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Apple PDA Rumors
- Thread starter arn
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Windows CE...Apple OSX CE??
Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, but if Apple did construct a pda or upscale iPod, the operating system would not be Jaguar, would it? Rather wouldn't it be miniaturized OS for a miniature device?
To the point: is it possible that Apple could have allocated the software engineers to develop such a product at this time, when they have got their hands full with Jaguar?
Sorry if I missed it in an earlier post, but if Apple did construct a pda or upscale iPod, the operating system would not be Jaguar, would it? Rather wouldn't it be miniaturized OS for a miniature device?
To the point: is it possible that Apple could have allocated the software engineers to develop such a product at this time, when they have got their hands full with Jaguar?
drastik
macrumors 6502a
sjs has a good point. Unless the PDa would use some type of revamped Newton OS. Of course, for all we know, they could have been developing right along with OSX, or their some miracle that gets a processor cool enough and hard drive small enough to run real x on a tablet device.
evildead
macrumors 65816
I'm with Arn
I know that the rumor has been over done. But I know that if Apple came out with a PDA I would grab one up right away. There is demand for such a Apple device, as seen by the amount of talk.
I have been looking at geting the Sharp Zarus for some time and the only thing that has stoped me has been the lack of OS X suport. OS X suport has been slated but not yet. I need a LINUX/UNIX based PDA that I can use as a Terminal and talk to big Servers via the Console/serial port. I think I can do it with the Zarus but I wont buy it untill it has OS X support. If apple came out with a Slim OSX running PDA with a USB port on it and a USB to Serial cable, and a terminal app, I would grab it right up. I hope I dont buy the Zarus and then apple comes out with one.
-evildead
I know that the rumor has been over done. But I know that if Apple came out with a PDA I would grab one up right away. There is demand for such a Apple device, as seen by the amount of talk.
I have been looking at geting the Sharp Zarus for some time and the only thing that has stoped me has been the lack of OS X suport. OS X suport has been slated but not yet. I need a LINUX/UNIX based PDA that I can use as a Terminal and talk to big Servers via the Console/serial port. I think I can do it with the Zarus but I wont buy it untill it has OS X support. If apple came out with a Slim OSX running PDA with a USB port on it and a USB to Serial cable, and a terminal app, I would grab it right up. I hope I dont buy the Zarus and then apple comes out with one.
-evildead
Startup?
Maybe its just me... I didn't see anyone else mention it... but as much as I'd love to see a PDA running OSX or at least an Apple branded one that will work well with my Mac, I don't think you'll be catching me buying one if I have to wait almost 2 minutes for the darn thing to start up... Doesn't sound to tempting when the point is to have quick info right at your fingertips...
Oh yeah, hey all!
Brando
Maybe its just me... I didn't see anyone else mention it... but as much as I'd love to see a PDA running OSX or at least an Apple branded one that will work well with my Mac, I don't think you'll be catching me buying one if I have to wait almost 2 minutes for the darn thing to start up... Doesn't sound to tempting when the point is to have quick info right at your fingertips...
Oh yeah, hey all!
Brando
LONG LIVE FLASH
Ok, I have returned. The only problem with the comment above is that you can run OS X as any other Linux operating system for that matter, off of a Flash Card. A friend of mine is putting a linux box in his car, as a DVD player, wifi internet connection and the media hub of his car, sorry its not a Apple box, but still, he plans on running it off of flash, which is fesiable, giving the fact that you don't have to wait for it to start up, you just wait for the drive to power on.
Ok, I have returned. The only problem with the comment above is that you can run OS X as any other Linux operating system for that matter, off of a Flash Card. A friend of mine is putting a linux box in his car, as a DVD player, wifi internet connection and the media hub of his car, sorry its not a Apple box, but still, he plans on running it off of flash, which is fesiable, giving the fact that you don't have to wait for it to start up, you just wait for the drive to power on.
brando hit it on the head... pda's have short battery lives... granted the iPod has 10hrs - but it doesnt do a whole lot. now, something that takes a few mins to boot up won't cut it. it has to be instant-on. or nearly.
