Apple Outlines Security and Privacy of CSAM Detection System in New Document

[4jasontv]

(Good) software is typically the result of many hundred if not thousands of hours of work, performed oftentimes by people who spent tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to get an education on how to do said work. You think all of that ought to be freely given? I don't disagree that Apple subsidizes its' software development through device sales, but they decided to have their cake and eat it too, but including terms of service that you, as a consumer, must agree to when you use their software. You don't own their software, and you never have.

I don't think it should be free, nor do I think there even exists much free software. Good software should be priced what the market thinks it's worth. But to do that we need a secondary market to compete with first user sales.

 

[Aragornii]

This is only active if you, as the parent, activates it on your children's phone. They're giving you an option to use this feature, or not. They're not speaking to your children in any way, as you need to be the one to turn on the feature.

They're certainly not asking permission from me or anyone else in my family to put programs on our phones to scan our personal files. Apple no longer has any credibility when it comes to making statements about privacy.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

The problem is, all you need after this as a tyranical government is to insert certain hashes as Cp and push them out to tech companies to detect....it's not like Apple is going to verify by looking at that filth.

I believe Apple has said that all the databases are verified by multiple sources to prevent this from happening. They’ve designed it so that no government can hijack the system.

How many press releases and FAQs do we need to polish this turd?

Apple designed a system so that an external authority can gain control of your phone to scan your private files and report the results to the police. End of.

You’re part of the reason people are so misinformed about this.

No external authority gains control of your phone.

Your files are scanned, yes, but only the ones that are being uploaded to iCloud, which you are forfeiting legal control over already and are being scanned anyway.

 

[opfreak]

After all the promises from Apple, you either don;'t trust the company at all on their intentions or you are the culprit. After 7 days . video interviews and long technical documents. there are only 2 choices. You either dont trust Apple or you are the issue at hand

Why do you trust a company that gave china access to icloud? or let russia preinstall software on its phones?

 

[dannyyankou]

I know some super loyal people are defending apple here, but try to be objective. If Google outlined the same policy and laid out the same exact measures, would you still come to their defense?

 

[citysnaps]

The good intention would be trying to stop the proliferation of child porn, thus preventing the exploitation of minors.

I thought this was pretty obvious.

And Cook/Federighi/Maestri/etc., because they're not very smart people and don't care much about earnings, believe that privacy is not a significant reason why people choose Apple (over google, etc). Or, a potential decrease in revenue is OK, because it's really about the children?

That doesn't pass the smell test.

Come up with something better.

 

[jntdroid]

All the answers are here:

Apple’s Software Chief Explains ‘Misunderstood’ iPhone Child-Protection Features (Exclusive)

Apple’s tools for flagging child pornography and identifying explicit photos in kids’ messages caused backlash and confusion. In an exclusive interview, Apple software chief Craig Federighi sat down with WSJ’s Joanna Stern to defend the technology and explain how it will work. Illustration...

www.wsj.com

She's great. Always enjoy her material.

 

[rootee]

its only "spyware" if

1. you are ok with CSAM distribution

or

2. You are conspiracy driven and dont trust Apple. Why buy an Apple device? leave the ecosystem

Interesting arguments here, that I'm annoyingly seeing with great frequency on these forums discussing the new Apple CSAM scanning feature.

Let's use this logic in another setting... Your neighbor approaches you and says, "Hi Hasan, I'm going to look into your home from across the street with these high powered binoculars, but I'm only looking for CP so that I can turn the perpretrators into the local authorities. However, I might see you and your family naked now and again, but I promise to close my eyes when that happens." And you say, "Hi neighbor, no worries at all, no CP here, thanks for being a great neighbor!!"?

 

[januarydrive7]

They're certainly not asking permission from me or anyone else in my family to put programs on our phones to scan our personal files. Apple no longer has any credibility when it comes to making statements about privacy.

They don't force you to install iOS 15. In fact, they plainly tell you what they are doing in the new update (scanning files that you are in-the-process of uploading to their servers), and then they ask for your permission to install said update...

 

[opfreak]

I believe Apple has said that all the databases are verified by multiple sources to prevent this from happening. They’ve designed it so that no government can hijack the system.


You’re part of the reason people are so misinformed about this.

No external authority gains control of your phone.

Your files are scanned, yes, but only the ones that are being uploaded to iCloud, which you are forfeiting legal control over already and are being scanned anyway.

USA Calls up its UK buddies and says hey guys we need some info injected into the database, but need you guys to add it to yours so it gets vetted. Does the UK say no? More like, OK but only if you add this info to your database.

Or the NSA just does it on its one, injecting the same data in multiple databases.

The fact that Apple is even addressing this issue of a country corrupting the database, means they know it will happen.

 

[Nick05]

People aren't happy about this because either they are driven by conspiracy or they are partaking in it. After all the promises from Apple, thats the only thing left to say. You either are who Apple wants to catch or you don't trust Apple AT ALL. and if its the second case which is for most of folks here, then leave the ecosystem. its best for everyone I think

I don’t think you understand why people aren’t happy about this either. It isn’t as black and white as you say. Most of us trusted Apple enough to buy their products, but not a 100% trust. Blindly trusting anything isn’t good. Now we are questioning the path Apple is heading down. If your definition of conspiracy is wondering what is added next or how long before this tech is abused, then yeah, a lot of people fit into that and rightly so.

 

[Aragornii]

They don't force you to install iOS 15. In fact, they plainly tell you what they are doing in the new update (scanning files that you are in-the-process of uploading to their servers), and then they ask for your permission to install said update...

