Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming

[*LTD*]

Tried every single possible way to create signal loss. It just doesn't happen. Speed tested edge, 3G and wifi.
Stop talking nonsense. My ip4 is just fine as huge majority of the ip4s are fine.

Not according to the trolls and astroturfers in this thread.

Seems to be a manufacturing issue, if anything, not a design issue. Meanwhile the competition churns out crap that is lousy *by design.* Even a perfectly functioning Zune is still a Zune, or rather *was* was Zune. LOL

If it's such a problem, why are these things continuing to sell out, with so many happy customers?

 

[OllyW]

I wonder how many times this "argument" has been debunked in this and previous threads. 500 times? 1000 times?

It's actually quite funny. Every 2-3 pages a new apologist shows up (obviously having not read the last 2-3 pages), and calls everybody idiots because "his phone is fine".

At this point, someone sensible might try to actually explain the issue to the guy, who fairly quickly disappears.

Then the next apologist comes along.

Not according to the trolls and astroturfers in this thread.

Seems to be a manufacturing issue, if anything, not a design issue. Meanwhile the competition churns out crap that is lousy *by design.* Even a perfectly functioning Zune is still a Zune, or rather *was* was Zune. LOL

If it's such a problem, why are these things continuing to sell out, with so many happy customers?

Perfect timing.

 

[Dooger]

Perfect timing.

Haha! You know it's serious when Apple have to send in their Chief Cheerleader, Miss *LTD* herself.
Only problem is that LTD needs a resync with HQ. Apple seem to think it's a software issue while LTD is blaming the manufacturers. Maybe he should phone Apple and tell them to retract their "software issue" statement and instead blame the manufacturers like he's doing. A united front is what's needed here guys!

 

[VSMacOne]

Not according to the trolls and astroturfers in this thread.

Seems to be a manufacturing issue, if anything, not a design issue. Meanwhile the competition churns out crap that is lousy *by design.* Even a perfectly functioning Zune is still a Zune, or rather *was* was Zune. LOL

If it's such a problem, why are these things continuing to sell out, with so many happy customers?

I don't think yours is a comment that will remain true for much longer if Apple doesn't do something about this whole situation. Yes the iphone4 is selling for now, but if enough people get frustrated by reception issue we might see plenty of returns.
I personally can't return mine because our company has a contract with AT&T and I've already sold my 3GS. And I love everything this phone can do. Is it too much to expect it to fulfill it's primary purpose (phone) no matter how it's held?!?
But eventhough I can't do anything ab the iPhone, Apples reaction to this will have an effect on my future purchases from them. And I think there are others in the same boat.

 

[grahamwright1]

Enough with this nonsense of suing apple. I have a much bigger case against god.
I purchased a self repairing human body from the almighty store and waited a full 18 years for it to reach full maturity......since then it has been nothing but service.
The shock absorbers also known as "knees" are starting to fail.
The air intake is partially blocked by a reaction known as "hey fever"
The top coat of paint "hair" is thinning and falling out.
These are just a few of the problems I am having and while I have visited official service centres called hospitals, I have only been given partial fixes and no software upgrades to help with these conditions.

The returns policy is awful with only a limited window of 24 weeks to cancel an order from date placed.

Talk about a lousy product! Let's sue!!!!

Absolutely the best post of this thread!

 

[*LTD*]

Haha! You know it's serious when Apple have to send in their Chief Cheerleader, Miss *LTD* herself.
Only problem is that LTD needs a resync with HQ. Apple seem to think it's a software issue while LTD is blaming the manufacturers. Maybe he should phone Apple and tell them to retract their "software issue" statement and instead blame the manufacturers like he's doing. A united front is what's needed here guys!

When your Ferrari has a slight crack in the driver's side window, it's still a Ferrari. Replace the window.

When your Google/Fragmandroid phone is a poor copy of a superior product, it's still a poor copy of a superior product. Nothing you can do about that.

Stuff happens. But when it happens to Apple, it's a minor aberration that is soon remedied. That's the way it goes.

 

[apple2382]

When your Ferrari has a slight crack in the driver's side window, it's still a Ferrari. Replace the window.

