Apple Pay for Transit: Now Accepted in Singapore, NYC Testing Soon, Chicago and Portland to Integrate Fare Cards

[lartola]

I'm a Kansas City boy and even I think this might not be a good idea. When we visit NYC we stay with a local and you're supposed to walk through and swipe your pass quickly all in one fluid movement while moving forward. During peak times if people are having to stop to get out their phone/picking up dropped phones/unlocking the phone and tapping it to the thing and waiting for it to authenticate then having to take off their face scarf in the winter to scan their face or fumble with a passcode then that is going to take a long time. It shouldn't need FaceID to authenticate it's just a freaking subway pass. It needs to be faster or it's going to get backed up and even more people will be jumping the gates. Any locals agree with this or am I way off base? I'm not a local but logically it makes sense given my limited experience there and basic critical thinking skills. But then again sometimes the cards don't swipe properly.

Like I said before, the public transportation card should be stored as a pass with nfc enabled, like walgreens’ balance rewards card is. That way it can be read over NFC but won’t require any authentication.
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From what I've seen with Apple Pay, as quick as it is at a register, it's not that fast. I'm sure this will to slow turnstiles down very badly. Even a couple second delay is enough to make traffic start to back up.

Not if the subway card is stored in the passes section of the wallet app instead of as a credit/debit card. Passes can be enabled for use over nfc, like walgreens’ rewards card is, and don’t require authentication. Presumably, that would also be how universities handle storing student ID cards in the wallet app.
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This is a common situation when one adopts a technology earlier, one tends to take longer to upgrade to the newer better one. Mobile phone adoption was slower here in the U.S. because landlines were cheap and ubiquitous, where in many places, not having as many landlines meant that mobile rolled out faster.

In France, MiniTel was great, but meant that real internet took longer to roll out.

In the U.S. every merchant accepted credit and charge cards (and most Americans had a credit card) long before they did in the UK and Europe. That meant that when stores in the UK and Europe began to roll out card acceptance, they were doing it with newer technology.

I guess landlines being cheap is probably also the reason why the pay phones operated with chip phone cards never replaced the coin operated phones in the US, whereas they were very popular elsewhere.

 

[Hyperchaotic]

Samsung Pay have the option to set up a ‘transport card’ without the need to use biometric authorisation so I hope, in time, Apple follow suit.

Apple do have this, it's called Express transit. In systems where you have to authorize it's because you're paying with your credit card in the wallet rather than a transit card. In Vancouver, for example, you can pay with Apple Pay/Credit card but our Compass Card card is not Express transit compatible.
It's annoying also because I use a concession card and I really want it in my Apple Wallet as Express transit.

 

[lartola]

Some do. But New Yorkers are honest, as a rule. Are Floridians? The other day some guy tapped me on the shoulder and gave me back $2 I had dropped. But this is off topic.

Floridians, like Texans and everyone else in the southern US don’t even have subway systems. At most, those cities will usually have a limited bus system and maybe one or two light rail routes, and not too many people use those transportation systems because the majority have a car.

 

[adc--]

Was a beta tester for the contactless transport payment in Singapore for the past year. Initially it was very slow and unreliable. Apple Pay timed out often, and on the random chance it was successful, the response on the card reader took significantly longer than using the physical prepaid travel card. You could literally feel the stares and hear the audible sighs of the commuters queuing behind me. I also got overcharged on buses a few times as Singapore operates on a distance-based fare model (i.e. you have to tap in and out for your actual fare to be calculated, failure to tap out will result in maximum fare charged) so sometimes when the GPS on the entry card readers weren't working, the driver would have to reset the position thus causing my ride to be voided and I was charged the full fare. So eventually I gave up and went back to using the travel card.

When it was launched yesterday, I gave it a try again. I was pleasantly surprised by how fast it is now, and since I already had an account (you don't have to register for one if you don't want to give out your personal details), I could see the ride details (fare charged & exact tap in and tap out timing) almost instantly on the companion app. The system is actually very similar to Contactless in London. There's a Reddit thread on r/singapore with more people sharing their experiences, with most being positive.

 

[nicho]

ust used my Apple Watch to pay for a train ride. Main issue is that the payment gantry is situated on my right, while I wear my watch on my left wrist. Which makes it a little awkward when it comes to positioning.

Probably going to face a similar issue with my phone.

Putting the phone into your other hand to swipe through the gate isn't exactly difficult. You get used to it quickly.

 

[Abazigal]

Putting the phone into your other hand to swipe through the gate isn't exactly difficult. You get used to it quickly.

Look forward to trying it out on my phone when I get off from work later.

 

[Escape Velocity]

Kaohsiung, Taiwan (in southern Taiwan) has accepted Apple Pay for the MRT. I don't know if busses take it, but it's the first transportation system I've seen in Taiwan that does. It, like Singapore, is Mastercard only.

 

[bushman4]

Could be a year or two away till the entire NYC transit system is outfitted with readers. Should be a big improvement once the MTA gets it right

 

[truthertech]

As Apple Pay works now, this would be slower than swiping your card though.

