In the UK, the limit is £20 yes, but newer terminals can go online at that point instead of requiring card insertion if the card and terminal both support this. (I believe this is an option in the UK, each country is different though in exact allowed processing options).
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Apple Pay Doubled Mobile Wallet Transactions at Walgreens, Accounted for 50% of Tap-to-Pay Purchases at McDonald's
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In the UK, the limit is £20 yes, but newer terminals can go online at that point instead of requiring card insertion if the card and terminal both support this. (I believe this is an option in the UK, each country is different though in exact allowed processing options).
You make some good points in your post, but I think you gloss over a key point when trying to color the typical Apple user as blindly dismissing a technology prior to Apple offering it:
Prior to Apple Pay, NFC payments were no more secure, convenient or private than using plastic. In fact, it could be argued that they were less convenient, and with Google involved definitely less private. Apple Pay changed that.
I said it at the time of the keynote in September, and I will say it again. Of the three big announcements of the day, Apple Pay was by far the biggest. It has the potential to change a big part of the banking and credit card industries, and our interaction with them.
I wouldn't want my credit cards to have NFC. Since I carry multiple cards, I couldn't just hold my wallet up to the terminal. It wouldn't know which card I prefer to use. With Apple Pay, I can designate which one I want to be default, and I can change it before completing the transaction.
Also anyone who lifted my wallet could make NFC purchases just as easily as I could, since the card has no way of knowing whether I am the one holding it. Apple Pay requires my finger to be on the TouchID so that it knows I'm the one making the purchase. I like that.
I noticed that in the photo of # Pay on iPhone 6, the Walgreen's card appears red. While the points card is blue. Is this just indicative that Walgreen's is partner? Until Apple integrates point cards into # Pay your still going to have to pull out your individuial store card to get the cheaper price. So the stores are still going to get information off you, even when Apple integrates it into # Pay. That... to me is a small price to pay for the overall security that # Pay is going to provide the merchant and consumer. What's wrong with these merchants that refuse to enable NFC. I know, to much money invested, money hungry and afraid they'll be sued if they break the contract. But, if I'm correct Panera Bread was part of the Walmart coalition and still decided to except # Pay. Props to Panera Bread! CVS suck it!
In the past few weeks, I've successfully used Apple pay at Walgreens and McDonalds.
I was in Home Depot yesterday and even though I have not seen any mention of Home Depot participating in Apple pay, I tried it and it worked!!
The register terminal didn't even have an NFC symbol on the hardware but I happened to see an icon on the screen for a second while the transaction was processing so I just held my phone close to the terminal and pressed the home button and it was done quickly.
It seems to be that any merchant that has NFC capability will process Apple pay transactions as long as they haven't specifically blocked it like Rite Aid and CVS. All of the cashier employees that I have used it in front of are all amazed at how quick and easy it is. Pretty cool.
I was in Home Depot yesterday and even though I have not seen any mention of Home Depot participating in Apple pay, I tried it and it worked!!
The register terminal didn't even have an NFC symbol on the hardware but I happened to see an icon on the screen for a second while the transaction was processing so I just held my phone close to the terminal and pressed the home button and it was done quickly.It seems to be that any merchant that has NFC capability will process Apple pay transactions as long as they haven't specifically blocked it like Rite Aid and CVS. All of the cashier employees that I have used it in front of are all amazed at how quick and easy it is. Pretty cool.
Where have you been? ApplePay has worked on any PayPass terminal, symbol or no symbol. I've used it at gas stations, grocery stores, etc and none of them were on Apple's list.
I believe the limit is in place because there is no user authentication which takes place for contactless payments. I guess they could ask you to enter your PIN for larger transactions, although thats starts to impinge on the convenience factor which is one of the primary USP's.
What they can't allow is users to simply tap their card for larger payments as that would be vastly less secure then even the old signature verification. They need a way to authenticate the user for NFC payments, wether that be using the PIN or something like Apple's fingerprint auth. Otherwise the providers would haemorrhage money as CC's fraud became childs play :/
I have my Walgreens balance rewards card in my passbook, as well as my credit cards. It would be nice to have it all integrated, and use NFC for both (instead of having to scan the bar code from my phone's screen a la CurrentC).
Integration is a natural thing to hope for, but I think it requires a lot more custom code on the part of each merchant. The "PIN Pad", which is what the company I work for calls the credit card swipe device would have to communicate with the merchant's POS system at more than one point in the transaction. First when you scan your membership card (usually at the beginning of the transaction) and then when you scan the payment.
The manufacturer of the PIN Pad is also responsible for providing security around the payment data. It's them, not Apple (or Google) who needs to program the PIN Pad and make sure that added functionality doesn't compromise security.
Apple (and Google) will be more than willing to help with creating and following standards for loyalty cards, but they can't do it without the PIN Pad manufacturers' help. Until they work that out, we'll be stuck with optically scanning, using the existing standards of a different device (the handheld scanner they use to scan merchandise).
Its been running over here for some time now with minimal issues as users get used to the system. Yes initially people were having issues with the wrong card being charged and even inadvertent billing as someone got too close to a terminal :/ But its starting to become ubiquitous now with minimal reports of issues (the old signature verification system hardly took a criminal mastermind to abuse).
