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People that know me know my word is good. If you knew skunk, you’d know his is as well. Anyway, I’ve already seen people on these forums show their videos, and all it results in is people saying, “Not if you were in my location.”

That's because again, videos with 5 bars of signal are worthless. 5 bars is displayed on too big a range of signal, and the 20 dbm drop in signal might not change the 5 bars to nothing.

If your signal is -71 dbm or higher, holding the phone in the problem spot doesn't change the bar display. You'll have 5 bars even while your phone suffers the issue.

How hard is that to grasp ? This is what people say when they say "Not if you were in my location".

Now show us a video of an iPhone 4 with 2 bars on the table and 2 bars in your hand. That will be definite proof that your word is good. As it stands, it's as good as ours is, except we have evidence of the problem, you don't have evidence of your lack of a problem. We've provided an easy way for you to provide it.

Ball is in your court. Do it.

That doesn’t even make sense. Show me a post where I’m saying someone doesn’t have the problem they say they have? Yeah….you can’t.

That's not what I fixed your statement to say. You want the whiners to go away as much as they want the apologists (of which you are part of) to go away.

In the end, they are free to not click your "iPhone 4 works" thread as much as you are free not to read these long whine threads.

Did you read my comment, or are you just typing to hear your keys clack? Here, I'll quote it again. This time, wipe the drool off your chin and read carefully...

Please explain how changing the value of signal at which 5 bars is displayed fix a drop in signal ?

Again, you're not understanding the issue or the proposed fix. This doesn't take any RF or antenna knowledge, this proposed fix is not one for the issue being discussed. It's a fix to a bar display issue.

Both are unrelated.
 
I'm not letting Apple do anything to me. Where did I say that I owned an iPhone 4? If anything Apple's got you by the balzz. You refuse to return the phone and put up with poor reception and keep on ranting about it. Please do yourself the favor and stop the insults. You're doing it to more than just me and it's against forum rules.

Suggesting that someone is taking the p**s out of you is not an insult. Calling you dumb would be, but I'm not going to do that. ;)
 
Suggesting that someone is taking the p**s out of you is not an insult. Calling you dumb would be, but I'm not going to do that. ;)

Oh please don't waste your time calling me dumb, you're too busy ranting about your iPhone until you get your way. LOL. You say that Apple's got their way right now?? How so? They are getting massive bad press right now and are pressured to fix the iPhone for the ranting customers that are stomping their feet until they get a pacifier shoved in their mouth. ;). You then go on and rant that Apple's got people's money right now? Well, I'm pretty sure you know how to rectify that now don't you? It's called a refund.

And BTW, you telling people that they are allowing Apple to walk all over them is an insult to those posters.
 
i can't wait until the iPhone 4 arrives in Canada later this month so I can upgrade from my 3GS on the Rogers network and continue to get flawless reception.

Hilarious :

IMG_0027.png
 
I'm not defending Apple. Look at the first line of my post describing how I felt about Steve Jobs suggestion about holding the phone. What I AM doing is seeing it from both sides and customers should see it from both sides as well. Stock holders ARE customers too ya know. Apple is a very high profile company and if their stock plummets and they end up a loser company you can best believe that we will be living in Microsoft LA LA land, do you want that? The reason for the existence of the Android phone and it's store is because of Apple showing competition to Google, Microsoft has been no competition for goodness sake.

Of course Apple needs customers to stay alive just like any company, they have actually made a statement and said they are fixing the issue. Many people here refuse to give them a chance saying that Apple is lying and there's no way to fix the problem, that's inhuman and it shows from a customer standpoint people are just acting like whiny babies stamping their feet and throwing a tantrum.
My issue with this whole thread is that many of the same people (sorry, but you're included in this Citrate) repeatedly rant in disbelief and call Apple liars but refuse to return their iPhone 4's. I know for a fact that if I'm unhappy with the company I spent money with and I have zero belief that they will fix what they said they would and I'm not happy with the statement they put out I will return my product and buy from a competitor.

