Apple Pay Coming to the United Kingdom Next Month, Discover Card Support Arriving This Fall

[ct2k7]

Just a question, surely it is quicker to tap the card on the TfL reader than to attack your phone with your finger and hope it registers it correctly? That is, before a queue grows behind you and people start tutting...

 

[scottish]

Anyone able to help me understand how this will work on the London Underground? The TfL readers require you to tap in and out of the network when you enter or exit a station, calculating the fare based on your route. I thought tokenization equaled anonymity, yet TfL must have the capability to track the same card across multiple taps.

I don't think the token changes. So it's anonymous but doesn't change between taps.

 

[scottish]

Are you sure there is really much of a difference ? I think ApplePay can fallback from NFC to RFID (which are virtually the same thing just running in different modes); On the apple website it says "Look for one of these symbols at checkout." and one of them is just the standard contactless RFID symbol and the other being Apple Pay / NFC.

Sorry what I meant was that although many places where I am have terminals that allow contactless payments, most of them don't have this feature enabled.

 

[displaced]

Stupid Barclays...

Their iOS app is superb, as is their online-banking website -- not that I use the site much as the app is so good. Makes our Co-operative Bank app look like something a work-experience kid threw together over a weekend.

My wife's with TSB, so she'll be happy, and we'll be moving our joint account from Co-op to Santander in a month or so. So I'll just have to rinse the joint account once we've moved it

 

[Random hero]

Just a question, surely it is quicker to tap the card on the TfL reader than to attack your phone with your finger and hope it registers it correctly? That is, before a queue grows behind you and people start tutting...

But if you already have your phone to hand it might be easier

 

[ct2k7]

But if you already have your phone to hand it might be easier

The worst I've had is literally using my US credit card and ending up being pulled away by TfL staff because it wasn't registering my fingerprint... The sweat didn't help though, exacerbated by my frantic movements to get it to work.

 

[Random hero]

Call me sad but I (currently a Barclays customer) had already set an account up with Natwest before the Keynote had finished..... I then installed the Natwest mobile banking app (in preparation for receiving my log in details and found they support Touch ID log ins (something else that Barclays don't bother with yet)


Also I assume that once our cards are supported in the UK then we can use Apple pay abroad to (in a participating country/store)

 

[kdarling]

I don't think the token changes. So it's anonymous but doesn't change between taps.

That is correct. The token account number does not change.

However, the token for each card IS unique per device. So even with the same registered card account, you could not tap in with your iPhone and tap out with your Apple Watch, and expect TfL to match the two different tokens.

Just seen this, Is this just Barclays being greedy??

http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/08/barclays-apple-pay-uk/

More like Apple being greedy. They want a slice of each purchase in return for providing an NFC platform, something nobody else has done yet.

Moreover, Apple wants the banks to give back a good amount of purchasing information that is normally considered bank proprietary information.

I just remembered a rumour on this website about a month ago that one major UK bank was holding up the launch, well I think we now know this was Barclays all along. Well done barclays, you delayed the launch for everyone else and don't even support it when it does get launched. Who banks with barclays anyway after the libor scandal and being rated as having the worst customer service of any bank in the UK?

No single bank can hold up Apple Pay. Otherwise, no one would ever see it in action.

Heck, there are still hundreds of banks that don't support it.

 

[scottish]

Call me sad but I (currently a Barclays customer) had already set an account up with Natwest before the Keynote had finished..... I then installed the Natwest mobile banking app (in preparation for receiving my log in details and found they support Touch ID log ins (something else that Barclays don't bother with yet)


Also I assume that once our cards are supported in the UK then we can use Apple pay abroad to (in a participating country/store)

Not sad at all. Good to have a secondary current account too - Barclays for you now I guess unless you close it.

I've accounts with RBS, TSB, Bank of Scotland, Halifax and Nationwide (to maximise interest). Didn't expect them all to be announced as supporting Apple Pay!

