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As a Londoner myself, most of us who live & work in London and use public transport to commute have a travelcard on an Oyster. Contactless is a great option for homeworkers, those who don’t commute every day, and of course tourists, but to suggest that TfL are on the cusp of phasing out Oyster is a bit premature: the throngs of us who have travelcards on our Oysters can’t be served any other way at the moment, and we are a rather large constituency.




If only people would figure out that Touch ID and Face ID can be authenticated before arriving at the gateline, Apple Pay would be just as fast as using a physical EMV card. D’oh.

Genuinely don't know the answer to this but would it be beneficial or negative to have an Oyster app sitting in the wallet, which is what is used to travel. Apple Pay could be on the backend of that to process payments.

Is it just another unnecessary layer or would there be a served purpose from it? AFAIK I cannot look at my journeys online when using Apple Pay on the watch as you don't need an Oyster account; that can only be done if you touch in with an Oyster card?
 
when I think even the fastest Credit / Debit Card NFC usage with or without Apply Pay is not even fast enough for Transit.

Using EMV on the Shenzhen Metro (via a UnionPay card in Apple Pay) I can hold out my phone ahead of me and walk through the gate without breaking my stride. It can be fast enough for transit.
 
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Is funny people saying it only takes seconds, when I think even the fastest Credit / Debit Card NFC usage with or without Apply Pay is not even fast enough for Transit.

There is a slight lag when using it on London Underground and other TfL services. Less than 1 second, noticeably slower than the old Oyster cards but not terrible. It's certainly quicker than the time it takes to authorise a contactless / Apple Pay transaction at a retailer.
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AFAIK I cannot look at my journeys online when using Apple Pay on the watch as you don't need an Oyster account; that can only be done if you touch in with an Oyster card?

No, you can still look at your journeys online, or in the Oyster app, when using Apple Pay / contactless. You just need to create an account with TfL and register your card. It works just the same as Oyster in that respect.
 
Genuinely don't know the answer to this but would it be beneficial or negative to have an Oyster app sitting in the wallet, which is what is used to travel. Apple Pay could be on the backend of that to process payments.

Is it just another unnecessary layer or would there be a served purpose from it? AFAIK I cannot look at my journeys online when using Apple Pay on the watch as you don't need an Oyster account; that can only be done if you touch in with an Oyster card?
The ability to add an Oyster card to the Wallet would be grand. To wit: my wife loses her Oyster on average once a year, and getting it replaced with her travelcard transferred to the new one is a bit of a pain. On the other hand, she's never lost her phone, so having Express Transit with her Oyster would be a real benefit.

Regarding your second point, you can go to the TFL Contactless website and sign up the credit card you've added to Apple Pay, which will allow you to view the journeys you've made with the physical card as well as any devices to which you've added the card with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay.
 
Planning to visit London in mid Jan for a few days, this could be handy I suppose
All the London busses and Underground already accept payment on entry/exit by contactless credit/debit cards and the like, including the cards on your phone. This is just one more variation on contactless payment.
 
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Interesting convo! Despite the occasional crabbiness. In Chicago, on the various systems like the CTA, we tap our Ventra tramsit card on the turnstile pad and are instantly admitted. It’s not tied to a credit card. We load value manually or automatically (I use Apple Cash 😉) Very convenient.

Ventra cards are coming to Apple Wallet. Without logging in to the iphone, we will simply pass the iPhone, or Apple Watch, over the transit pad. The transaction will be instant because the turnstile pad will know to use the Ventra transit card. To me, this seems magical. (Except for using my expensive device in public, which I don’t have to do when I just using the damn card.)

Caveat: the Ventra/Apple Wallet marriage has been promised to be functional “by the end of the year, and thankfully, there ain’t many more days left in this annual horriblis. But it’s not functioning yet.

Caution: presently you can just shove your iPhone across the pad, and it will use Apple Pay automatically. But u pay double the price without the Ventra.

Happy travels
 
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I can confirm that Express Transit works at Southwark and Canary Wharf stations :)
 
Seconds add up in public transit applications. You want it to move as fast as possible
Yes it makes a hell of a difference.
since coming back from Tokyo I’m freaking annoyed by not having it here as well. Especially when using the Apple Watch which is f annoying when you get a notification just when you are summoning your card.
 
I'd love to see this work with Sound Transit here in the Pacific Northwest - especially if I could put my UW U-Pass on it.

I get tired of having to keep pulling my card out of my wallet, over and over, to show the fare enforcement folks. I've had the NFC on one card fail already, likely due to the repeated small flexes which happen every time I have to take my card out of my wallet.

You’re still going to have to pull out your phone and get NFC to work for them when they need to see proof of ticket. And that’ll be more of a hassle than pulling a card.
 
Oh that would be a game changer. Is that confirmed?

From Apple's website:

Screenshot 2019-11-26 at 18.08.04.png
 
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In Chicago, on the various systems like the CTA, we tap our Ventra tramsit card on the turnstile pad and are instantly admitted. It’s not tied to a credit card.

The Ventra system was one of the world's first contactless card systems, in part because it was completely new. The original Ventra cards were nothing more than prepaid Mastercards, you could actually use them as a debit card in stores.

Caution: presently you can just shove your iPhone across the pad, and it will use Apple Pay automatically. But u pay double the price without the Ventra.

You can link a contactless card to your Ventra account by using the contactless card to purchase travel, and I think any passes in your account will then be applied to travel with that card.
 
All the London busses and Underground already accept payment on entry/exit by contactless credit/debit cards and the like, including the cards on your phone. This is just one more variation on contactless payment.
Thanks for the info!
 
