I think all of this feedback should be going to the feedback site at apple
even the crazy **** lol
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
even the crazy **** lol
http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html
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Apple on iPhone 4 Reception: Signal Strength Display Issue Only, Software Update Coming
- Thread starter fruitbat04
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I'm one of the lucky ones.. I can make the bars drop but it never seems to do any harm to the call quality or drop on me. I also have quite small hands so i can comfortably hold it in a miriad of non-"wrong" ways. I'm likely in a good signal area or something too.. My wifi range on the ip4 is amazing compared to the 3GS though.
A ios patch to mask the fluctuations would make the display less distracting at least.
A ios patch to mask the fluctuations would make the display less distracting at least.
He mentions that he thinks Apple knew they had a design flaw which they will fix sometime down the line, but he never says how.
Personally, I don't think there is a flaw, but I'm interested to see if we see a second batch of iPhone 4's with the gap on left side moved to the bottom.
The problem will be that we now have a bunch of lawyers (the bane of our society, they rule our country, president, congress and senate) involved. Apple probably can't make an improvement without the sharks seeing blood. We need a quota on lawyers or some kind of control. If anyone was ever able to quantify how much they cost us, it would be appalling. The US has about 70% of the lawyers in the world. I don't want to be like China, but come on.
I dont see that happening. Such a modification would most certainly require re-cerification. Apple cant hide that and such a modification would sound worse. The time that it would take makes me doubt that it would happen too.
Gee...this all sound so familiar
Speaking of antenna attenuation, seems like it is not just the iP4.
Maybe when Citrate returns his i4 (if he ever does) he can buy a Nexus One. then he can hang out on this forum.
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en
Speaking of antenna attenuation, seems like it is not just the iP4.
Maybe when Citrate returns his i4 (if he ever does) he can buy a Nexus One. then he can hang out on this forum.
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=34ae2c179184c33e&hl=en
Anand tested the Nexus One, read the article, it suffers half the problem of the iPhone 4. This is not good by any measure, but I'd rather have a 10 dbm than 20 dbm attenuation any day. Of course, I'd rather have the 3GS' 2 dbm.
Took our 3 iPhone 4s back to the AppleStore today. I was expecting the whole spill "my phone works great, best phone ever, case a case...something, but no. The store was busy...was greeted by 2 employees, said can I help you...I said I'm returning 3 iPhones back...gal said "Jason here will get you fixed up." They asked nothing about a reason, nothing at all. Almost as if they just wanted to shut me up and out the door. It was fast...credited the credit card and I was out the door. The longest part was having to go to AT&T to reactivate our 3GSs in which they had to put in new sims etc. Have to say I miss the screen, cameras, and 802.11n...but it's sure nice to be able to make phone calls successfully. I'm just going to watch the regular sites and wait until the next mod of the new phone comes out...probably will be within a couple months...can't wait!
We weren't speaking of antenna attenuation. We were speaking of antenna de-tuning, a completely different effect.
The only people that want to talk about attenuation are the people who don't know the difference, or the people who want to pretend that the i4 is not a flawed design.
You can't de-tune an antenna if you can't make ohmic contact with it.
It's some nice logic but he misses one key fact; the problem isn't bars dropping or connections dropping - those are symptoms. The root cause of the problem is, if we're to take Anandtech's research at face value, a -20 to -24 dB signal attenuation when the phone is held. Given that, it's obvious that if you're in an area that normally has -51 dB signal strength, a drop to -75 dB is still going to give you maximum voice quality and data throughput - not to mention still have five bars. But if you're in an area that normally has a -90 dB signal, that same attenuation has a good chance of sending your bars to "Searching..." His thoughts about the fact there's "at least several documented cases of iPhone 4's that don't seem to exhibit the problem" doesn't mean anything unless we can know the signal strength in dB, no bars, for those phones that don't show any symptoms. Therefore, his conclusion that it's a manufacturing issue rather than a design issue could be incorrect.