So funny how many people PRAISED the Android, Droid, DroidX (whatever they are called) but after the iPhone 4 the praises went sorta quite. Well, if the iPhone 4 sux, and you have disbelief in Apple then why not return the iPhone 4 and go buy the Android???:confused: Is it suddenly not worth you returning your defective iPhone for, or is it just the usual trolls on this forum that just want to stir things up on MR and were never even considering the Android?:rolleyes:


This is my oppion on this hole thing. Anyone that knows anything about buseness sees what's going on here. Apple knows they have a big problem. They are going to do what's right for apple as a company. They can care less about Billy John on some blog. There is a price tied to everything. Apple might want to do the right thing here, but at what price?

The people here complaining are being called crybabies by the diehards. If apple makes things right, it makes EVER ONES phone better. The die hards say just return it. Well there is still a restocking fee with AT&T. There is also issues on getting them to cancel the contract and activate a 3G.. The people on here should work together on getting apple to fix this issue.

The main reason I bought a cell phone is to receive and make calls. The iPhone 4 doesn't do this well. EVERY thing else about the phone is clearly above the computition. That's what makes people so irritated. Fix the signal problem and everything is perfect, but instead we post on here and get blasted by people that don't mind owning a defect device.

If I done something to my phone to make it drop calls and have no service, and I took the phone to apple and they told me I could buy a bumper and everything would be fine. I would buy it. I don't think it's remotely right for a company to ask you to purchase a rubber for their product to get it to preform the way it's suppose to do. It should have been in the box. Just like the charger was. Apple knew of this issue......
 
Go's my way? I only want what I have paid for, nothing more. At the moment it's going Apple's way. They have peoples money and have provided a defective product.

Early adoption is not for everyone. Next time sit it out until a product has been demonstrated to meet all your needs.

Normally I'd suggest a Happy Meal to help take the edge off, but somehow I think the toy inside would cause you more disappointment :)
 
Oh please don't waste your time calling me dumb, you're too busy ranting about your iPhone until you get your way. LOL. You say that Apple's got their way right now?? How so? They are getting massive bad press right now and are pressured to fix the iPhone for the ranting customers that are stomping their feet until they get a pacifier shoved in their mouth. ;). You then go on and rant that Apple's got people's money right now? Well, I'm pretty sure you know how to rectify that now don't you? It's called a refund.

And BTW, you telling people that they are allowing Apple to walk all over them is an insult to those posters.

I didn't call you dumb? Let's leave it there hey, you're embarrassing yourself.
 
Please explain how changing the value of signal at which 5 bars is displayed fix a drop in signal ?

Again, you're not understanding the issue or the proposed fix. This doesn't take any RF or antenna knowledge, this proposed fix is not one for the issue being discussed. It's a fix to a bar display issue.

Both are unrelated.

Then return the phone for a full refund. You have your money back, Apple see another return on the records, and you don't look like a six year old with a wet diaper.
 
I did this with the speedtest, but think this video shows it more clearly in that I simply have to lightly TOUCH the black bar and the connection is throttled, slows whatever. On the upload side, again I just TOUCH the black bar and the upload is COMPLETELY STOPPED, let go, it starts again, touch again and boom it STOPS DEAD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H795Qz-PBQc

Wow. You're video is very compelling evidence that there is a design flaw with the iphone 4 antenna.

I'm a bit surprised no one has commented on the links to the videos you and I have posted. Instead, there appears to be a camp that steadfastly asserts that there's no problem with the antenna design as long as you hold the phone correctly.

In other words, the argument is that as long as those who naturally hold a phone in their left hand don't touch the lower left hand corner -- everything is fine. If people had to avoid touching the upper part of the phone, the argument would make more sense. But to say don't touch the lower left side of the phone if you're in certain locations or you'll lose the connection/download speed ....

That's ridiculous!

Here are the links that support the results of your experiment.

.... These videos/pictures below demonstrate that this problem is related to an antenna design flaw not a software problem involving how many bars are shown.