That part I definitely get. They are forcing me either to comply with their privacy invasion, or start over with a new ecosystem after 18 years as an Apple customer.

 

[Jonas07]

You clearly don’t understand how this works and didn’t read, or didn’t understand, the article.


Yeeah but.. the majority of people here don’t really understand the feature.


Your last part shows that you don’t understand how it works.


Of course they do. They also wrote a scientific paper on it.


Your claim is very refutable and is not a fact. You just don’t understand how it works and probably didn’t read the article.


I‘d bet a thousand dollars that you don’t.


Another one…


Try to read the article.

Man this comment section is a complete disaster and I’m only at page 3. Time to do something else. Conspiracy theorists are gonna conspiracy theorize.

Again no one from the public has access to their code, and again you are trusting a company that don't give a damn for privacy but for money as any other company except others don't use privacy as human right for marketing.

It doesn't matter how hard you try, a company scanning your device with the most pathetic mainstream excuse to watch you and invade your privacy, and it will happen, don't worth a ****.

I am tired of the people believing the bs companies make them to believe.

 

[farewelwilliams]

If Apple has to open a file on my phone, then it is an invasion of privacy. And they are. They have to. You cannot generate a hash without reading the 1's and 0's of a file.

Apple isn't opening the file. Your device is. It's no different than your device opening your photo to run facial recognition which has been happening since 2011.

 

[Mr. Awesome]

Interesting arguments here, that I'm annoyingly seeing with great frequency on these forums discussing the new Apple CSAM scanning feature.

Let's use this logic in another setting... Your neighbor approaches you and says, "Hi Hasan, I'm going to look into your home from across the street with these high powered binoculars, but I'm only looking for CP so that I can turn the perpretrators into the local authorities. However, I might see you and your family naked now and again, but I promise to close my eyes when that happens." And you say, "Hi neighbor, no worries at all, no CP here, thanks for being a great neighbor!!"?

Except for Apple never sees it unless it’s a match… a fact that many of you are ignoring in your arguments.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Comments like these indicate you don't understand what privacy is? Apple is installing a tool on *every* Apple device that has the potential to on-device scan any/all of your personal content. This is a direct backdoor to your content, as it circumvents all encryption, and effectively means none of your phone data is private.

There's already an on-device tool that scans all of your photos. Apple devices have been scanning EVERY SINGLE PHOTO since 2011 to perform facial recognition. iPhones have been performing neural scans to tag your photos as "cat" or "receipts" for the past couple of years.

 

[nouvejetzt]

At least I don't have to pay Zuckerberg to spy on me. He does it for free.

For Apple I have to buy an iPhone and pay for iCloud.

Apple be like ... Your Privacy is Very Important for US. That is why we are going to make sure every photo is secure.

Some charges before and after will apply.

 

[Aragornii]

So what's next Apple's iPhone camera monitors my movements and automatically shoots a text to Fauci if I'm not wearing a facemask.

It is unbelievable to me that Apple is going down the road of spying on its customers. My prediction is they will have to walk this back, and then probably due it secretly anyway.

 

[dukebound85]

Weird, because I haven’t seen a single coherent explanation of why it’s a problem if your own device scans your photos for child porn, and only does so if you are trying to upload onto apple’s servers, and only produces information to Apple if you have at least thirty child porn photos that you are trying to upload.

because....as has been pointed out many times in responses to your posts.....this is a proof of concept for abuses that are NOT CSAM in the future. Seems pretty coherent to me.
🤦‍♂️

 

[Skewlovevism]

His, and almost everyone else's point, that you're missing entirely, is that they shouldn't be scanning (and more importantly, flagging) ANY of your content, ANYWHERE, EVER.

What they've done is built a content flagging system, that can be repurposed on a whim, under the guise of the safety of children. This feature is protecting 0 children. It's a trojan horse for any totalitarian state. Once they open this Pandora's box, there is no going back.

This is a bad first step. I am also worried, it will expand into a level “he wrote to his friend in messages, that Covid doesn’t exist. This kind of thinking is not allowed, get him!”.

 

[januarydrive7]

That part I definitely get. They are forcing me either to comply with their privacy invasion, or start over with a new ecosystem after 18 years as an Apple customer.

You could continue to use your devices as is; they don't just stop working.

That said, I don't want to sound non-empathetic --- I fully understand the viewpoint many are espousing here, even if I disagree with it. If you're not an iCloud Photos user, then you could update without issue, but that doesn't help if you do use iCloud Photos and think Apple is attempting to install a backdoor.

I think the primary issue is: why did you trust Apple with your data before, and what about this makes you trust them less with your data?

 

[rootee]

Except for Apple never sees it unless it’s a match… a fact that many of you are ignoring in your arguments.

Yes, precisely, your neighbor will only call the authorities if they see your CP. The neighbor in our analogy is the Apple on-device scanner, and Apple is the authority. Does that make more sense?

 

[usagora]

No, I don't want Apple sending my kids' messages. That's quite a leap to "sO yOu DoN'T wAnt TO kNoW yOuR kiDS aRe SAfe?"

Then don't enable that parental control feature. Like I said, it's a pretty self-evident statement that parents want to protect their kids. Sort of silly to object to that.

 

[farewelwilliams]

How many press releases and FAQs do we need to polish this turd?

Until people actually begin to read what Apple is really doing instead of repeating what their echo chamber has said.

 

[januarydrive7]

Yes, precisely, your neighbor will only call the authorities if they see your CP. The neighbor in our analogy is the Apple on-device scanner, and Apple is the authority. Does that make more sense?

Why were you already OK with Apple scanning your photos before this?