Apple on MacBook Neo Design: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises'

[bzgnyc2]

I think a lot (but not all) of this discussion would have been less heated had MR hewed closer to the original quote in the headline:

Apple on MacBook Neo: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises on the Design'​

instead of

Apple on MacBook Neo Design: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises'​

The original quote was: "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design..."


Sometimes a few strategic cuts to someone's quotes can change how a reader hears it as in this ongoing Jimmy Kimmel gag:

Still I would have phrased this differently if I was the Apple exec. More like, "We used high quality materials to make a MacBook well-optimized for it's audience".

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I think a lot (but not all) of this discussion would have been less heated had MR hewed closer to the original quote in the headline:

Apple on MacBook Neo: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises on the Design'​

instead of

Apple on MacBook Neo Design: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises'​

The original quote was: "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design..."


Sometimes a few strategic cuts to someone's quotes can change how a reader hears it as in this ongoing Jimmy Kimmel gag:

Still I would have phrased this differently if I was the Apple exec. More like, "We used high quality materials to make a MacBook well-optimized for it's audience".

Yes, that is a very different statement. And they should be proud of the design--given the limitations, they have done well.

 

[Websnapx2]

So you understand “Design” means a lot of different things — right? I’m a designer — a Graphic designer and Illustrator, but engineers also call what they do design. Design isn’t just the industrial look and material finish — design is all of that integrated with the components that affect the User Experience — it’s all design. You can embolden all the words you want, that fact still remains. Design, here, is the entire solution to the problem of making a MacBook more affordable.

 

[subjonas]

I think a lot (but not all) of this discussion would have been less heated had MR hewed closer to the original quote in the headline:

Apple on MacBook Neo: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises on the Design'​

instead of

Apple on MacBook Neo Design: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises'​

The original quote was: "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design..."


Sometimes a few strategic cuts to someone's quotes can change how a reader hears it as in this ongoing Jimmy Kimmel gag:

Still I would have phrased this differently if I was the Apple exec. More like, "We used high quality materials to make a MacBook well-optimized for it's audience".

I heartily agree with everything you said except your last statement. First it's an awkward sentence and marketing statements needs to be concise, but more importantly it says something different than what I think she wanted to say. Not just that it's well-designed for the intended buyer, but a higher bar: that it matches the look and feel and quality of the MacBook line as people have come to expect it. I think there's nothing wrong with the way she said it. I'm sure almost all people had no trouble understanding what she meant. There just happens to be a few tech nerds in here who can't adjust to context. But, as you said, I'm sure a lot of them wouldn't have been so thrown off if the article hadn't spliced up the wording of the quote (maybe intentionally).

 

[subjonas]

So you understand “Design” means a lot of different things — right? I’m a designer — a Graphic designer and Illustrator, but engineers also call what they do design. Design isn’t just the industrial look and material finish — design is all of that integrated with the components that affect the User Experience — it’s all design. You can embolden all the words you want, that fact still remains. Design, here, is the entire solution to the problem of making a MacBook more affordable.

You say "design" can mean a lot of different things, which I agree is true. So how can one know which meaning the speaker is using?

 

[Websnapx2]

Exactly — it was just used as marketing jargon... and I know, as I use my design in marketing, lol. If you mean the individual I was replying to — they were clearly focused on just the physical industrial design to support their point, but I continue to posit that when speaking about a product’s design — the components are part of the conversation as (unlike, say software) they will forever distinguish the properties of the product for it’s entire life, long after software has been updated. Think of how the butterfly switches of the 2016-2019 affected the product — that’s a design choice. The dimmer screen, here, is a design choice, the lack of backlit keys is a design choice, not having a haptic track pad is a design choice. Not bad choices if the goal is to improve the lowest price point portable mac device — just own it, don’t hide it.

 

[Ted_Appleseed]

I'd get a Mac Mini M4 with that money.

Well, even better. Totally forgot about that one - was only thinking about portable devices with a screen.

I would definitely take a Mac mini M4 and rock it with my monitors.