The video below clearly shows the issue. The poster makes a call between a 3GS and a 4G phone. The call is dropped when the 4G is held in the lower left corner but not when the 3GS is held in the same manner. Yet Apple says:

"Since this mistake has been present since the original iPhone, this software update will also be available for the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PQyWp0mWE&feature=player_embedded

The photo on the web page in the link below (6th photo down) shows the speed test with the 4G on the table (840 kbps); with the phone in a case but held in the left hand (263 kbps) and when the phone is held without a cover (42 Kbps).

http://gizmodo.com/5571171/iphone-4-loses-reception-when-you-hold-it-by-the-antenna-band

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/06/500x_handsonreceptionprobs.jpg

This video shows the "speed test" with and without the phone being held.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYmVpoccPnc&feature=player_embedded#!

Apple's statement that the number of bars being displayed is inaccurate is likely true but irrelevant to the flaw in the antenna design. In other words, the software update won't help fix the problems being experienced by so many and demonstrated in these videos/pictures.
 
I only want what I have paid for, nothing more.

Do you not think that everyone at cupertino wants the situation cured?

Seriously.

Get a 3GS, they are great phones.

Let others go down the early adopter route, those that have the patience to put up with the territory
 
Do you not think that everyone at cupertino wants the situation cured?

Seriously.

Get a 3GS, they are great phones.

Let others go down the early adopter route, those that have the patience to put up with the territory

I had a 3GS from release. I loved it. Sold it to pay for my 4. Perhaps that's why I'm so annoyed. I also had the 3G from release and had no issues. Suggesting that people should expect problems if they buy them early is wrong.
 
I didn't call you dumb? Let's leave it there hey, you're embarrassing yourself.

LOL, I'm embarrassing MYSELF? Check all the previous posts, most of them are of YOU arguing against multiple forum members about a defecTED iPhone 4. :p Don't worry, this will be my last post to you because all you want to do to me and others here are throw personal insults and attacks.
 
LOL, I'm embarrassing MYSELF? Check all the previous posts, most of them are of YOU arguing against multiple forum members about a defecTED iPhone 4. :p Don't worry, this will be my last post to you because all you want to do to me and others here are throw personal insults and attacks.

You got me. I feel like such a fool.
 
The die hards say just return it. Well there is still a restocking fee with AT&T. There is also issues on getting them to cancel the contract and activate a 3G.. The people on here should work together on getting apple to fix this issue.

Here is ATT's return policy.

If you are returning a 16GB phone restocking fee is only $19.99. The 32GB fee is $29.99.

There are no issues in regard to canceling the contract if the phone is returned within 30 days. If you are new and dropping ATT service all together you will likely have to pay a pro-rated amount for the minutes used. Take it back in with the original box and included accessories. Pay your $20-$30 fee and be on your way. Chock up any losses to early adopter educational funds.

If you choose not to return it and hate the phone sell it on ebay or craigs list. They are in demand by others so you should make back more then you spent.
 
Then return the phone for a full refund. You have your money back, Apple see another return on the records, and you don't look like a six year old with a wet diaper.

Again, for the more hard headed : Returns aren't hassle free.

Until Apple clearly indicated their position on all of this (is there or is there not a fix coming), people would rather hold on to their phone since returning it for a refund is a hassle of some sort for about everyone.

If Apple issued such a statement, people could make an informed choice about returning or not returning the phone.

Is this so hard ?
 
Is this so hard ?

Yes. The very worst thing a company like Apple could do would be to make a promise they possibly couldn't keep. Could you imagine the whining if someone waited 1 day more than the return period and there was no fix? "YOU LIED APPLE. YOU SUCK. YOU SUCK", etc
 
Again, for the more hard headed : Returns are hassle free.

Until Apple clearly indicated their position on all of this (is there or is there not a fix coming), people would rather hold on to their phone since returning it for a refund is a hassle of some sort for about everyone.

If Apple issued such a statement, people could make an informed choice about returning or not returning the phone.

Is this so hard ?

Apple's issued statement:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/02appleletter.html
As a reminder, if you are not fully satisfied, you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund.

What's more hassle? Having a product that is so bad that you spend hours ranting and raving to people that it's crap and unusable and flawed and poorly designed and ... ..., or return your undamaged iPhone for a full refund? Go buy an Android or some other phone, then I'm sure you can join the others and come back here and look down your nose at others while spouting such witty comments as "walled garden" and "sheeple" while quietly envying those that have the phone you really wanted.
 