No, even with Touch ID, it’s faster than swiping

 

[justperry]

A terrible solution. I do not want a million different apps for different systems around the world, nor do I want to fund them by leaving money in a pre-paid account I will never use. I no longer remember the number, but a large percentage of D.C.’s Metro budget comes from unused balances left on metrocards by tourists.

You don't need millions, just a few and also not needed to open every time you need it, just tap and be done with it.

You don´t need this. Suica in Japan is also integrated into Apple Wallet without opening NFC. It is possible to add transport cards to Wallet.

Yes I need this, it will take forever for Apple to add this for our public transport system or any transport system around the world, i bet 100's will be added in mere months if NFC was available to app devs in no time.

That’s not necessary. Maybe you don’t know this, but the wallet app supports passes with nfc capabilities too, that you can use by tapping. A good example of this is walgreens’ balance rewards card in the US. You store it in wallet and then you can accumulate or redeem points by simply tapping your device on the same nfc reader where you would tap it to pay using apple pay. And it doesn’t require authentication, which means nfc capable passes can be set up not to require passcode or fingerprint authentication. So maybe the public transportation entities could set up their cards to be stored as nfc passes rather than as debit cards and the problem is solved.

Inconvenient, why open your phone if you could just tap it.

 

[Steve686]

Well, for instance, right now you can use Apple Pay to log into an ATM. There is no transaction amount; the Apple Pay transaction is just to identify you so you can log in with your PIN.

They could theoretically do the same with transit cards. You buy a "virtual transit card" with Apple Pay for $20, then when you Apple Pay at the turnstile, it just uses that to determine that it's you and lets you through, deducting it from the balance. The idea is to not have to do millions of $2-$3 transactions daily.

This would also work for monthly passes and the like.

I use Bank of America ATM-without a card. It is great as it works with Watch and iPhone.

What I am hoping for is is a more direct NFC activation that bypasses(optional) double clicking to activate Apple Pay while still initializing Face/Touch/Code ID at points of entry into a transit system.

Otherwise, honestly, bus passes with RF chips work just fine.

 

[MoreRumors?]

Apple Pay would be more convenient for visitors but for city residents who commute on a daily basis, the transit agency would have to iron out how the discount would be applied as well as pre-tax transit benefit. Until more details are provided, it will be unknown if Apple Pay offers any discount for visitors and residents.

 

[Saltank]

Perhaps I am an exception to the others who say it works fine in London.
Using an Apple Watch Series 3, I would have 2-3 failed attempts at the gates, several times a week. Using Apple Pay on an iPhone does not exhibit the same amount of error, if any, from when I used to use it more regularly. I don't always have an error message at the gates, but when I do it's something about using just one card on the reader.

I've also concluded that using an Oyster is milliseconds fast between the card being read and gates opening, whereas with Contactless and Apple Pay there is a delay of maybe about 250ms which is quite irritating.

Finally, contactless debit/credit cards and people that use them seem to get stuck in the gates on a very frequent basis, so there's something up with the tech that is inferior to using a plain Oyster card.

 

[nikusak]

"that means double-pressing the home button or side button, authenticating with Touch ID or Face ID, and holding the iPhone near the card reader."

This takes too long. I know it seems fast, but I've been in NYC and ridden the subway quite a few times and it's a constant flow of people through the turnstiles, each person swiping their card through as they're walking.

If there's any kind of delay, like having to satisfy FaceID or wait for TouchID, it's going to slow things down and people will get pissed.

Just activate Apple Pay when walking towards the turnstile. Payment is then just as fast as it is with a card. You don’t need to wait for Face ID or Touch ID at the turnstile.

Especially with Touch ID:

You can make Apple Pay / Wallet launch automatically when you double click home when the phone is locked.

Your finger is read and you then have 60 seconds to pay.

You don’t need to keep your finger on the scanner anymore at that point.

 

[zorinlynx]

Finally, contactless debit/credit cards and people that use them seem to get stuck in the gates on a very frequent basis, so there's something up with the tech that is inferior to using a plain Oyster card.

Using a card native to the service you're using is always going to be faster and more reliable than a credit card or equivalent (Apple Pay) where a third party does the authorization.

 

[ignatius345]

Like I said before, the public transportation card should be stored as a pass with nfc enabled, like walgreens’ balance rewards card is. That way it can be read over NFC but won’t require any authentication.

Huh! I didn't realize this. If it truly is a "tap and go" situation, I could see it working alright?

Once you start authenticating / unlocking, etc it would become a nightmare.
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Just activate Apple Pay when walking towards the turnstile. Payment is then just as fast as it is with a card. You don’t need to wait for Face ID or Touch ID at the turnstile.

Especially with Touch ID:

You can make Apple Pay / Wallet launch automatically when you double click home when the phone is locked.

Your finger is read and you then have 60 seconds to pay.

You don’t need to keep your finger on the scanner anymore at that point.

There's one thing you're not really factoring in there: not everyone is going to be doing the super efficient thing you just described. Plenty of people will walk up to the turnstile, stand there, switch over from Instagram or whatever, launch their wallet app... all while someone who prepped for this as you described stands behind them waiting...