When your Google/Fragmandroid phone is a poor copy of a superior product, it's still a poor copy of a superior product. Nothing you can do about that.

***** happens. But when it happens to Apple, it's a minor aberration that is soon remedied. That's the way it goes.

Far from being a poor copy. It actually does stand out on it's own.

 

[egret]

There will be no "FIX".

The antenna is performing EXACTLY the way Apple designed it to work. You may not like it, but that is the bottom line. Most people either understand it or it is not a issue that causes them any angst.

The cliff jumpers and whiners need to let it go and stop letting a phone ruin their lives.

OR.........

You could just return it, unless you are unable to break the evil spell it has over you.

 

[mdickerson]

You can't de-tune an antenna if you can't make ohmic contact with it.

Not true. You can very easily "de-tune" an antenna via capacitive or inductive coupling. You also drastically affect VSWR, which is (I believe) what is happening with the phone.

 

[dazweeja]

The antenna is performing EXACTLY the way Apple designed it to work.

I can't tell if you're serious or not. Are you saying that Apple designed the antenna so that the iPhone loses reception completely (in not-uncommon low-reception areas) when held in the exact same way as in their own advertisements?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/hey-apple-youre-holding-it-wrong/

They designed it so that loyal Apple customers who could previously make phone calls on their iPhones in their own homes now can't when they hold the phone as they have always held it and in the way they hold all other phones?

 

[KnightWRX]

Tried every single possible way to create signal loss. It just doesn't happen. Speed tested edge, 3G and wifi.
Stop talking nonsense. My ip4 is just fine as huge majority of the ip4s are fine.

No, your iPhone 4 is not fine. Again since this is sooooooo hard to understand, read the Anandtech article on the subject that has been linked to dozen of times :

The iPhone 4 suffers from a -20 dbm attenuation when held in the hand in a way that bridges both antennas together. This is the main issue that everyone is denouncing and that Apple is effectively brushing off.

Your iPhone 4 suffers from this issue, every iPhone 4 suffers from it. It's not a software error, it's not a manufacturing error. It's a design flaw.

The reason you are not seeing the issue is that you are in an area that has a signal higher than -71 dbm to start with. The 20 dbm attenuation is thus not dropping you below the -91 dbm threshold to bring your bars below 5.

In all probability, once Apple issues their software fix to the bar display, we should be seeing more iPhone 4s suffer from the issue, except in a "less dramatic" way. They might start to lose 1 or 2 bars of signal. However, they will still be suffering from a 20 dbm attenuation.

The day you walk into a low signal area, you will have this problem. This affects everyone. Anyone claiming to have an iPhone 4 with low signal when not held and not losing Service when held as yet to provide video evidence of it. It has been asked many times of people like Aggie who claims this is so. She keeps saying "My word is good enough". Funny, not how it works.

Perfect timing.

Except for the fact that *LTD* has no grasp on the issue at all and doesn't understand it. Again, he claims this is only a few iPhone 4s from a select batch that didn't receive a proper dielectric coating. There has been 0 evidence that any iPhone 4s have such a coating. No one has yet posted evidence of such. People claiming to be in low signal areas with 2 or 3 bars while the phone is sitting on the table and say they can hold and short the antenna and not have it result in a signal loss have yet to post any evidence of their claims.

Meanwhile, the 20 dbm attenuation is very real and documented.

 

[egret]

I can't tell if you're serious or not. Are you saying that Apple designed the antenna so that the iPhone loses reception completely (in not-uncommon low-reception areas) when held in the exact same way as in their own advertisements?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/hey-apple-youre-holding-it-wrong/

They designed it so that loyal Apple customers who could previously make phone calls on their iPhones in their own homes now can't when they hold the phone as they have always held it and in the way they hold all other phones?

Yes...you got it!!!! Congratulations. Now you can go ahead and make the critical decision that plagues your life and others: Do I return it and buy a perfectly functioning Droid, Nexus 1 with much more/better features and be free to pursue a life of religious fulfillment OR keep the iP4 and stay here and bitch and always have "problems".