Yes. The very worst thing a company like Apple could do would be to make a promise they possibly couldn't keep. Could you imagine the whining if someone waited 1 day more than the return period and there was no fix? "YOU LIED APPLE. YOU SUCK. YOU SUCK", etc

Who's asking for promises ? A clear "Non-issue, no fix coming" or a "Issue indeed, we're working on it, timeframe unknown, extending return period" or a "We're investigating the issue, but return the iPhone before the 30 days, we won't make any promises".

All bases covered by one of those 3 anouncements. The problem is all of these are no-win scenarios for Apple. So they picked option 4 : "Remain silent, navigate the storm".

Apple's issued statement:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/07/02appleletter.html


What's more hassle? Having a product that is so bad that you spend hours ranting and raving to people that it's crap and unusable and flawed and poorly designed and ... ..., or return your undamaged iPhone for a full refund? Go buy an Android or some other phone, then I'm sure you can join the others and come back here and look down your nose at others while spouting such witty comments as "walled garden" and "sheeple" while quietly envying those that have the phone you really wanted.

Having sold your previous phone to get an iPhone 4, you are now phoneless. You must now purchase a replacement phone, which might end up costing you money (in the case of the 3GS market) or features (in the case of a non-iPhone, you lose all iTunes app store content you bought).

It might not be a big hassle, but it is a hassle nonetheless.
 
You know nothing. There hasn't been any proof of a single working iPhone 4. Consider location before you reply otherwise it could get embarrasing for you.
NO proof of a single working iPhone?

And you think I may be the to become embarrassed?

Please please post more.

Comedy Gold!
 
NO proof of a single working iPhone?

And you think I may be the to become embarrassed?

Please post this evidence of a working iPhone 4, taking into consideration that the problem is a -20 dbm drop in signal and that 5 bars covers a range down to -91 dbm of signal.
 
Who's asking for promises ? A clear "Non-issue, no fix coming" or a "Issue indeed, we're working on it, timeframe unknown, extending return period" or a "We're investigating the issue, but return the iPhone before the 30 days, we won't make any promises".

All bases covered by one of those 3 anouncements. The problem is all of these are no-win scenarios for Apple. So they picked option 4 : "Remain silent, navigate the storm".



Having sold your previous phone to get an iPhone 4, you are now phoneless. You must now purchase a replacement phone, which might end up costing you money (in the case of the 3GS market) or features (in the case of a non-iPhone, you lose all iTunes app store content you bought).

It might not be a big hassle, but it is a hassle nonetheless.

I'm clearly in an unusual spot here - as apparently I seem to be the only person in the world with a couple of old spare phones around the place. Even if I didn't, I know several people with a spare phone around. I know I've handed out a phone to a friend before who damaged theirs and they needed something to last until they could get it fixed. They're not exactly rare as hen's teeth - you should be able to get something from someone you know to tide you over until either Apple fix the iPhone to your satisfaction, or until you decide to go for a new replacement.

Is it more of a hassle than the problems you say you're experiencing with the phone? If so, then suck it up and wait. If not, return the phone. Should you decide to come back to an iPhone, your Apps will still be waiting on iTunes for you to reinstall.
 
Having looked at the Gizmodo article linked to above, I find this comment by "belonky" quite persuasive. Lengthy, but persuasive.
http://gizmodo.com/comment/25120812
May I posit a theory of what's going on? I have no inside information that this is, in fact, what is happening, but it seems to me to be the most plausible theory.

