's this year than last year? Ie. more alive than ever!

The reality distortion field doesn't let facts interfere with dogma.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

WTF cares as long as it takes less than 2 hours to read the Blu-ray?

Seriously, as long as the movie doesn't stutter the disc is fast enough.

It doesn't matter if a more expensive technology is faster....

WTF cares? All of us that have moved beyond the ancient spinning disc formats that are destined for the history waste dump, that's who. As for the speed, I was referring to transfer times to move the movie onto a hard drive.

Frankly, WTF would ANYONE actually want to play a movie off a disc unless it's a rental that will only get watched once and even then why would anyone want to rent an actual disc when it could be streamed in a few seconds instead of having to drive somewhere or wait for it to be mailed? BD is SO inconvenient.

Like I said, that involves finding the disc, removing it from storage, moving it to the player (on whatever floor of the house) and hoping it's not damaged (if you have other family members, especially kids). Then you'll probably be FORCED to watch advertisements and movie previews, not to mention retarded animated menus, all of which just detract from the primary objective, which is to just watch the freaking program already. You pay for a movie and they force you to watch ads. Screw that. Dumping the disc at least lets you bypass all the garbage on it and let you just start the movie already, which I find important for anything I'm going to watch more than once.

Discs just plain suck. They are old school archaic technology and should go in the dumpster where they belong (kind of like those laserdiscs in Back To The Future Part II behind the Cafe '80s). The Compact Disc came out in 1982 for god's sake and all these disc formats are just bastard children of that format. It's time to move on already. Solid-state is the future and perhaps holographic cube storage beyond that.

Sorry, no bonus. Maybe you don't know that they are selling more bd's this year than last year? Ie. more alive than ever!

More alive than what, though? Selling 12 discs this year instead of 10 last year (relatively speaking) doesn't make it "alive". Sorry, but it's a dead format designed for people that don't know how to handle technology (you know those people that could not figure out how to get the clock on their VCRs to stop blinking; yeah that type of person is who it's designed for). If you like it so much, go buy a Windows machine. Macs have moved into the future. Windows is dragging aluminum substrate and plastic behind it like a boat anchor.

The sad thing is a I have a BD drive for my Mac Mini. It's a USB3 one at that. It gets used to load old CD-Rom and DVD-Roms games into a virtualized Windows environment and to transfer the occasional Blu-Ray movie I might get from a well meaning relative onto the computer's hard drive and loaded into iTunes and XBMC. VLC can play the discs directly, which is OK for a preview, but anything I might actually watch again gets dumped. VLC can play the dumped discs at full BD quality so re-encoding isn't actually required.

 

[AidenShaw]

WTF cares? All of us that have moved beyond the ancient spinning disc formats that are destined for the history waste dump, that's who. As for the speed, I was referring to transfer times to move the movie onto a hard drive.

You are a special case. In many ways.

You're watching them on your ancient LCD display that's destined "for the history waste dump", no?

I don't need to say more.

 

[aggri1]

WTF cares? All of us
...
gets dumped. VLC can play the dumped discs at full BD quality so re-encoding isn't actually required.

Clearly someone feels very strongly about this issue.

 

[MattDSLR]

I dont get this. Are you one of those who thought it was a bad idea for Apple to remove the floppy drive on the iMac years ago ??

People thought when Apple removed the floppy drive that the company where crazy ...(heres to the crazy ones btw)

Apple thought the floppy where obsolete because of performance etc etc

People complained back then that others storage medium where to expensive etc etc ..

and today its seems crazy for one to include a floppy drive in a computer ..

So whats the statement of the Mac Pro 2013 .

simple . Apple think

the blu-ray is obsolete . you cant write 1.2 GB/sec data to a blurry
the superdrive is obsolete . internet and portable flash drives are better
the HDD is soon obsolete . SSD PCIe are the future

and people will think that 1 TB SSD storage is way to expensive and that HDD and blu-ray are less expensive ...

hdd and blu-ray are the floppy drive of 2013 and soon to be gone ...

and while in the transition there will be Thunderbolt HDD arrays like the Drobo 5D and such its a matter of time until that is all SSD .

in 3-5 years the Mac Pro will likely future 2 x SSD PCIe card with 10 TB of storage each and we will likely laugh at ourself how crazy the day where when we where using spinning mediums like bulky hdd drives

I´m looking forward to the future. it will be an expensive time but haven't it always been ...

and Apples seems often the one leading the way ..

Ok
If you are a photographer or a videographer how will you provide your clients with products
You can most definitely keep your mac pro mini, but for us is useless
Also Drobo is a horrible solution I had drobo S for a year and try to get it to work but it was always slowing down my macs
It took forever to start up and shoot down.

Known issues with Drobo, way to slow

For someone that does not have real use for a true work station why do you even look at mac pro
why don't you just buy mac mini, if you just looking to add drobo to it, then go for it

I need something that will work for my business and the new mac pro mini will take twice as much room on my desktop with two ray drives and two blue ray drives all external,

I will need to buy new desks for all the extra junk that will have to stay on my desk

Very smart apple

Lets give us another cube that will last maybe a year or two

 

[GermanyChris]

It's difficult for me to agree with this at all. All the home video shops are out of business around here. All that's left is RedBox and it's a pretty darn limited selection. So then you're stuck using Netflix and you have to WAIT to get your video in the mail. Meanwhile, the rest of us not stuck in the Jurassic Period can rent a movie online in less than a minute, download a purchased movie in less than an hour in HD and don't have to store hundreds of discs all over the house and then go looking for it upstairs when we find the jacket empty in the rack because Junior borrowed it and didn't put it back... And then when you find it, it's all scratched up and has jelly on it.... ack! No, I just scan my movies by genre or alphabetical order on the screen and hit PLAY and boom, there it is. If I want to finish watching it upstairs, I can do so no problem. Sorry, but DISCS ARE DEAD. Some of you just don't know it yet. Yeah, Blu-Ray will be around for awhile since SuperHD will only be available on it at first, etc. and those that think they can see a massive difference in quality will religiously buy them for some time but as download speeds get ever faster and hard drive storage gets ever bigger, even quality won't be an issue for long.

Frankly, I'd expect to start seeing movies distributed on some variation of a flash drive or SD card once the price becomes low enough (fast approaching from what I've seen; a 32GB card can be had for under $30 now. Give it a few more years and that will cost under $10. You'll be able to put a blank one in a machine and it will copy a rental over for you rather than having to return a disc at a RedBox like location. Or you'll be able to buy a full Blu-Ray quality disc in a package not much larger than a postage stamp at a store to keep and transferring it to a hard drive type storage medium will be as simple as transferring a photo off an SD card. WTF would anyone want to use a slow-arse DISC for that? (i.e. a 16x Blu-Ray reader still maxes out at 72MB/sec while even current USB 3 thumb drives can go over 150MB/sec and rising while I've seen SSD do over 500MB/sec and they're only going to get faster and cheaper over time while BD is pretty much written in stone (i.e. you can only spin the discs so fast before physics gets in the way big time).

Agree or not BR will be with us for the next 20 years 4K will on BR also..

 

[H2SO4]

Agree or not BR will be with us for the next 20 years 4K will on BR also..

Have to say I'm with GC on this. Discs have a bit of life left in them. The jump from the optical format to USB/download isn't as big as from VHS to DVD I don't think.
We went from analogue to digital before and the shift was massive because of that change alone but not this time.
SJ talked about the Mac Pro being a truck, ie a vehicle that has enough storage/space/versatility as standard to do what you want straight out of the box.

This new one is just the cab which you are expected to make a road train out of. Crap.
I'll still buy it tho.