The Ventra system was one of the world's first contactless card systems, in part because it was completely new.

According to Wikipedia, the EMV-based Ventra launched in 2013. However, it's predecessor, the "Chicago Card" (MiFARE based?) was indeed among the earliest contactless fare payment cards, launching in 1997 - the same year as Hong Kong's Octopus.
 
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Interesting convo! Despite the occasional crabbiness. In Chicago, on the various systems like the CTA, we tap our Ventra tramsit card on the turnstile pad and are instantly admitted. It’s not tied to a credit card. We load value manually or automatically (I use Apple Cash 😉) Very convenient.

Ventra cards are coming to Apple Wallet. Without logging in to the iphone, we will simply pass the iPhone, or Apple Watch, over the transit pad. The transaction will be instant because the turnstile pad will know to use the Ventra transit card. To me, this seems magical. (Except for using my expensive device in public, which I don’t have to do when I just using the damn card.)

Caveat: the Ventra/Apple Wallet marriage has been promised to be functional “by the end of the year, and thankfully, there ain’t many more days left in this annual horriblis. But it’s not functioning yet.

Caution: presently you can just shove your iPhone across the pad, and it will use Apple Pay automatically. But u pay double the price without the Ventra.

Happy travels

thanks for the report on what's happening in the chicago area. appreciated it.

its a rapidly evolving rollout.

i found this apple doc useful to understand it a bit more.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207958
 
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Is funny people saying it only takes seconds, when I think even the fastest Credit / Debit Card NFC usage with or without Apply Pay is not even fast enough for Transit.

People should go to Japan and tryout Felica, where the whole thing takes 100ms. ( Which is still considered not as good by some, the best case it could go as low as 50ms )

When you are in a Transit that carries as many people as the Tokyo Metro. Every ms count.

Meanwhile the Octopus Card in Hong Kong ( Similar to Oyster Card in London ) were suppose to launch before the end of the year. Although I guess we have much more important issues and things to do and Octopus on Apple Pay is not of any importance right now.

octopus/apple pay are definitely only a 6th demand.
hang in there !
 
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According to Wikipedia, the EMV-based Ventra launched in 2013. However, it's predecessor, the "Chicago Card" (MiFARE based?) was indeed among the earliest contactless fare payment cards, launching in 1997 - the same year as Hong Kong's Octopus.

As I said, Ventra completely was new. It was a forklift upgrade of Chicago Card and Metra passes and had no backwards compatibility.
 
Ummm, the London buses are not part of the London Underground, the London buses are part of the TfL (and Underground is also part of TfL) so if you are going by that macrumor reader, the headline here is incorrect.

And I used TfL buses (140, 114) and tube (met line and Bakerloo line) today and express transit is not working on those.
How random - I also use the 140 and 114 bus regularly!
 
You people who live in London, Portland, Chicago, NYC are lucky. Here in Phoenix, AZ, you have to download an app, now granted the app has Apple Pay in it, and flash this to the inspection people on the train or to the bus driver. I guess being able to still pay with a phone AND use Apple Pay for this is a good thing but still Valley Metro; I want what London and soon the rest of the US/Europe/Asia has.

no express transit mode here. I got news they are getting a new system similar to London, but not until 2021-2023. I’m impatient. having to hunt for the app while running for a bus is terrible. It also crashes if you’re on the phone. Bus drivers say there a secret feature to prevent people from using the phone while trying to board a bus, LOL!

I’m typing this on a train right now, how fitting.

edit: the thing in the middle moves to prevent screenshots. They use automatic passenger counters on trains and buses to validate how many people are actually on the train/bus.
 

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You’re still going to have to pull out your phone and get NFC to work for them when they need to see proof of ticket. And that’ll be more of a hassle than pulling a card.
I used the Orca card system. It isn’t bad but I like the option to use a phone for people who choose to thin wallet like myself.
 
I am familiar with Octopus. Asian countries are different from the West because of the lower penetration of bank accounts and cards, due to lower incomes but also culture. Asia tends to be cash-heavy far beyond the West.

Japan in particular has western levels of banking and credit cards, but nobody actually uses electronic payments, hence relatively high use of stored value systems. Basically, electronic payments were forced upon them by transit, so it gets used for small-value transactions. This is part of the "Galápagos syndrome" of Japan, they do things differently due to culture so their systems are not necessarily exportable.

The opposite would be Singapore, which does have high penetration of contactless credit/debit for all kinds of transactions, and now has contactless transit. In Singapore, you use full EMV contactless where the Japanese use their IC cards.

Basically, the other poster doesn't understand that Japan has a problem: that Japanese refuse to use card payments even though their banking system is perfectly fine for this, and their invented solution: use of transit cards to stand in as a low-value debit card. And that problem doesn't apply to most Western countries who use cards just fine, and therefore there is no need to adopt a stored-value solution here.

We understand Japan's issues. But London has issues that make your "pre-paid debit cards can make Oyster redundant" factually untrue.

Oyster cards are still very much still needed in Apple Wallet, for sure.

Unemployed get their travel cards within them, for example, given to them directly rather than cash value. They're not going to be using prepaid debit cards just for this.

And huge amount of others use travel cards within Oyster card too, often paid for by employers, or through schemes: pre paid debit cards don't solve these issues.

So saying they will in ALL circumstances is just not true.

Oh, and then there's the Freedom Pass, that people like my mother who's retired gets; they're going to need an Oyster-like card to access TfL services within Apple Wallet too. Debit cards don't solve for that either.
 
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