READ THE POSTS
I do believe that none of you read the latest posts, I have answered that one before, dont make me explain it again..
I do believe that none of you read the latest posts, I have answered that one before, dont make me explain it again..
to clarify about "OSX CE"
I am saying that pda's don't use full blown operating systems (at least they haven't up until now). For example, a pocket pc doesn't use Windows...it uses Windows CE.
So what I was asking is: is it possible that Apple software engineers have had the free time to develop such an OS?
Seems doubtful...but Apple love to surprise us.
BTW, the more people on this forum are certain that Apple would "never do a pda" the more certain I become that they will.
But surely it will look and act like nothing that has gone before.
I am saying that pda's don't use full blown operating systems (at least they haven't up until now). For example, a pocket pc doesn't use Windows...it uses Windows CE.
So what I was asking is: is it possible that Apple software engineers have had the free time to develop such an OS?
Seems doubtful...but Apple love to surprise us.
BTW, the more people on this forum are certain that Apple would "never do a pda" the more certain I become that they will.
But surely it will look and act like nothing that has gone before.
Fake?
so what's the verdict? Is the video fake or what? If so, how was it done? I don't think that the 16 bit vs 8 bit color idea is very valid because a) The amount of colors OS X needs could have been lowered so it looks ok on an 8-bit display b) the display very well could have been replaced...who knows what kind of hacking job was done to the thing. The same goes for the processor. Obviously, the pokey processor that comes standard in the IIIc could never run even a slimmed down version of OS X, so maybe the processor was swapped out too? Maybe the Palm IIIc was only used as the bare bones for this beast?
Or, if it's fake, please tell me convincingly why. I can't figure it out myself yet.
-Cameron
so what's the verdict? Is the video fake or what? If so, how was it done? I don't think that the 16 bit vs 8 bit color idea is very valid because a) The amount of colors OS X needs could have been lowered so it looks ok on an 8-bit display b) the display very well could have been replaced...who knows what kind of hacking job was done to the thing. The same goes for the processor. Obviously, the pokey processor that comes standard in the IIIc could never run even a slimmed down version of OS X, so maybe the processor was swapped out too? Maybe the Palm IIIc was only used as the bare bones for this beast?
Or, if it's fake, please tell me convincingly why. I can't figure it out myself yet.
-Cameron
It sure is fake, but well done! The resolution of the screen is very low, and the color depth as well; don't let you fool by the idea that it is the mp4 compression what you see. Certain details are very sharp on the video, but not the screen stuff. What you see is the PowerMac on the background linked somehow to the display and touchscreen of an old PDA.
You can see the PowerMac with a lcd monitor on part of the video. And the person who is showing it is very precise to not have us a look at the cable on the bottom of the system. Why is the system only used at the side of the table? Why isn't it moved really through the room? The cable runs from the bottom to the desktop, maybe he configured it as a second external monitor with custom settings.
The harddrive is not the drive the system is running of, but it is spinning (powered) as you can see by the clunky movements in the beginning of the first movie. Still strange the "about this mac" gives so few memory, but that could be a fake application. Afterall there is also no big blue X on that window...
You can see the PowerMac with a lcd monitor on part of the video. And the person who is showing it is very precise to not have us a look at the cable on the bottom of the system. Why is the system only used at the side of the table? Why isn't it moved really through the room? The cable runs from the bottom to the desktop, maybe he configured it as a second external monitor with custom settings.
The harddrive is not the drive the system is running of, but it is spinning (powered) as you can see by the clunky movements in the beginning of the first movie. Still strange the "about this mac" gives so few memory, but that could be a fake application. Afterall there is also no big blue X on that window...
Video Authenticity
Looks to me like the hard drive is somehow taped or otherwise secured with plastic to the PIIIC- hardly the work of a skilled apple technician, even if the technology was in its earliest stages.
-Ep.