 

[subjonas]

Exactly — it was just used as marketing jargon... and I know, as I use my design in marketing, lol. If you mean the individual I was replying to — they were clearly focused on just the physical industrial design to support their point, but I continue to posit that when speaking about a product’s design — the components are part of the conversation as (unlike, say software) they will forever distinguish the properties of the product for it’s entire life, long after software has been updated. Think of how the butterfly switches of the 2016-2019 affected the product — that’s a design choice. The dimmer screen, here, is a design choice, the lack of backlit keys is a design choice, not having a haptic track pad is a design choice. Not bad choices if the goal is to improve the lowest price point portable mac device — just own it, don’t hide it.

But "marketing jargon" is a bit vague. It doesn't answer the question of what was her intended meaning of the word "design". It's not a question of what can it mean, but a question of what was her intended meaning? You posited your definition of the word in this context--design choices associated with any of the hardware--and the word can definitely be used that way (although if you're speaking in terms of the entire UX then design also means software), but the question is do you think that was how she meant it?

A lot of times in tech, the word "design" is also just used in regard to aesthetics specifically. For example, when you read a written tech review of a new phone, it's often divided into sections--performance, camera, price, etc. One section is usually just called "design', in which they only highlight aesthetic details--look, feel, actuation--things of that nature. Another way of framing it might be the user experience before turning on the device. Looking at the original article, at the context of the whole conversation, the context of the rest of the sentence, and at what her role at Apple is (industrial design, not computer engineer--basically an artist), it seems very likely that's how she was using the word.

It should also be mentioned that to say there are no hardware compromises on an entry-level device, which is the definition of an entry-level device, doesn't make any logical sense. So it's highly unlikely she was trying to claim something that any layman would know is an illogical claim.

Again, as someone else here pointed out, I think the way MacRumors manipulated the quote in the article title is the main reason people have misinterpreted it. As a reminder, the quote wasn't "We're certainly not making any compromises"--the quote was "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design".

 

[Websnapx2]

But "marketing jargon" is a bit vague. It doesn't answer the question of what was her intended meaning of the word "design". It's not a question of what can it mean, but a question of what was her intended meaning? You posited your definition of the word in this context--design choices associated with any of the hardware--and the word can definitely be used that way (although if you're speaking in terms of the entire UX then design also means software), but the question is do you think that was how she meant it?

But the comment — even in context — was vague. She was very specifically speaking only on the use of Aluminum. But focusing on that and ignoring the other elements that the design of the product DOES compromise on is when it’s being leveraged as “jargon”. And as far as software goes, no, the software is not part of the product. In two years I can install a newer OS — one which we have no idea of it’s functionality, interface, or UI — the same cannot be said of the screen, keyboard, SSD or other hardware components. The Hardware components are literally integral to the design of this specific product. The software is not, as it will evolve several time over the life of the product, as well as be ubiquitous across all supported MacOS products — so it isn’t a specific part of this products design. The assembled components in this aesthetic IS the design, and will remain the design throughout the lifetime of the product, where the software will not.

A lot of times in tech, the word "design" is also just used in regard to aesthetics specifically. For example, when you read a written tech review of a new phone, it's often divided into sections--performance, camera, price, etc. One section is usually just called "design', in which they only highlight aesthetic details--look, feel, actuation--things of that nature. Another way of framing it might be the user experience before turning on the device. Looking at the original article, at the context of the whole conversation, the context of the rest of the sentence, and at what her role at Apple is (industrial design, not computer engineer--basically an artist), it seems very likely that's how she was using the word.

A lot going on here. I appreciate that “design" is commonly used about aesthetics specifically — again, I am an artist by profession for over 20 years, illustrating, graphic design and modelling — industrial designers are not “artists”, they are “creative" engineers as best, and that isn’t an insult but a needed specificity. It’s structured, ridged design based off of complex calculations, physics, and an understanding of industrial materials, how malleable they are and how they wear over time, and how they integrate with needed components. They use the term “design" like programers do. As in, the most rudimentary definition of a plan to show the look or function of a final product as a guide, and/or visualize a concept that may it’s self be a final product. If you are talking about Industrial design, you have to incorporate the components of that design as that combination give you the look, feel, and behaviour of the product the design is representing. It all comes into play.

It should also be mentioned that to say there are no hardware compromises on an entry-level device, which is the definition of an entry-level device, doesn't make any logical sense. So it's highly unlikely she was trying to claim something that any layman would know is an illogical claim.

There would be no need to say it then, right? If the issue was there were no compromises on the material of the body in comparison to Apple’s other laptops — say that, we understand that, and can appreciate that — saying “no compromises on design” is speaking beyond just the material used.

