Apple Ordered to Alter Website Statement Acknowledging Samsung Galaxy Tab Did Not Infringe on iPad Design

[KnightWRX]

Who can be critical of apple, while also enjoying their products as they fit into needs we may have.

It's especially funny getting called an Apple hater after I gave them 3300$ of my money in the last 2 months.

However, I absolutely love my new iPhone 5 and my new 15" rMBP (was disappointed with the 13" rMBP, so I went 15").

 

[frega]

Really? There are 3 middle-aged women sat opposite me who've bought Android phones in the past quarter specifically because they didn't want to spend on a "smug phone".

Or did they just bought low end android phones because its cheaper? I quote "didn't want to spend".

I doubt they follow tech news... you should ask them what makes it so smug. I bet they'll tell you cos its more expensive and its the same size as the low end android sitting next to it in the shop.

 

[Oletros]

Umm... didn't Apple just quote what the judge said?

And they broke the court order doing it.

 

[paul4339]

Umm... didn't Apple just quote what the judge said?

That's not really the problem... The order was to post a message to clarify that Samsung did not infringe. To pick a quote from judge saying "Samsung is not as cool', still doesn't drive home and clarify that Samsung did not infringe.

And to make things worse, they made added confusion by placing an opinion paragraph saying something like: So while the UK court found that Samsung didn't infringe, other courts... - which defeat the goal of the entire previous statement.

.

 

[sseaton1971]

http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup.cgi?doc=/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/2049.html

The following notice shall be posted and displayed upon the Defendant's Websites currently at

http://www.apple.com/benl/ http://www.apple.com/befr/
http://www.apple.com/bg/ http://www.apple.com/cz/
http://www.apple.com/dk/ http://www.apple.com/de/
http://www.apple.com/ee/ http://www.apple.com/es/
http://www.apple.com/fr/ http://www.apple.com/gr/
http://www.apple.com/hr/ http://www.apple.com/it/
http://www.apple.com/lv/ http://www.apple.com/li/iphone/
http://www.apple.com/lt/ http://www.apple.com/lu/
http://www.apple.com/hu/ http://www.apple.com/mt/
http://www.apple.com/nl/ http://www.apple.com/at/
http://www.apple.com/pl/ http://www.apple.com/pt/
http://www.apple.com/ro/ http://www.apple.com/sk/
http://www.apple.com/si/ http://www.apple.com/fi/
http://www.apple.com/se/ http://www.apple.com/uk/

"On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronics (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design 000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High Court is available via the following link [insert hyperlink]."

The defendant shall arrange for the following notice to be published in The Financial Times; the Daily Mail; The Guardian; Mobile Magazine; and T3 magazine:

"On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronics (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design 000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High Court is available via the following link [insert hyperlink]."

Thanks for the link. This is different than the document everybody was referring to before, and it doesn't use the word "propose" like the other document. It is very clear that the text has to be posted.

However, the document also does not explicitly state that Apple is restricted from adding to the statement. And it is also important to note that nothing in Apple's addendum is factually untrue.

So... boohoo for Samsung and boohoo for Apple, but I am guessing they both will recover from this whole tramatic experience!

 

[RDStrong]

I was looking at some 'smartphones' and it was obvious that everyone copied the 'original'. They are so similar as to be hard to tell them apart! What was the original? PALM? Oh, maybe SAMSUNG did invent all of them! Wow! We owe so much to SAMSUNG for creating such a fantastic product! I wonder what they are going to invent next? Let's see if they invent the next windows phone also! I can't wait!!! WOW!

I find allegiances to corporations to be utterly bizarre. You do realise that they intentionally generate brand loyalty to keep you invested in their ecosystem whilst simultaneously working with (and suing) their competitors (Samsung and Google).

I realised a long time ago that brand loyalty was completely pointless for that very reason. Enjoy the products they produce but don't waste your time expressing love and affection for a corporation.

 

[melendezest]

Debate is one thing. Ignorance, stupidity and reading comprehension is another. You want to debate with a little intellect I am all for it. But when people refuse to understand the thing they are debating - their opinion is worthless. It's a waste of bandwidth.