Looks to me like the hard drive is somehow taped or otherwise secured with plastic to the PIIIC- hardly the work of a skilled apple technician, even if the technology was in its earliest stages.
-Ep.
damon
As Seen on TV (apple.com/switch)
Re: Switchers and PDA
I think this is an excellent point. Ten years ago, at the time a college UNIX user, I bought the Newton to get my life under control. The form-factor was brilliant and the OS un-toppable. Then I racked up a bunch of credit card debt and had to sell the thing for cash. Oh well.
That said, I don't think this is a great market for Apple to get into if they aren't planning on an OS that is a) compatible with the Newton software that's still floating around out there, b) compatible with the Palm software. There's too much of an existing market to jump into with a new, competing OS. Not that it would be impossible, just not terribly practical.
Someone brought up Stock price earlier and I want to reply to that. Price is no longer an accurate bellweather for product success. Palm has made some mistakes in the management ranks, yet still commands the lion's share of the market space (acknowledged, it's shrinking), even though their stock is through the floor. Today, companies leverage their share value through press and confidence building exercises for the public. It's Jobs' ability to rattle the crowd that gets people investing; whether the individual investors are Mac owners/users is practically irrelevant. Let's talk about the product by it's own merits, rather than some potentially fraudulent video/still floating around the net.
All that said, I'd STILL look seriously at it if they tossed one out there. 😉
I think this is an excellent point. Ten years ago, at the time a college UNIX user, I bought the Newton to get my life under control. The form-factor was brilliant and the OS un-toppable. Then I racked up a bunch of credit card debt and had to sell the thing for cash. Oh well.
That said, I don't think this is a great market for Apple to get into if they aren't planning on an OS that is a) compatible with the Newton software that's still floating around out there, b) compatible with the Palm software. There's too much of an existing market to jump into with a new, competing OS. Not that it would be impossible, just not terribly practical.
Someone brought up Stock price earlier and I want to reply to that. Price is no longer an accurate bellweather for product success. Palm has made some mistakes in the management ranks, yet still commands the lion's share of the market space (acknowledged, it's shrinking), even though their stock is through the floor. Today, companies leverage their share value through press and confidence building exercises for the public. It's Jobs' ability to rattle the crowd that gets people investing; whether the individual investors are Mac owners/users is practically irrelevant. Let's talk about the product by it's own merits, rather than some potentially fraudulent video/still floating around the net.
All that said, I'd STILL look seriously at it if they tossed one out there. 😉
Missing the point...
Those of you who keep giving the mantra that the PDA market is dead, and that Apple wouldn't have any chance in making gains in PDA market share are missing the point of an Apple Branded PDA entirely...
A PDA should not be seen as some standalone part of Apple computer that needs to find it's own way...PDA computing, next to the actual computer itself, is a vital piece of the digital lifestyle. As it currently stands, the Apple platform offers no companionship to those of us who need ultra-portable computing solutions. All of these great things that Apple develops get left in the office or the briefcase when we are on the go.
The question is not whether, on it's own, an Apple PDA would convert the masses to Apple...the point is that an Apple PDA would fill a much needed gap in the digital lifestyle of the existing Apple user base. More and more, a PDA is an expected extension of the desktop experience.
And, for those of you who think that PDA market holds no future...why are all of the PC manufacturers working harder and harder at it? Almost all of them have recently released new models, or are announcing future models. PocketPC is building itself up as a natural extension to Windows.
Apple ignores the ultra-portable market to its own detriment.
Those of you who keep giving the mantra that the PDA market is dead, and that Apple wouldn't have any chance in making gains in PDA market share are missing the point of an Apple Branded PDA entirely...
A PDA should not be seen as some standalone part of Apple computer that needs to find it's own way...PDA computing, next to the actual computer itself, is a vital piece of the digital lifestyle. As it currently stands, the Apple platform offers no companionship to those of us who need ultra-portable computing solutions. All of these great things that Apple develops get left in the office or the briefcase when we are on the go.