It will be interesting to see the choice the miserable iP4 owners make.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes...you got it!!!! Congratulations. Now you can go ahead and make the critical decision that plagues your life and others: Do I return it and buy a perfectly functioning Droid, Nexus 1 with much more/better features and be free to pursue a life of religious fulfillment OR keep the iP4 and stay here and bitch and always have "problems".

It will be interesting to see the choice the miserable iP4 owners make.

Your choice is a non-choice. People can return the iPhone 4 and get an Android, BB, Meego or Symbian phone instead and still come here and bitch about it.

 

[OllyW]

Except for the fact that *LTD* has no grasp on the issue at all and doesn't understand it. Again, he claims this is only a few iPhone 4s from a select batch that didn't receive a proper dielectric coating. There has been 0 evidence that any iPhone 4s have such a coating. No one has yet posted evidence of such. People claiming to be in low signal areas with 2 or 3 bars while the phone is sitting on the table and say they can hold and short the antenna and not have it result in a signal loss have yet to post any evidence of their claims.

Meanwhile, the 20 dbm attenuation is very real and documented.

Mine must be one of his "bad batch" then.

 

[kernkraft]

Not according to the trolls and astroturfers in this thread.

Seems to be a manufacturing issue, if anything, not a design issue. Meanwhile the competition churns out crap that is lousy *by design.* Even a perfectly functioning Zune is still a Zune, or rather *was* was Zune. LOL

If it's such a problem, why are these things continuing to sell out, with so many happy customers?

It's such a manufacturing fault that EVEN Apple did not dare to come up with such a lousy excuse.

"trolls, astrosurfers... competition churns out crap that is lousy by design..." - you keep coming up with the most pathetic excuses for a corporation that - from time to time - gives reason for dissatisfaction.

What's the matter with you? Divorced? Unemployed? Too old and working as a night guard or too young and not having any life experience? I bet that this sort of mad fanatism is where probably Mr. Jobs would just say - God, these people should get a life!

When your Ferrari has a slight crack in the driver's side window, it's still a Ferrari. Replace the window.

When your Google/Fragmandroid phone is a poor copy of a superior product, it's still a poor copy of a superior product. Nothing you can do about that.

Stuff happens. But when it happens to Apple, it's a minor aberration that is soon remedied. That's the way it goes.

1.) If you are comparing the iPhone to Ferraris, then you have no understanding of luxury, the tech industry and cars.

2.) "Fragmandroid"?! What the hell is that?! One of your insult-terms for expressing lack of maturity?

3.) Here, actually, your imaginary Apple iCar has such a design fault that if it really was a car, nobody would be driving it. Probably the engine would be designed in a way that it would cut off if you revved it a bit. You can glamorise it, it still remains an issue that Apple cannot deny anymore (although they tried their best to mislead people by downplaying it and refusing to admit what seems to be obvious for enough experts).

 

[egret]

Your choice is a non-choice. People can return the iPhone 4 and get an Android, BB, Meego or Symbian phone instead and still come here and bitch about it.

ummkay....sounds sane to me.

 

[mdickerson]

Meanwhile, the 20 dbm attenuation is very real and documented.

Attenuation is expressed in dB not dBm.

 

[shk718]

So basically what apple is saying - if you're in an area with a good signal hold the phone any way you want you will not drop a call - if you're in an area with a bad signal - if you hold it slightly differently - or - keep in in a case (which most of us do anyway) this phone will hold on to a call better than any previous version. What is so wrong with this? i'm getting fewer dropped calls and the download speeds are incredible. i love this phone!

 

[furi0usbee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgKk9velvlY

 

[kernkraft]

Now that Apple has ANOTHER killer device out there, the competition is ramping up the FUD and throwing fodder to trolls and astroturfers in order to run with it.

There was actually a poll about this "issue" on MR??? You've gotta be kidding! ROFL, it's like asking white supremacists about mixed-race marriages.

i can't wait until the iPhone 4 arrives in Canada later this month so I can upgrade from my 3GS on the Rogers network and continue to get flawless reception.

The only thing this phone kills is reception. Maybe with your judgement and common sense, if you've got any left.

You can put the usual LOL or ROFL or BMAKA in your dirt-throwing; you can compare people who disagree with you to white supremacists; in the end you represent something so naive, so pathetic, immature, insensitive and uneducated that you'll be on most people's ignore list.