As an example I had a slot in my phone sleeve for the card I generally use for small transactions (akin to the default card you'd set for Apple Pay). I just tap that instead of my wallet. If I want to use a different card I take it out of my wallet (akin to you selecting a different card on your phone). The process is hardly more onerous then you describe for usage of Apple Pay.
WRT security, in Europe the transaction size is limited (£20 in UK). Plus only a certain number of contactless payments will go through before a CHIP and PIN transaction is forced. Therefore it limits the value of targeting the system to thieves and the bank will cover you.
I don't think Apple Pay, or mobile phone NFC payments provide a compelling USP over NFC enabled plastic with the current usage scenario. As I said before, its hardly easier to tap your phone then your CC. And to use my phone I have to setup Google Wallet/Apple Pay first.
However, its the authentication portion of Apple Pay that presents a possible game changer IMO. Since these transactions are authenticated by your finger print we may see limits raised or removed. Moreover, it makes my PIN and card more secure. The card never enters the merchants terminal (as it would have to for a Chip and PIN transaction). My PIN doesn't have to be entered on the terminal (limiting opportunities for people to compromisee my PIN). Fewer people see my card details and I can actually consider leaving supplementary cards at home, meaning a lot less hassle if someone lifts my wallet.
Wether things will play out in this way is another question. I had some hopes for Passbook, but so far its been very disappointing
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Even at Walgreen's when I spent $100 and paid with Apple Pay, I still had to sign on the PIN Pad. I would have thought my fingerprint was better authentication than my illegible signature, but it probably has more to do with store policy, or the fact that they can't (or can't currently) distinguish Apple Pay from Google Wallet or an NFC-enabled credit card.
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Apple Pay gives Passbook something useful to do, more often than concert tickets. The one thing I used Passbook for regularly before Apple Pay was boarding passes for airline travel. That was and is useful.Its been running over here for some time now with minimal issues as users get used to the system. Yes initially people were having issues with the wrong card being charged and even inadvertent billing as someone got too close to a terminal :/ But its starting to become ubiquitous now with minimal reports of issues (the old signature verification system hardly took a criminal mastermind to abuse).
As an example I had a slot in my phone sleeve for the card I generally use for small transactions (akin to the default card you'd set for Apple Pay). I just tap that instead of my wallet. If I want to use a different card I take it out of my wallet (akin to you selecting a different card on your phone). The process is hardly more onerous then you describe for usage of Apple Pay.
WRT security, in Europe the transaction size is limited (£20 in UK). Plus only a certain number of contactless payments will go through before a CHIP and PIN transaction is forced. Therefore it limits the value of targeting the system to thieves and the bank will cover you.
I don't think Apple Pay, or mobile phone NFC payments provide a compelling USP over NFC enabled plastic with the current usage scenario. As I said before, its hardly easier to tap your phone then your CC. And to use my phone I have to setup Google Wallet/Apple Pay first.
However, its the authentication portion of Apple Pay that presents a possible game changer IMO. Since these transactions are authenticated by your finger print we may see limits raised or removed. Moreover, it makes my PIN and card more secure. The card never enters the merchants terminal (as it would have to for a Chip and PIN transaction). My PIN doesn't have to be entered on the terminal (limiting opportunities for people to get my PIN). Fewer people see my card details and I can actually consider leaving supplementary cards at home, meaning a lot less hassle if someone lifts my wallet.
Wether things will play out in this way is another question. I had some hopes for Passbook, but so far its been very disappointing
I suspect its the latter. As well as the terms of card providers/payment processors not having been updated yet. Where the risk/responsibility lies is pretty well defined for signature/Chip and PIN transactions. Merchants, processors and consumers generally know where they stand. They'll want the same level of understanding in place before they open up something like Apple Pay to larger transactions, solely authenticating the user on the device.
As an interesting side note the last point leads me to the question, where will mass adoption of services such as Apple Pay leave Jailbreaking/Rooting? I've long given up with modifying my phones. Firstly because I got fed up of "fixing" services like Sky Go (UK satellite providers remote viewing App) to work with a Jailbroken/Rooted phone. Secondly because I'm a little nervous about using banking Apps on such a device. When you're device becomes the digital store for your CC's, who's going to risk messing with that device. I'm not talking about technically compromising the security of the device, but rather legally compromising yourself by shifting the balance of responsibility for fraud to you :/
Unfortunately when it comes to flights I'm belts and braces man, I always print physical copies of boarding passes and use electronic as backup. This likely due to bad experiences around the world where "security" have demanded the physical pass (India is a good example).
What annoys the hell out of me is even the large chains haven't adopted Passbook (or the Android equivalent, or even a bloody App)
Everyones bleating on about this amazing silicon in our pockets and 4G networks, but IMO the services are lagging way behind.
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Almost all of my travel these days is domestic US, so I never worry about needing a printed boarding pass (except in cases where I change something at the counter and they print one for me).
It's nice to be able to check in on the way to the airport, and have a boarding pass on my phone. Even if I arrive at the airport too late for the automated kiosk to give me a boarding pass, the one on my phone still works.