I see what frustrates you. But is the indignation it really worth it when all it takes is a two-finger swipe up (or down..).

Maybe when you have your own forum you can ban those you deem too stupid to post, and enrich your post-surfing experience.

Until then, swipe, brother, SWIIIPE!!

 

[PsudoPowerPoint]

No, he didn't give that as "the" reason. There were several factors that lead him to a non-infringement verdict, most about shapes of the bezels, shape of the edges, design elements on the back of the tablet, the fact that the front is a functional element rather than a design element etc...

It's all detailed over like 20 or so paragraphs of texts, with images explaining his reasoning. Yet people go and read the final paragraph, with the "overall impression". The TL;DR version if you will.

Do yourself a favor, read the actual ruling posted on the 9th :

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Patents/2012/1882.html

Then read how it was upheld during appeal :

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2012/1339.html

It'll make you look a bit more informed and knowledgeable about what you're commenting on.

My use of the word "the" as you pointed out in bold was incorrect, it should have been "a". I tend to focus on that particular statement by the judge. It seems inappropriate for a written ruling, completely gratuitous under the circumstances, and the one statement most likely to be quoted. I wonder if the judge regrets it.

I read about half of ruling before the post you quoted. I thought it was very interesting, and it appeared that the judge realized that there were valid reasons both for and against the action he took, but he's a judge, he must to rule one way or the other.

But my primary point was and continues to be about the protection of intellectual property. The iPhone was so innovative when it was released, Apple made a huge investment, took a big gamble, and did everything they could to protect it. Is this the best they can expect in the way of protection?

Could anybody else expect to do better than Apple to protect a novel idea that is easily copied?

Also, my post was not an attack on you; your reply should not be an attack on me. I've read many of your posts and respect your opinion. As a frequent poster here, I hope that you can choose to set an example of good behavior.

 

[GadgetDon]

Erm? You do know the whole point of a court and a trial is to prove who's is right or wrong by law and who is guilty or innocent right?
Not to mention the fact the appeals court also told Apple they were, wrong.

The point of a court and trial is to come to a verdict and settle action.

The verdict of the court was that Samsung did not infringe, so Apple cannot go to stores and order all Samsung tablets be removed from the shelves for patent infringement, and cannot go to the bank where Samsung UK has money and demand payment for the patent infringement. Even if Apple is 100% opposed to the verdict and positive beyond a shadow of a doubt that the patents have been infringed, they must accept as a matter of law that it is settled (unless/until an appeal is successful or new facts arise to challenge the verdict in court).

But matter of law is not the same as matter of opinion - and not the same as matter of fact. Sometimes, the verdict is just plain wrong. The evidence necessary to prove the case may not have been available or allowed to be presented at trial, some of the evidence provided may be falsified or otherwise unreliable, or sometimes the jury or judge just came to the wrong conclusion. The most tragic of these cases is when an innocent person is convicted of a crime he or she did not commit. I presume you would not deny these people the right to protest their innocence and fight for their eventual acquittal. Verdicts get reversed years, decades after the initial decision.

And that's when you're dealing with questions for which there is an absolute truth - given knowledge of all the facts, it's either true or false that this person killed that other person. Patents are far more murky, and reasonable people can disagree about the breadth of patents so whether they cover a certain implementation or the validity of patents. The judge (and jury when present) are charged to come with a verdict, one decision based on the evidence, and that verdict then leads to damages awarded or not, injunction against items or not, the requirement to pay the other side's legal fees or not. This settles the legal disagreement (barring appeals or other legal proceedings). But it does not, and cannot, impose an opinion on either side. Nor can it morally impose a stated viewpoint on either side. Which is what the judge has done in this case, and he is wrong to have done so.

 

[melendezest]

Really? There are 3 middle-aged women sat opposite me who've bought Android phones in the past quarter specifically because they didn't want to spend on a "smug phone".

What does that say about them, though?

The chose to not buy a product, regardless of it's inherent qualities, simply because they perceived (an inanimate object) it as "smug".

LOL, "Damn it, I like this phone, it's awesome, but it's the smug phone. I'm not buying it!!"

 

[aerok]

It's especially funny getting called an Apple hater after I gave them 3300$ of my money in the last 2 months.