Again, as someone else here pointed out, I think the way MacRumors manipulated the quote in the article title is the main reason people have misinterpreted it. As a reminder, the quote wasn't "We're certainly not making any compromises"--the quote was "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design".

As I mentioned above — that still doesn’t hold water. Could have just said "It's undeniably a MacBook, we're certainly not making any compromises on the design materials”. Leaving out “materials” — to me, understanding design — is just as misleading as you appear to claim MacRumours has done in it’s reporting — it’s leaving something out to infer something without saying it. Someone will just think it’s cheaper because a iPhone chip is in it rather than the processor one would find in a traditional MacBook, and we know that’s not the case.

 

[johnsawyercjs]

I think a lot (but not all) of this discussion would have been less heated had MR hewed closer to the original quote in the headline:
Apple on MacBook Neo: 'We're Certainly Not Making Any Compromises on the Design'

And they should have added the word "housing" somewhere in there, so that it was clear that she was referring to only that aspect. I know many people relate to the term "design" as it's been used for years (starting about the late 2000s, partly due to Jony Ive) to usually refer to the housing's appearance, materials, weight distribution, etc., and maybe also the keyboard and some other elements, but "older" people like me remember when the term was used in a more general sense to apply to the entire package. The original article in which she was quoted makes it clear that she wasn't talking about the entire package, but as you say headlines get our attention first.

So linguistic drift is the sole cause of this definitional fiasco.

 

[jlc1978]

industrial designers are not “artists”, they are “creative" engineers as best, and that isn’t an insult but a needed specificity.

I must disagree. To contend industrial designers, such as Philippe Starck, Jony Ive, Charles & Ray Eames, Raymond Loewy, to name a few, aren't artists is really narrowing a definition of 'Art.' If that is your POV, then many who consider themselves artists would not meet you definition, such as someone who sculpts clay into a shape, since they merely consider many of teh same things an industrial designer does, just in a different medium.

 

[Websnapx2]

You are afforded your opinion, but you would be misrepresenting my comment to support it. Industrial designers are closer to engineers than artists, but closer to artists than, say, the CNC operator that produces the product they designed. That is not to say the discipline doesn’t have artistic merit — like many professions that have a sliding scale of potential creativity, but don’t they actually output art, they output a plan for a product. Industrial design is constrained by function, manufacturing, and usability, while “art” is usually defined as being primarily about expression, regardless of medium. Artists can be Industrial designers, but not all Industrial Designers are artists.

...such as someone who sculpts clay into a shape, since they merely consider many of teh same things an industrial designer does, just in a different medium.

Not in the least. Sculptors actually create something — a final one-off piece of art — usually with their own hands, and don’t go through a manufacturing process. They select material as a medium, but they aren’t concerned about tensile strength, or wear and tear, so conflating them is overly simplistic.

The designers you mentioned ARE artists, both in their spare time and retroactively through signature pieces — but not because what they made started out as art, but because they created pieces that stood the test of time, influenced entire markets and usage cases, and went on to inform how we interact and connect with objects that become integral in our lives. But that the end of the day, the purpose of Art is to capturing expression first and foremost, where Industrial Design is problem solving first and foremost. A device could be the most beautiful device you’ve ever seen, but if it lacks function then it's an unsuccessful industrial design. Artists don’t have that requirement for what they create, and it connects or it doesn't. Like how sound baffles can look really cool, but their function comes first, yet a painting on the same wall is not expected to have a function — yet can take up the same space.

I say all this not in a disrespectful way, but to delineate the specificity of the difference in this context which is what matters most.

 

[jlc1978]

But that the end of the day, the purpose of Art is to capturing expression first and foremost, where Industrial Design is problem solving first and foremost.

I'm not sure I agree with that. An industrial designer can be setting out to express something as well, and reflect that in the design.

I say all this not in a disrespectful way, but to delineate the specificity of the difference in this context which is what matters most.

None taken, nor do I intend any; I just think artist is much broader than what you think. For me, the medium is not important, it's the result and how people react to it. I know graphic artists who design and print posters - it's a manufacturing process as well and yet they are artists. To me, just because something is functional doesn't mean the designer isn't an artist; they just work with a different set of materials but the same goal a a sculptor or painter or other more traditional artist.