The question is not whether, on it's own, an Apple PDA would convert the masses to Apple...the point is that an Apple PDA would fill a much needed gap in the digital lifestyle of the existing Apple user base. More and more, a PDA is an expected extension of the desktop experience.
And, for those of you who think that PDA market holds no future...why are all of the PC manufacturers working harder and harder at it? Almost all of them have recently released new models, or are announcing future models. PocketPC is building itself up as a natural extension to Windows.
Apple ignores the ultra-portable market to its own detriment.
Re: Stock Price
You may not feel stock price is important but the shareholders certainly will. If they feel that Apple is pursuing a path that is detrimental to their investment they will pull out.
You may not feel stock price is important but the shareholders certainly will. If they feel that Apple is pursuing a path that is detrimental to their investment they will pull out.
OSX
I understand that it wouldn't be running full-blown OSX like Windows for PocketPC isn't full-blown windows... I'm just going on what I saw in that video... and what I saw was an almost 2-minute boot for any sort of usable screen to come up and that would not be acceptable for a PDA... I'd go buy a DayRunner or something before I started dealing with that...
Brando
I understand that it wouldn't be running full-blown OSX like Windows for PocketPC isn't full-blown windows... I'm just going on what I saw in that video... and what I saw was an almost 2-minute boot for any sort of usable screen to come up and that would not be acceptable for a PDA... I'd go buy a DayRunner or something before I started dealing with that...
Brando
why this is fake
IMHO, this is a fake, and here is why I think so:
the video is in two segments. The Palm IIIc only has 8MB RAM, and this video would have taken more than 8MB ram to play, so the author had to cut his hoax into two segments to avoid showing him loading the second video from his G4.
near the end of the second video, he drags a window, but the dragging motion does not follow his pen. I think it actually jumps ahead sometimes. It is like this with other things as well. Clicks are registered soomer sometimes and later other times.
we never get a clear shot of the bottom of the unit where the business end of the HD connects to the business end of the Palm. I doubt it even does. If this were my hack, it would be one of the main things I would show off instead of twiddling my thumbs waiting for it to start up.
on startup, the screen says "loading L2 Cache". does the Palm IIIc even have L2 cache? Granted, a hacked version of Mac OS X may say it is doing something when it really isn't, but I thought it was worth pointing out.
On the other hand, I have heard of Mac OS X being compiled for 68K processors for experimental purposes, and isn't this what the Palm IIIc has?
There is no way you can differentiate between 256 colors and thousands of colors from this video. In fact, the .jpg that was posted looks like it is in fact running in 256 colors.
Well, I still think it is a fake, but with a little stronger evidence (and better lighting), I would be willing to retract my statement.
IMHO, this is a fake, and here is why I think so:
the video is in two segments. The Palm IIIc only has 8MB RAM, and this video would have taken more than 8MB ram to play, so the author had to cut his hoax into two segments to avoid showing him loading the second video from his G4.
near the end of the second video, he drags a window, but the dragging motion does not follow his pen. I think it actually jumps ahead sometimes. It is like this with other things as well. Clicks are registered soomer sometimes and later other times.
we never get a clear shot of the bottom of the unit where the business end of the HD connects to the business end of the Palm. I doubt it even does. If this were my hack, it would be one of the main things I would show off instead of twiddling my thumbs waiting for it to start up.
on startup, the screen says "loading L2 Cache". does the Palm IIIc even have L2 cache? Granted, a hacked version of Mac OS X may say it is doing something when it really isn't, but I thought it was worth pointing out.
On the other hand, I have heard of Mac OS X being compiled for 68K processors for experimental purposes, and isn't this what the Palm IIIc has?
There is no way you can differentiate between 256 colors and thousands of colors from this video. In fact, the .jpg that was posted looks like it is in fact running in 256 colors.