For what it's worth, in my house I have a normal signal of -85 to -89 dB. Using Field Test on my first-gen phone, I see a -15 dB to -25 dB drop in signal when holding it. If it doesn't go all the way to "Searching..." I usually have audio drop-outs during conversations. Therefore I've learned to leave the phone on the table, untouched, and use the headset for longer conversations. It's something I've lived with for three years now, and sounds like the iPhone 4 won't be any different, so I wasn't too worried about ordering one a couple days ago.
But the fact that my first-gen see the same level of attenuation as the iPhone 4 suggests to me Apple did know about this level of attenuation in their new device, and didn't consider it to be a problem. They simply screwed up by making a relatively weak signal, -91 dB, show up as full bars. Whereas my first-gen iPhone shows only four bars as strong as -83 dB. So I know what I'm getting into in a weaker signal area, whereas iPhone 4 owners think they have a perfectly strong signal when in reality its weak enough that holding the phone can sever their connection, and they should only be shown two or three bars.
Of course, we also have Anandtech's research showing much, much less attenuation with the 3GS model, so it's quite a step back Apple has taken, despite the new model being more sensitive in the signal-to-noise area - that is, while the iPhone 3GS and 4 will both maintain a connection at -113 dB, the lowest you can go, the 4 will have a clear connection while the 3GS will be garbled to some degree. Go any lower than that however, and both phones will drop connections.
To sum up:
- Apple built the first-gen iPhone with -20 to -24 dB attenuation. (Based on my personal testing of a single first-gen iPhone, mine. I wish I had access to more.
)- Apple built the iPhone 3G with much, much less attenuation. (Based on Anandtech.) But people complained about seeing few bars displayed, so Apple changed the algorithm to show more bars even in low signal situations, because the phone could still maintain a good connection. And holding the phone didn't change the signal strength very much.
- With the iPhone 4 design, Apple's back to the old -20 to -24 dB attenuation situation while being held. My speculation is that they didn't consider this a big deal since they already built a phone that behaves this way. However, couple that with the bar algorithm that worked with the 3G, and you have the situation of people seeing a weak five-bar signal, which is normally perfectly adequate, drop to "Searching..." when being held.
- So Apple will go back to the old first-gen iPhone bar algorithm, users will get a better idea of when they're in a weaker signal area, and the drop-off from holding the phone won't appear as bad. Owners will think, "Oh, it's just the signal is weak, and I know that all phones loose signal when being held. It's normal." But the level of attenuation will still be there, unfortunately.
- From Anandtech's testing, if signal attenuation is a problem and makes your connection drop, get some sort of case that insulates the external antenna. You'll see a -7 dB attenuation instead of -20 to -24 dB. Still a bit more attenuation than a 3GS, but with the new model's better quality at lower connection strengths, you'll likely be able to use the phone in more places compared to the 3GS.
I really like the new iPhone 4 design. It's just too bad Apple didn't, as Anandtech suggests, put a thin transparent coating over the pretty antennas.
I guess you decided to just ignore the people that were reporting a 30 dBm drop by merely touching the sides, another guy 29 dBm drop, another guy a 24 dBm drop etc etc etc. I have seen similar complaints on the Android Forum and the Moto forum as well.
They are VERY easy to find and all very similar to the ranting you find here, eg: "All i have to do is touch my phone on the bottom as I naturally touch it and the signal deteriorates rapidly...this is my 3rd phone" etc. All phones seems to have an issue with this is some form or fashion depending on many variables.
Yet Apple has crafted this major "design flaw" that somehow their engineers had inexplicably overlooked or thought hey, maybe no one will notice.
Right.
Return your phone.
Actually no, its much worse since decibels are logarithmic:
the -2dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 2/3rds the value unheld.
the -10dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 1/10 of it unheld,
the -20dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 1/100th of it unheld.
That's why the extreme signal loss would be considered a qualitative design defect. Picking up a phone normally shouldn't leave you with 1% the signal strength it had when on the table. Yes, there are places were signals are so strong that even that 1% is currently 5 bars according to the Apple scale but in many places its not, such a drop results in dropped calls.
We're betting that when the white ones show up later this month they will oddly have some sort of insulating coating on the stainless steel...