Was Jobs and artist? He obsessed over design and yesterday all Apple's products were intended for mass production.

 

[Websnapx2]

I'm not sure I agree with that. An industrial designer can be setting out to express something as well, and reflect that in the design.

We can agree to disagree — I feel you are using the term “artist” and a “creative” interchangeably... and I get how some, at a very macroscopic perspective apply it that way — but they are not the same. An artist is a person who’s chosen profession it to make art — which is an individual expression of creativity (it’s where the concept of “starving Artist” is born from because they are focused on expression and haven’t “sold out” by relinquishing that personal expression). A creative is someone who incorporates that artistic skill and creative concepts in their work that is not individual expressions of creativity — they have a specific purpose — be it to inform, to have a function, to instruct a process or provide visual effect to to an external rudimentary concept — most commonly for commercial or professional use. Like an Industrial designer, film editor, or like me — a Graphic Designer. An Industrial Designer does not create out of whim or self expression — they generally work on teams, it’s a creative collaborative effort they have been asked to design, materials, functionality, dimensions, and use-case has already been dictated with a creative brief on what is needed for the project to be seen as successful. As a designer myself, I see my work as no different — which is why I say I mean no disrespect — I create work my clients ask me to produce. If they don’t like it, I have to change it even if I feel it is my best work (which has happened plenty of times) or risk not being paid for my time and effort. I am also an artist, and that is work I create because (as cheesy as it sounds) it moves me to express myself in whatever medium I feel works best to convey the idea I’m trying to express. But that doesn’t pay the bills, so I’ve choses a profession (being Graphic Design) that hinges on the commercialization of my artistic skills and design to maintain a steady income. That’s exactly what these industrial designers do — no different. The have been asked to leverage their creativity on a task they were charged to produce. They didn’t decide to make the investment of an entirely new product, with Apple saying “great, no notes”. Commercial design, not art.

None taken, nor do I intend any; I just think artist is much broader than what you think. For me, the medium is not important, it's the result and how people react to it. I know graphic artists who design and print posters - it's a manufacturing process as well and yet they are artists. To me, just because something is functional doesn't mean the designer isn't an artist; they just work with a different set of materials but the same goal a a sculptor or painter or other more traditional artist.

Again, I feel you are interchanging Artist and Creative. An Artist is independent of function and an expression of concept. If those posters are individual expression that it’s still art — just using the medium of Graphic design in stead or oil pain, clay, or wood caring, for instance. If the posters are to inform, promote, or any other function, then it is clearly creative work, but not “art”. As an individual you can see artistry in it — but it isn’t art.

Was Jobs and artist? He obsessed over design and yesterday all Apple's products were intended for mass production.

No — and he would be the first person to tell you that. He was many things — astute business man, a visionary marketer, a showman, and had a keen understanding of human interface into the digital space — but he wasn’t an artist.

 

[imdog]

I went with Blush but I find the Citrus looks FAR better in person than in photos/video you see online. For some reason it looks so much more yellow in photos/videos, in person it looked far more green than I expected

 

[jlc1978]

Again, I feel you are interchanging Artist and Creative.

Fair enough. I can see your point. I think there really isn't a clear delineation of where one ends and the other begins.

 

[Detnator]

So you understand “Design” means a lot of different things — right? I’m a designer — a Graphic designer and Illustrator, but engineers also call what they do design. Design isn’t just the industrial look and material finish — design is all of that integrated with the components that affect the User Experience — it’s all design. You can embolden all the words you want, that fact still remains. Design, here, is the entire solution to the problem of making a MacBook more affordable.

Omg. Context.

For the thousandth time: She’s the head of industrial design. And the entire interview was about her role etc in the creation of the Neo, which is industrial design.

So when an architect says he designs houses but someone else takes care of some of the interior design (eg. furniture, paint colors, etc.), he’s lying. Ok. Got it.

 

[Detnator]

Well, even better. Totally forgot about that one - was only thinking about portable devices with a screen.

I would definitely take a Mac mini M4 and rock it with my monitors.

“Take” it where? Not much use at a cafe, in a college lecture, on a bus, etc.

 

[jlc1978]

“Take” it where? Not much use at a cafe, in a college lecture, on a bus, etc.

Long power cord?