Let me state first that it is a complete impossibility that Apple's engineers "didn't realize" there was a problem with the design. These aren't blind morons throwing together a bunch of parts and saying, "Let's see if this works, guys!" These are some of the best engineers and industrial designers on the planet. First, every design they create is based ON THEORY. They don't just build something and then test it to see if it works. But more importantly, every design coming out of their lab goes through iteration after iteration after iteration after iteration after iteration, each prototype being subjected to rigorous testing IN THE LAB, before even being brought into the field for testing. You can even see this for yourself with the leaked prototype iPhone 4's (which were all extremely late-stage prototypes), which bore the markings "EVT" and "DVT," standing for "Engineering Verification Test" and "Design Verification Test," respectively. Believe me when I say that design-wise, nothing this glaring "slips through" testing

That being said, it IS conceivable that Apple made a conscious decision to prioritize form of over function as I have seen them do a few times in the past (albeit for much smaller considerations than the one at issue). However, I sincerely doubt that that is the case, since much of the known evidence contradicts this blind assumption. Everyone is focusing on this being an inherent issue in the design of the phone, but what I find to be a much more likely explanation is that it is not so much an issue with design as it is with manufacturing. The fact that there have been at least several documented cases of iPhone 4's that don't seem to exhibit the problem suggests this theory to be true, especially since the number of apparently positive cases will always be substantially inflated, given that it's the users WITH the problem who are much more likely to report back than those without it.

Now, it is conceivable that the differences in results among users are due to other variables like location and that the problem would surface among "unaffected" users if those users were to test it in a different environment. But I highly doubt that Apple, or any company for that matter, would deliberately release a product that it knew to suffer a defect in design so severe as to cripple the central functionality of the device--especially since they could, it seems from the preliminary evidence, have maintained the aesthetic appeal of the device and still avoided the issue by more fully insulating the two antennae from each other. Much more likely, in my opinion, is the following:

Apple realized very early on in the manufacturing process that they had a problem (back when they first started ramping up production to significant quantities in early to mid-May). They immediately rectified the issue from there on out, but they then faced a choice: They could either take the iPhones they had already manufactured off the supply line, eat the cost, and, most crucially, delay the launch and suffer a PR disaster; or they could let the defective models come to market.

Apple's being Apple, they would have been extraordinarily reluctant ever to publicly acknowledge there was an issue, so instead, they thought the problem through and came up with a way they could maintain the launch date and mitigate the cost, in profit loss and PR, that they would have to eat due to recalling the defective devices: Quickly rush to market a set of colorful Apple-endorsed iPhone cases that JUST cover the conductive surfaces of the phone. The backstory for the launching of the cases gains some credulity because Apple happened to have already launched a case for the iPad, so Steve could casually mention in the keynote that "We did it for the iPad. We thought we'd try our hand at it for the iPhone." Case manufacturing ramp-up time is likely MUCH faster than the time it takes to ramp up iPhone production, so they could quickly rush the cases to market. Give it a clever name, include it in the keynote, and a substantial number of customers are likely to buy the bumper and never notice that their bought-at-launch iPhones are defective.

For those customers who do experience a problem, replace their phone no questions asked. But those customers who return it are likely to be a small subset of the whole launch day purchaser population, saving Apple substantial amounts of money and, more importantly, PR problems. Never publicly admit there's a problem, maintain the launch date, and preserve Apple's "untarnished" image. After a month or so, the iPhones subjected to the revised manufacturing process would hit the market, people would start experiencing the problem in much lower quantities, and the problem would quickly fizzle away to nothing, only to be vaguely remembered in the annals of Apple product launch history.

I actually think it is a rather interesting and creative--if not completely responsible--way of handling the issue. And it seems to me to be the most likely theory of what's going on. I'll reserve further judgment until we see how this pans out. Until then, let us all watch with bated breath.
 
Is it more of a hassle than the problems you say you're experiencing with the phone? If so, then suck it up and wait. If not, return the phone. Should you decide to come back to an iPhone, your Apps will still be waiting on iTunes for you to reinstall.

That's what I've been saying all along, people can't make this choice right now, because Apple hasn't given them the information required to make this choice in an informed manner. Which is more of an hassle, wait for a fix ? Is a fix even coming ? Are they even going to acknowledge this issue or at least explicitly say they aren't ? Is the hassle of returning the phone worth the wait for a fix if indeed one is coming ?

To answer all these, Apple needs to issue a clear statement about the problem, be it "fix" or "no fix". This is what I am deploring. Again, not so hard to understand.

As for the apps, that is for everyone to decide for themselves. It is an hassle no matter how much you try to downplay it.
 
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