However, I absolutely love my new iPhone 5 and my new 15" rMBP (was disappointed with the 13" rMBP, so I went 15").

Stop lying! You didn't defend and love Apple, there is no way you are allowed to buy Apple products. You use a S3 as a phone and use the Note II as a tablet using a stylus instead of your fingers, don't deny it!!!

 

[DrStern]

The judge said it. It absolutely should be allowed in their posting. If he didn't want it there, he shouldn't have said it in open court.

 

[chrimux]

Lol oh man...even I gave Apple the benefit of the doubt that they got this approved before doing it. Now they kind of look stupid. Still, the original was great, hopefully this one will be just as good.

No problem. Tim Cook will apologize and all the other C*O's will sign it.

 

[126351]

What does that say about them, though?

The chose to not buy a product, regardless of it's inherent qualities, simply because they perceived (an inanimate object) it as "smug".

LOL, "Damn it, I like this phone, it's awesome, but it's the smug phone. I'm not buying it!!"

Au contraire - perhaps it says more about Apple that their arrogrance overwhelms the quality of their products in some cases.

 

[macfacts]

I find allegiances to corporations to be utterly bizarre.

Some people feel strongly about a compnay because they are financially involved (they have stock in the company). When you have a lot of your savings in Apple, you start saying things that make no sense from a consumer point of view. Once you assume they have their savings tied up in Apple, everything they say makes some sense (but only from a corporations point of view).

 

[samcraig]

The judge said it. It absolutely should be allowed in their posting. If he didn't want it there, he shouldn't have said it in open court.

What he said and what the court order was - clearly defined - as to what Apple should put on their website are two different matters entirely.

 

[GadgetDon]

Yes, you can say I disagree with the judge and I think his judgment is wrong.
The was clarified in the post ruling discussion, in court, with the judge, Samsung and Apple ... Apple is allow to state it's opinion (according to the BBC)

But the to put it in the next paragraph with the statement to clarify that Samsung did not infringe, was intentionally trying to add confusion and violated the spirit of the ruling itself.

.

You're starting from the position that the requirement to present the ruling as fact as a reasonable action for the judge to take, one I reject.

But even taking it as that - who reading that statement would come away with any confusion about what the verdict was in the UK courts? The court ordered part was very clear, and when mentioning the other verdicts, it expressed that the UK verdict was in conflict with verdicts in other jurisdictions.

What the judge is demanding is that the verdict (a decision with legal implications about what can be sold and who owes who money) be expressed as fact (the only legitimate position to hold). And as I just wrote at length in another reply, that's just not always so.

 

[melendezest]

You should know by now, if you don't defend Apple at any situations, you are officially a Samsung S3 owner. You don't even need to praise Android or bash Apple! If you don't agree with Apple in everything they do, you are a fandroid. Yup!

Conversely:

You should know by now, if you defend Apple at any situations, you are officially a Samsung S3 hater. You don't even need to praise Apple or bash Android! If you agree with Apple in anything they do, you are an iSheep. Yup!

C'mon guys. Let's get past these memes. Yes, some people fit the above molds, but not everybody. It'd be more productive and beneficial to all if we quit assuming this is so in both situations above.

 

[paul4339]

You're starting from the position that the requirement to present the ruling as fact as a reasonable action for the judge to take, one I reject.

But even taking it as that - who reading that statement would come away with any confusion about what the verdict was in the UK courts? The court ordered part was very clear, and when mentioning the other verdicts, it expressed that the UK verdict was in conflict with verdicts in other jurisdictions.

What the judge is demanding is that the verdict (a decision with legal implications about what can be sold and who owes who money) be expressed as fact (the only legitimate position to hold). And as I just wrote at length in another reply, that's just not always so.

The problem is that the verdict was posted along side with other info that refuted it. It's ok to state their opinion but positioning it so that it defeats the goal of the order. To the judge it's still not fulfilling the goal of the ruling.

You can reject the ruling as fact, but the difference is the judge ruling is legally enforceable... that's what make it a ruling.

.