And I would like a report on whether the signal strength remained low while it was held. My myTouch 3G shows -63 dBm / 25 asu while sitting next to my computer, but it just moved to -89 / 12 while nothing else changed in the room. When I picked up the phone the signal strength fluctuated between -63 / 25, -89 / 12 and -101 / 6. It changes / increase and decreases while being held.
That describes attenuation.
With the iP4 the problem is that the antenna itself is affected by bridging the two sections as you hold it. Michael Jackson knew all about this problem, and that was the reason he wore that famous glove of his.
All this rampant speculation about something that Apple is looking into has produced over 2000 comments. Many of these comments blame Apple and Steve Jobs for pulling a fast one on the public. Others blame *cough* incompetent engineers.
In a week or two, we might find out that several ideas on these pages were correct. We will learn that most were tripe.
I think the statement from apple makes it clear they don't acknowledge an issue other than the way the iPhone displays bars.
Sadly it isn't.
Early adoption gets you bragging rights, but is risky.
Its just the way the world works in new design.
As I understand it, decibels are logarithmic. A difference if 10db is not twice. It's ten times!
C.
Actually no, its much worse since decibels are logarithmic:
the -2dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 2/3rds the value unheld.
the -10dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 1/10 of it unheld,
the -20dB drop means the signal strength fell to about 1/100th of it unheld.
That's why the extreme signal loss would be considered a qualitative design defect. Picking up a phone normally shouldn't leave you with 1% the signal strength it had when on the table. Yes, there are places were signals are so strong that even that 1% is currently 5 bars according to the Apple scale but in many places its not, such a drop results in dropped calls.
We're betting that when the white ones show up later this month they will oddly have some sort of insulating coating on the stainless steel...
Yep. The Anandtech article pegged the iPhone attenuation at 24.9db
Which with my faltering mathematics came out to be a 300 fold reduction in signal strength. If those are the numbers, that must be considered a design flaw.
C.
I don't agree.
The statement accurately explains why holding the phone drops so many bars.
The statement accurately says that all phones lose signal strength when held.
All of that is true. But...
The statement says absolutely nothing about the phone's (over) sensitivity to being held - and whether there are other efforts underway to improve that.
C.
Exactly!! They acknowledge nothing regards a fault so anyone not returning their iPhone waiting for a magic fix could be waiting a very long time.
My advice would be to anyone who cant live with this design feature is to return it. If there is a fix in the future you could reconsider and buy it then. Although by then you may have fallen in love with another phone...who knows?
Ps. I am not returning my iPhone as i have good reception and don't hold my phone in the death grip. Just me though.
Tried every single possible way to create signal loss. It just doesn't happen. Speed tested edge, 3G and wifi.
Stop talking nonsense. My ip4 is just fine as huge majority of the ip4s are fine.
Before I go on, let me clarify this, I DO NOT have an iPhone 4 (yet), I am not commenting on the reception issue on the iPhone 4. BUT after extensive testing iOS4 on my iPod Touch, I can be 99% sure there's something wrong with it, at all the same places I used to go online with the iPod Touch, I get VERY VERY poor download speeds, even when sitting in front of my wifi router I do not get full bars on the wifi reception.
The wifi reception indicators (bars) fluctuates up and down constantly and pages sometimes loads very slowly.
Again I am not commenting on the iPhone 4 reception issue, but I am pretty sure there's something wrong with iOS4 affecting my wifi reception.
The wifi reception indicators (bars) fluctuates up and down constantly and pages sometimes loads very slowly.
Again I am not commenting on the iPhone 4 reception issue, but I am pretty sure there's something wrong with iOS4 affecting my wifi reception.
I wonder how many times this "argument" has been debunked in this and previous threads. 500 times? 1000 times?
It's actually quite funny. Every 2-3 pages a new apologist shows up (obviously having not read the last 2-3 pages), and calls everybody idiots because "his phone is fine".
At this point, someone sensible might try to actually explain the issue to the guy, who fairly quickly disappears.
Then the next apologist comes along.