Again, you're not being specific so I don't know what you're talking about, and now we're running in circles.
View attachment 879981
You need to quote the exact post you're talking about because there's multiple threads going on at the same time. As the screenshot shows you're talking about the efficiencies of contactless-only transit systems.
Now you're bringing in a post half a day ago about Oyster being private. In reply to that, I clearly stated that your assertion that Oyster being private has nothing to do with them not implementing contactless passes since the exact same vendor that Oyster uses, Cubic, has done so on a PPP basis with Ventra. This was the same argument made by
@dontwalkhand
I quoted the exact post was talking about at the time. You can see in the screenshot in my previous reply to you, that I had done so. I was not talking to you at all. Expanding the previous screenshot thusly:
I brought this post in because, well, that's when you for whatever reason - and I see now from your provision of a screenshot that it's not an inability due to an app etc. to see quoted posts, clearly just a fundamental inability to read usernames and follow multiple arguments - decided that my reply to dontwalkhand was a reply to you.
But anyway, yes this is very circular because what you don't seem to understand is that Oyster being private has
everything to do with them not implementing contactless. Being a private company they have no obligations to the citizens of London and won't serve niche markets "just because", unless there's a real business case for it. The fact that a digital oyster card hasn't happened yet, suggests that despite what people are saying there is in fact no business case to support it.
The differences between Oyster and Ventra are principally based around Oyster being old and Ventra being new. The contract to maintain an existing system would be worlds apart from a contract to develop a new system, and provide no impetus for change unless tfl asked and paid for it - which they're unlikely to do mid-contract. The most likely place to force change is at the tendering process for the next contract, when it can be imposed as a requirement for bidding etc.
To make crystal clear, Cubic could NOT do the same things they did in London as they have with Ventra, because there is already an existing EMV/open loop contactless solution, which was developed by MasterCard with TfL. The two - contactless and Oyster - work side by side. One works digitally while one does not. One doesn't work with season tickets, while the other does. But there is no impetus for either to become the other. And Cubic
especially could not and would not change the way Oyster works to become like Ventra, since it would need to piggy back on the existing solution from Mastercard. This would essentially result in them shutting the door on that income stream.
As soon as Oyster becomes little more than a prepaid mastercard then Oyster is no longer oyster, it's just one of a number of cards that work in someone else's system. Citymapper is already working in partnership with mastercard on creating weekly passes that don't use oyster. It works in Apple Pay and uses EMV.
https://citymapper.com/pass#our-passes
It's not hard to imagine this being extended to monthly or annual passes in the future. The processing is likely done in the backend though, and so the technology may not easily be transferable to enable a situation as described for Ventra above "passes (i.e. Travelcards) are associated to contactless cards. Basically you purchase a pass with a contactless card, it gets automatically tied to it. You can also change things around online." I also question whether any card issuer would ever be in favour of that, since they currently take a small cut of journey costs as a processing fee and being able to load passes onto cards might lead to a processing model where they couldn't do that. Again - private businesses don't generally
have to do things and can't generally be made to - only made not to.
Android solved this issue years ago, one only has to wake the screen without unlocking to enable contactless payment. I have the phone in a pouch and don't even have to remove from there, just press power button and tap anywhere, even on the Tube. I started using my phone for payment when they enabled this feature, until then it was easier to use my card.