 

[recoil80]

Just used my Apple Watch to pay for a train ride. Main issue is that the payment gantry is situated on my right, while I wear my watch on my left wrist. Which makes it a little awkward when it comes to positioning.

Probably going to face a similar issue with my phone.

Nice idea, kinda let down by awkward positioning when you try to force new technology onto existing tech.

Will try it out for a few more days and see if this gets any easier.

I'd have the same problem but I'd rather reach for it with my left arm instead of taking the iPhone out of my pocket with the right hand.

 

[lartola]

Inconvenient, why open your phone if you could just tap it.

You don't have to open your phone. When you double click the side button (or home button on older iPhones) it also brings up your passes, not just credit and debit cards. Then, if you select a pass that's nfc enabled, like the Walgreens card, it will immediately prompt you to hold near the reader without requiring any passcode, fingerprint or face authentication before. And if you have an Apple Watch it's even more convenient, because you don't even need to take out anything from your pocket.

 

[justperry]

You don't have to open your phone. When you double click the side button (or home button on older iPhones) it also brings up your passes, not just credit and debit cards. Then, if you select a pass that's nfc enabled, like the Walgreens card, it will immediately prompt you to hold near the reader without requiring any passcode, fingerprint or face authentication before. And if you have an Apple Watch it's even more convenient, because you don't even need to take out anything from your pocket.

Huh.......that's opening, I just want to grap my iPhone and tap it.

 

[ignatius345]

No, even with Touch ID, it’s faster than swiping

Not with Touch ID or any pause at all. I think you're misunderstanding how quickly one can swipe a Metrocard. People literally do it AS they're walking, without breaking stride.Do you live in NYC? Use a Metrocard and turnstiles daily?

 

[nicho]

What I am hoping for is is a more direct NFC activation that bypasses(optional) double clicking to activate Apple Pay while still initializing Face/Touch/Code ID at points of entry into a transit system.

I don't think you've thought the steps for this through. How would the NFC activate on its own yet initialise face ID? By the point you're holding it close to the gate, FaceID isn't going to work. Thats pretty much why "Express Transit" and bypassing FaceID exists. The alternative is some kind of beacon-based solution thats going to piss off everyone who *doesn't* want to use Apple Pay when their phone acts as if they do.

Its been a while since I got my X now, but IIRC the older touch ID phones did work that way. If you wanted to use the default card you just put your thumbprint on the home button and held the phone at the reader, no clicking required.

 

[Crowbot]

Floridians, like Texans and everyone else in the southern US don’t even have subway systems. At most, those cities will usually have a limited bus system and maybe one or two light rail routes, and not too many people use those transportation systems because the majority have a car.

I get that. I was just pushing back because the post sounded like all NYers are thieves. Not appreciated. Even in jest.

 

[Alan Wynn]

You don't need millions, just a few and also not needed to open every time you need it, just tap and be done with it.

One needs one for every transit system one would want to use. On the other hand, every transit system that supports plain tap to pay (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc.) would be supported right away.

In addition, everyone of those that is a stored value card means one more place to leave money on the table. I think I currently have cards with money on them from Atlanta, Chicago, Las Vegas, LA, Montreal, Paris, San Francisco, Santiago de Chile, Seattle, Toronto, Vancouver, BC and Washington DC.

Much rather just use standard tap to pay than require adding a new stored value card and special app for every city I visit.

 

[Alith]

Huh! I didn't realize this. If it truly is a "tap and go" situation, I could see it working alright?

Once you start authenticating / unlocking, etc it would become a nightmare.
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There's one thing you're not really factoring in there: not everyone is going to be doing the super efficient thing you just described. Plenty of people will walk up to the turnstile, stand there, switch over from Instagram or whatever, launch their wallet app... all while someone who prepped for this as you described stands behind them waiting...

All the commuters will be doing the super efficient thing, they do in London already. It's the same reader for travel cards, contactless cards, phones and watches. It's a steady stream of people tapping whatever they use as they walk through. We don't have turnstiles in London, we have barriers. During rush hour the density of people going through them is so high that they don't even close.

Those people you mention are the same people that are already fishing about for cards in bags at the barrier/turnstile. They are probably tourists.

 

[ignatius345]

All the commuters will be doing the super efficient thing, they do in London already. It's the same reader for travel cards, contactless cards, phones and watches. It's a steady stream of people tapping whatever they use as they walk through. We don't have turnstiles in London, we have barriers. During rush hour the density of people going through them is so high that they don't even close.

If the system is truly a tap and go kind of thing, sure, this could work great as you say. If there's unlocking of phones required, it would be a nightmare.

Those people you mention are the same people that are already fishing about for cards in bags at the barrier/turnstile. They are probably tourists.

No, they're not all tourists. People who live here are also quite capable of waiting until the last moment to find their metrocard. The vast majority of people have their act together, however. The tourists are the ones who are sliding their metrocard through at some insanely slow or fast speed and being baffled when it doesn't work