 

[jerry333]

how many people here restrict their connection to 3G?

Not me. So far I've racked up 1139 drop-free minutes on the iPhone 4.

 

[AllGaussian]

Could be relevant

Not true. You can very easily "de-tune" an antenna via capacitive or inductive coupling. You also drastically affect VSWR, which is (I believe) what is happening with the phone.

Several days and I think I saw VSWR mentioned twice. I think you got it. Every antenna couples with an amp (either input or output). Every amp must protect itself if the antenna stops being well behaved (ie a palm). I was cringing when people where bridging the gap with coins. I think apple has some software handles they can use to improve the situation. They will just have to be less conservative with the protection of the amp.

The trade off they made was valid given that they had to trump the Nokia patents http://www.m-cam.com/patentlyobvious/20100514_nokia.pdf or there is no product going forward.

Apple seem to have a good grip on the human capacitance model. They have taken risks before. Just ask a person who has long fingernails. They had to adjust how they interact with these newer phones.

So, not really adding here but please don't bridge the gap with zero ohms.

 

[kernkraft]

Oops! Caught in the act...

i can't wait until the iPhone 4 arrives in Canada later this month so I can upgrade from my 3GS on the Rogers network and continue to get flawless reception.

I've had an iPhone 3G since August 2008.

iPad on the way next month. iPhone 4 upgrade will be this month as soon as Rogers gets it.

I might even get a new Mac Mini to replace my WD HDTV Mediaplayer, although it's a great little price of hardware, I must say. I'll be interested to see what Apple does with AppleTV.

I suppose, two imaginary iPhones work better than one. How many imaginary friends have you got?

 

[mdickerson]

Several days and I think I saw VSWR mentioned twice. I think you got it. Every antenna couples with an amp (either input or output). Every amp must protect itself if the antenna stops being well behaved (ie a palm). I was cringing when people where bridging the gap with coins. I think apple has some software handles they can use to improve the situation. They will just have to be less conservative with the protection of the amp.

The trade off they made was valid given that they had to trump the Nokia patents http://www.m-cam.com/patentlyobvious/20100514_nokia.pdf or there is no product going forward.

Apple seem to have a good grip on the human capacitance model. They have taken risks before. Just ask a person who has long fingernails. They had to adjust how they interact with these newer phones.

So, not really adding here but please don't bridge the gap with zero ohms.

Agreed. The interesting thing is that the iPhone antennas all read close to a short anyway when sitting on the table. I get about 1 ohm (on or off). However, on a network analyzer, I get a Smith Chart around 50 ohms.

It's important to keep in mind that a resistor at RF doesn't look like a resistor any more. It looks more like a capacitor and inductor (reactive load). So, by touching the antenna with your body, you're adding reactive load at high frequencies not shorting it out. Unfortunately, by actually shorting it with a coin, you really are shorting it at all frequencies.

While the focus has been on these stupid bars, I'd agree with you as well that there may be something else they can do with how the amp reacts to these odd loads or excessive reflections. While it is a hardware issue, there may be some performance tweaks they can do and rather than get everybody all confused about what they did, they'll just talk about the bars.

 

[AllGaussian]

Agreed. The interesting thing is that the iPhone antennas all read close to a short anyway when sitting on the table. I get about 1 ohm (on or off). However, on a network analyzer, I get a Smith Chart around 50 ohms.

It's important to keep in mind that a resistor at RF doesn't look like a resistor any more. It looks more like a capacitor and inductor (reactive load). So, by touching the antenna with your body, you're adding reactive load at high frequencies not shorting it out. Unfortunately, by actually shorting it with a coin, you really are shorting it at all frequencies.

While the focus has been on these stupid bars, I'd agree with you as well that there may be something else they can do with how the amp reacts to these odd loads or excessive reflections. While it is a hardware issue, there may be some performance tweaks they can do and rather than get everybody all confused about what they did, they'll just talk about the bars.

Yes they handled this communication badly. I can tell you from personal experience that everyone hates the dreaded 'R' word.

Wait! You modeled the antenna?