RBS/NatWest certainly don't have the most competitive accounts but their mobile banking and its related features are good.

 

[mopatops]

I don't think the token changes. So it's anonymous but doesn't change between taps.

Cheers! Just found the Apple Pay security and privacy overview which confirms:

"After you use Touch ID or enter your passcode on iPhone, or double-click the side button on Apple Watch at a payment terminal, the Secure Element provides your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code. This information is sent along with additional information needed to complete the transaction to the store’s point of sale terminal."

Must be using the Device Account Number to track the phone/watch across taps.

 

[magicMac]

Cheers! Just found the Apple Pay security and privacy overview which confirms:

"After you use Touch ID or enter your passcode on iPhone, or double-click the side button on Apple Watch at a payment terminal, the Secure Element provides your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code. This information is sent along with additional information needed to complete the transaction to the store’s point of sale terminal."

Must be using the Device Account Number to track the phone/watch across taps.

The dynamic security code is only used to process payment. In other words - when you "tap in" with your phone or watch, only the DAN is sent to the terminal, and when you "tap out", the DAN is checked against the database to see if it has already been "tapped in". If the DAN is in the database, the fee is calculated based on the zones of both the "tap in" and "tap out" terminals, and finally the payment is requested and your phone or watch sends the dynamic security code. If you "tap out" with a DAN which is not in the database, it will count as a "tap in" - so be careful to use the same device to "tap out" with as the one you used to "tap in" with. Hopefully thats not clear as mud. Think of tapping in and tapping out as completing one single transaction; they are not two separate transactions.

 

[eish2306]

I don't think it's Oyster on your device; it's taking the regular single fare from your bank card (subject to daily/weekly capping). It would be good to have a way of using iPhone/Apple Watch whilst also getting railcard discounts (which are applied to Oyster cards) and long term Travelcard rates.

I hope you can add the oyster card - its sort of like a store card so fingers crossed maybe?

 

[stanley_2010]

Congrats to our British mates from Canada on getting Apple pay! Hopefully we can join you soon in using a single device to make purchases. Our banks want us to use their own products and bracelets to pay. Hopefully the consumers win out, only time will tell.

 

[9699624]

Canada is always last to adopt with everything...

 

[Loucifer]

Yes yes yes!!!! Thanks Apple, very excited!!!

 

[camperdown9]

Really pleased that Apple Pay is coming to the UK. There is nothing worse than in summer walking around with a wallet, set of keys, phone, security pass, oyster card stuffed in the pockets of a pair of jeans.

I did find it funny that at least on the live update feed from the keynote, they announced "Ulster Bank" first. Not that there is anything wrong with Ulster Bank but I would of thought that Natwest, HSBC or Nationwide would of been mentioned first.

For those of you unhappy with Barclays:

First Direct will give you a £100 for switching to them.
Halifax will give you a £100 for switch to them and then £5 per month for paying two direct debits from your account.
Nationwide Flexdirect account doesn't give you a joining bonus but pays 5% interest on balances of up to £2500 for the first year. All I'm saying is that there are other options.

 

[Hermes Monster]

Why HSBC? You could switch to Halifax, for example, and get paid to do so.



TSB is no longer part of Lloyds Banking Group (though I believe LBG still has shares in TSB).



Where do you live?! Although most of the terminals near me are contactless, most don't have contactless enabled unfortunately.

That's correct, TSB is now a separate bank, but LBG still provide the IT infrastructure

 

[camperdown9]

It's a constant downhill slide with them. My card was originally from egg, but when they got bought by Barclays, the cashback started going down; 5%, 4%... now just 1% on the Anerican Express version, and who uses or accepts American Express??!?

I put everything on my Amex card so that I get the 1.5% cash back (platinum card) and then pay it of every month in full. (Never give them a penny in interest or charges). Years ago very few retailers excepted it, now at least in central London its rare for someone to say they don't take it.

 

[Kebabselector]

No sign of Barclays anytime this year new bank time

My feelings exactly - time to shop around!