"Belts and braces": I like that. We usually say "Belts and Suspenders", but I always preferred braces to suspenders.
Correct, if you go over the limit, it will go online and ask for PIN/signature (depending on the issuer and the terminal configuration). Exactly how and where this works varies by country, issuer, and merchant.
A rising tide floats all boats.
arsTechnica says that Google Wallet transactions have increased by 50%, and the new-user signup rate has doubled.
It would be mildly surprising if the signature requirement was ever different between Apple Pay and regular credit cards.
TouchID is more about convenience and peace of mind to the user, than about security to the banks. The phone can still be unlocked (and the fingerprints changed) using a passcode.
Fingerprints were suggested a few years ago as another cardholder verification method for EMV payments, but the pilot test used a fingerprint reader in the POS terminal, with preregistered fingerprint data stored in the credit card.
Okay. I thought you were talking about why most people didn't think about using NFC on a phone. I was agreeing with you that if something is out of sight, then it's also usually out of mind.
I was also saying that your thought of using tags to give commands, is indeed a known valuable example. In addition, we have found exchanging info quickly (without having to choose a recipient from a list, or set up inter-person comms) to be quite useful.
They're parents, so in a way, yes they are
If they're taking two cars and meeting someplace new later on, one of them will bring up the directions and tap to instantly open the same directions on the other's phone, ready to navigate.
I'm struggling to remember ever exchanging directions digitally with someone, address and contact details yes but never directions
Perhaps because you didn't have the capability to easily do so.
There's alternatives for many things, if you're missing a feature. But I thought the conversation was about having the feature.
Exactly.
With Android, touching while an app is open will send info to the other phone to duplicate what the first person is seeing. For example, one time I had a radar app open showing a snowstorm track, and tapped his phone, whereupon his phone opened up the same radar app, showing the same scene. We had actually forgotten that he had that app.
Other phones with NFC will do some of this. Blackberrys will open web pages when passed a url, for instance.
It would be really great if Apple embraced the same NFC info exchange standards that other phones use, but I'm not holding my breath.
NFC is still compelling to many other people, even if they have to continue to carry their driver's license around.
Cheers!
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Dubious... That's what it is.
You can bring headline after headline if u want to, and it will make people scream like a school girl, but that doesn't mean it will be successful everywhere.
I do believe it will be successful in the U.S only...
Edits: (Gee. I wonder why that would be)
For everywhere outside, people will use it internationally as well, but U.S people will be the only ones to go nuts here. Just like any tech.
You can bring headline after headline if u want to, and it will make people scream like a school girl, but that doesn't mean it will be successful everywhere.
I do believe it will be successful in the U.S only...
Edits: (Gee. I wonder why that would be)
For everywhere outside, people will use it internationally as well, but U.S people will be the only ones to go nuts here. Just like any tech.
Scanning the balance reward card is inconvenient, but allows me to control when to share info about what I purchase (and when to receive discounts). Integration of loyalty would be great if I usually wanted to share. But for some purchases, I prefer to remain anonymous.
What bothered me tonight however is new: Walgreens ADDED another step for all purchases, regardless of amount. After scanning balance rewards for my discount and completing Touch ID for a $10 purchase, the attendant told me I had to respond to the question on the terminal - whether I wanted to donate $10-30 for the diabetes foundation. I understand the need to promote donations, but making it part of the mandatory workflow to complete the transaction really irked me and lowered my perception of Walgreens "getting" the point of generating traffic with simplicity. A promotion notice in front of the terminal would have had a better affect on me.
Dubious... That's what it is.
You can bring headline after headline if u want to, and it will make people scream like a school girl, but that doesn't mean it will be successful everywhere.
I do believe it will be successful in the U.S only...
Edits: (Gee. I wonder why that would be)
For everywhere outside, people will use it internationally as well, but U.S people will be the only ones to go nuts here. Just like any tech.
NFC is already present everywhere. They only need to have the banks onside in each countries for it to be a success. Since NFC is already used, there will of course less hype about using another variant of it.
i wasn't talking of NFC being everywhere per say, just that you won't see a huge amount of users outside the U.S using Apple Pay, or not much NFC for that matter.
With exception to credit cards, that is.
I do believe when it hits, we'll use it, but not in the mass numbers U.S people do, since we are just not like that.
With exception to credit cards, that is.
I do believe when it hits, we'll use it, but not in the mass numbers U.S people do, since we are just not like that.
Walgreens has a ton of questions on their terminals ranging from rate your cashier to donation prompts to do you know about our app? I wish they would find a new place to ask these questions because they really slow you down.
It looks like MCX could be viable after all these added mandatory workflow steps to Apple Pay but unrelated to purchase. Evens the playing field enough in terms of speed and simplicity
. With that said, I bet Apple will expand support to checking accounts once it catches on and the card co's become dependent on mPayment services like Google and AppleIt looks like MCX could be viable after all these added mandatory workflow steps to Apple Pay but unrelated to purchase. Evens the playing field enough in terms of speed and simplicity
CurrentC still isn't viable because it's a security nightmare.