 

[turbineseaplane]

(removed)

 

[speedyraf]

The Neo looks interesting enough to us to examine in person at a store. (end of March??) We're not in the market for a new computer yet but are already thinking about possibilities. Which model becomes a factor since we could be counted as "everyday users". We like Touch ID but our SSDs are nowhere near full, so that's another consideration.

 

[Websnapx2]

Fair enough. I can see your point. I think there really isn't a clear delineation of where one ends and the other begins.

There isn’t — the use of the term “design” and who considers themselves a “designer” is very broad. I had to hire a new designer for my team a few months ago and I got a ton of programmers with no visual design experience, because they’ve “designed” an app or a website. To them, “design” was “I designed a project based on a brief, I made design choices why in development, I’m a designer”. From their perspective, they are designers — from mine (and more importantly, the later job description I posted the position) they were not.

My issue, and I feel more than a few individuals out here, feel Apple Marketing leveraged that vagueness of the term to their benefit — to sound good in a small soundbite. Something we all understand Apple marketing is known to do. They are’t all the way “wrong”, but they knew they weren’t being completely honest either. The specifically said they made the new product look like it fit within the existing product catalogue of products so this wasn’t a new aesthetic design at all. It was a matter of making the components they decided would make this product meet their goals and price point yet still look like the existing MacBook line and it wouldn’t be out of place. It’s not about aesthetics — they know this.

 

[Websnapx2]

Omg. Context.

OMG. Read the rest of my comment.

For the thousandth time: She’s the head of industrial design. And the entire interview was about her role etc in the creation of the Neo, which is industrial design.

You are saying that like A) we don’t know that (I mentioned it several times in the comment you seem to have glossed over but could pick lines to argue against; and B) like it changes anything. The industrial design here had two clear goals:

1. Look like the rest of the lineup, so it doesn’t appear like they just made a cheap MacBook,
2. Meet a specific price point — internally and externally.

The only “compromise" they didn’t make was eliminating the Aluminum housing, and to keep that — AND hit the price point – they made compromises everywhere else... the screen, trackpad, the keyboard, etc. The entire combination of thought, of incorporating components not just a housing AND how that would looks and operates — IS Industrial Design. It’s obtuse to see it any other way with any sort of understanding of the process.

So when an architect says he designs houses but someone else takes care of some of the interior design (eg. furniture, paint colors, etc.), he’s lying. Ok. Got it.

That oversimplification is ridiculous, and not at all analogous to this discussion. That’s like saying if they didn’t design the logic board they didn’t design the laptop and no one said that at all. Industrial design in more than just the look of the final product — it’s being thoughtful of the entire hardware package of the final product — the housing (materials and location of elements/UI), the components connected (and if the housing can support it’s usage, ie: thermals, interface, and interference), and price point (can the augmented design be supported by their supply chain and keep the internal cost in acceptable range to produce at scale). The housing is aesthetically unchanged by design (there is that word again being used in a different way). That design had concessions to meet requirements. That’s all anyone ever called them on.

 

[jlc1978]

There isn’t — the use of the term “design” and who considers themselves a “designer” is very broad.

That's true of many areas, and I was specifically referring to the line between artists and designers.

My issue, and I feel more than a few individuals out here, feel Apple Marketing leveraged that vagueness of the term to their benefit — to sound good in a small soundbite.

In the end, it's much ado about nothing.

I had to hire a new designer for my team a few months ago and I got a ton of programmers with no visual design experience, because they’ve “designed” an app or a website.

That's not uncommon in many areas. I get people who call themselves software engineers who don't have an engineering degree but somehow think because they can write code they are magically an engineer.

 

[Websnapx2]

That's true of many areas, and I was specifically referring to the line between artists and designers.

Completely fair.

In the end, it's much ado about nothing.

It really is. At no point did I say I thought this was a bad product, that it wasn’t worthy in some way of being a MacBook, or that it wasn’t good value for dollar — spoke on one point and one point only — that verbiage. I’ve already recommended it to a family member starting University in the fall.

That's not uncommon in many areas. I get people who call themselves software engineers who don't have an engineering degree but somehow think because they can write code they are magically an engineer.

Agreed — so weird thought to just completely ignore the list of expected tasks of a graphic designer, provide no print work with your resume — and think “I’m a designer, that should be good enough” and ask for an interview. It’s one thing to not have credentials — but to not have work to support skill in leu of credentials is crazy.

Appreciate the conversation — cheers.