Looking at the Barclays Bank UK twitter feed it seems many others are looking to move

Thanks for your tweets this evening. We can assure you that we've been talking with Apple about how our customers.....could use Apple Pay in addition to our existing mobile and payment services, and that these talks remain constructive.

 

[dwjpaypal]

OK, so here's my issue with apply pay for Oyster.

For those of you that wear the watch on your left wrist (most people) its going to be very awquard movement to use oyster, as the readers are always on the right. So you'll have to reach over, press the friends button and wait for it to authorise and then walk through. Its not going to be as convenient as we all think it's going to be.

I've already had an issue with using my watch in Starbucks with the passbook app whereby I had to rotate my wrist at such an awquard angle for them to be able to read it with the barcode scanner and the watch kept turning its face off as it thought my wrist was going down, I'm just not 100% sold on Oyster, especially travelling to Oxford Circus daily in rush hour I don't want to be the guy holding everyone in the Q up!

 

[jannette]

Yes,

You would have been willing to pay awful exchange rates and additional fees just to use Apple Pay?

I have a US card and I can use it on my Watch - I had to change my region to USA on my iPhone and then I was able to scan the card into the phone and it also appears on the Watch. I can use it in the UK for transactions up to £20 with Apple Pay.

I am not using it - I just tried as an experiment and it worked but I did get charged for using it by my US bank.

 

[Robert.Walter]

...

More like Apple being greedy. They want a slice of each purchase in return for providing an NFC platform, something nobody else has done yet.
- A fee of 0.15% is greedy? As for Apple charging for its service, while others don't/(can't) maybe it is because nobody else has such an easy to use and secure platform as Apple does. Why expect Apple to give it away, do you work for free?

Moreover, Apple wants the banks to give back a good amount of purchasing information that is normally considered bank proprietary information.
- This was the banking industry talking point (along with security FUD) that was used as the justification for foot dragging in signing up to AP.

No single bank can hold up Apple Pay. Otherwise, no one would ever see it in action.
- The hold up came from Apple's desire to announce that it had all the leading issuing banks on board. Barclay calculated they could extract better terms by slow-walking and holding Apple's announcement hostage; Barclays calculated wrong.

Heck, there are still hundreds of banks that don't support it.
- small fish that don't figure into an initial roll-out but that risk customer emigration if they don't sign up to offer AP.

 

[Robert.Walter]

OK, so here's my issue with apply pay for Oyster.

For those of you that wear the watch on your left wrist (most people) its going to be very awquard movement to use oyster, as the readers are always on the right. So you'll have to reach over, press the friends button and wait for it to authorise and then walk through. Its not going to be as convenient as we all think it's going to be.

I've already had an issue with using my watch in Starbucks with the passbook app whereby I had to rotate my wrist at such an awquard angle for them to be able to read it with the barcode scanner and the watch kept turning its face off as it thought my wrist was going down, I'm just not 100% sold on Oyster, especially travelling to Oxford Circus daily in rush hour I don't want to be the guy holding everyone in the Q up!

If your use case is special, swap your watch to your other wrist. There is a setting which allows for this.

 

[starnox]

Can anyone confirm but I assume the bank providing Apple Pay is more important than the card type.

E.g. I have a lloyds amex. So even though Amex is supported next month, Lloyds won't be for a few months so I will have to wait?

Might get that BA Amex instead

 

[bigchrisfgb]

Call me sad but I (currently a Barclays customer) had already set an account up with Natwest before the Keynote had finished..... I then installed the Natwest mobile banking app (in preparation for receiving my log in details and found they support Touch ID log ins (something else that Barclays don't bother with yet)


Also I assume that once our cards are supported in the UK then we can use Apple pay abroad to (in a participating country/store)

Your not sad. If your account isn't working for you then you have the right to move. If ease of payment is important to you then go for it.
I once moved to a different bank because my old bank wouldn't offer me a chip and pin card.