 

[aerok]

Conversely:

You should know by now, if you defend Apple at any situations, you are officially a Samsung S3 hater. You don't even need to praise Apple or bash Android! If you agree with Apple in anything they do, you are an iSheep. Yup!

C'mon guys. Let's get past these memes. Yes, some people fit the above molds, but not everybody. It'd be more productive and beneficial to all if we quit assuming this is so in both situations above.

They're both stupid so you won't see me argue against someone that only defends Apple because that would be hypocrisy because I do also love some Apple products. But if you use words like samdung, samsuck or samcrap. Don't expect me to not laugh at your stupidity.

A lot of people fit the profile of a blind follower judging by the amount of the time I was labeled a Samsung fanboy... Ok FINE! My roomate does own a Samsung TV.

 

[PVisitors]

Probably because they were ordered to print and post only the following:

No they weren't.

Finally I should say something about the notice itself. We heard no discussion about that. Plainly Judge Birss's Schedule has been overtaken by events. Subject to anything that may be submitted by either side I would propose the following:
On 9th July 2012 the High Court of Justice of England and Wales ruled that Samsung Electronic (UK) Limited's Galaxy Tablet Computers, namely the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Tab 8.9 and Tab 7.7 do not infringe Apple's registered design No. 0000181607-0001. A copy of the full judgment of the High court is available on the following link [link given].
That Judgment has effect throughout the European Union and was upheld by the Court of Appeal on ….. A copy of the Court of Appeal's judgment is available on the following link […]. There is no injunction in respect of the registered design in force anywhere in Europe.

Court of Appeal is higher in the hierarchy so one would take the words of a CA judge. The CA Judge Robin stated that he would propose it. Not demand it.

 

[KnightWRX]

No they weren't.



Court of Appeal is higher in the hierarchy so one would take the words of a CA judge. The CA Judge Robin stated that he would propose it. Not demand it.

You missed this part of the ruling you quoted :

Subject to anything that may be submitted

Obviously, Apple didn't submit their "modification". Hence, yes, they were. The Judge even says they were. I think the Judge knows more than you or I on this matter.

 

[melendezest]

Au contraire - perhaps it says more about Apple that their arrogrance overwhelms the quality of their products in some cases.

Sorry, no. Choosing a product based on what you mentioned is smug as well. In your example, the ladies were smug because they refused to buy the "smug phone" solely on that basis, making them hypocrites. Not because they wanted a bigger screen, not because they're invested in Google Apps and Docs, not because they like to be able to root their phones, and not because it was less expensive. It sure as hell doesn't sound like they were trying to be humble about it. But hey, to each his/her own.

Let me ask this, what exactly drives you to believe Apple is arrogant? Or better yet, why does it matter at all if they are?

I love Apple's style, but if Samsung comes out with a kick-ass product that tickles my fancy I would not hesitate to buy it just because I think they are copy-cats (which I do).

I'm not committed to Apple as a company, I'm committed to it's products, for the time being, on a case-by-case basis. If RIM were to come out with a phone I found superior to the iPhone...SOLD!

It is interesting that people are so blinded by anger and/or loyalism that they pretend to be humble while insulting those around them.

 

[LordVic]

Au contraire - perhaps it says more about Apple that their arrogrance overwhelms the quality of their products in some cases.

maybe it says more about the consumerism marketplace that we live in today than anything else.

Unfortunate as it is.

 

[melendezest]

They're both stupid so you won't see me argue against someone that only defends Apple because that would be hypocrisy because I do also love some Apple products. But if you use words like samdung, samsuck or samcrap. Don't expect me to not laugh at your stupidity.

A lot of people fit the profile of a blind follower judging by the amount of the time I was labeled a Samsung fanboy... Ok FINE! My roomate does own a Samsung TV.

Agreed. (I own 3 Samsung TVs, and love the S3; wish Apple would build one that big also)

I am always amused at the ridiculousness of the "slurs": Fandroid, CrApple, iSheep, Kool-Aid (reeally hate that one), etc..

I do appreciate one thing, though. It is easy to spot when someone is being unreasonable the moment they spit out one of the slurs..Saves me time when trying to discuss anything since it lets me know they are not listening at all to the idea I'm trying to convey. If I see it, I'm not talking to those guys. Period.