Well, I still think it is a fake, but with a little stronger evidence (and better lighting), I would be willing to retract my statement.
damon
As Seen on TV (apple.com/switch)
Re: Re: Stock Price
On the contrary: Stock price is critical. What I said was, stock price is no longer a bell weather for product success. I mean, when determining whether a company should take a product to market, what's the potential of that product to meet the needs of the potential consumer base. If an Apple branded PDA has the potential to rally the market in a new direction, shareholders -- and stakeholders -- will see it, whether or not they are already consumers or suppliers of Apple products. That is the power to affect positive change. The market itself is becoming a more and more distant relative of product lines.
On the contrary: Stock price is critical. What I said was, stock price is no longer a bell weather for product success. I mean, when determining whether a company should take a product to market, what's the potential of that product to meet the needs of the potential consumer base. If an Apple branded PDA has the potential to rally the market in a new direction, shareholders -- and stakeholders -- will see it, whether or not they are already consumers or suppliers of Apple products. That is the power to affect positive change. The market itself is becoming a more and more distant relative of product lines.
it still stands...
my challenge still stands to those who think it is so easy to make a fake video like this.😱
my challenge still stands to those who think it is so easy to make a fake video like this.😱
Saludos everyone!
I never thought I would make my debut on this forum on a PDA string!!!
I cherish this site a lot (startup page) and was always waiting for one of those serious topics to jump in. So when I saw the rumor topic yesterday, I said "oh no, not again". Today it was still on first place, so I said "o.k. let´s have some laughs, I know what´s comming up". I deffinitely LAUGHED my a$$ off 😀, but was amazed how this thread evolved through 4 pages (only skimmed the last two) on "the touchy subject" without any flamewars and with many witty and smart posts.
To make it short: this is a community I want to be in!
You guys made my day (compliment meant seriously).
Eye u deserve a zen masters degree for your stoic reticence (almost 100 posts).
Arn THANX for your great work, and also for having the courage to post the
"oops, I did it again" thread.
shaZAMM
I never thought I would make my debut on this forum on a PDA string!!!
I cherish this site a lot (startup page) and was always waiting for one of those serious topics to jump in. So when I saw the rumor topic yesterday, I said "oh no, not again". Today it was still on first place, so I said "o.k. let´s have some laughs, I know what´s comming up". I deffinitely LAUGHED my a$$ off 😀, but was amazed how this thread evolved through 4 pages (only skimmed the last two) on "the touchy subject" without any flamewars and with many witty and smart posts.
To make it short: this is a community I want to be in!
You guys made my day (compliment meant seriously).
Eye u deserve a zen masters degree for your stoic reticence (almost 100 posts).
Arn THANX for your great work, and also for having the courage to post the
"oops, I did it again" thread.
shaZAMM
Re: it still stands...
I dont think that anybody has said it was _so_ easy...i know I could do this for sure if a had a few days (unfortunately I am employed right now)...for those familiar video compositing and with access to the equipent this is not very complicated just time consuming...sorry
I dont think that anybody has said it was _so_ easy...i know I could do this for sure if a had a few days (unfortunately I am employed right now)...for those familiar video compositing and with access to the equipent this is not very complicated just time consuming...sorry
Feel free to flame this but I'll play a form of devil's advocate here. 😉
Has anyone even considered the fact that this is merely something hacked together that is just using the Palm case? I've seen alot of posts here from folks automatically thinking it's a fake because that's a Palm case and the hardware couldn't support it. Well you're right. It's not uncommon though for engineers to have their own pet projects on the side where they hack things together to create their own little toys.
I'm also seeing alot of posts trying to read alot into things to make an attempt to prove that this is a fake. Things like they must be using a an app to fake the memory. C'mon. You have nothing to base that on. In actuality I've yet to see anyone here point anything out that seriously says that this is a fake or not. Now I doubt that it's an Apple product that will be released(fake or not) and I doubt that it's really something that Apple endorsed the creation of. Is it something that an engineer might have hacked together? Very possible but who really knows.
Think about it. Honestly I don't care one way or another if this is real as an Apple product because I think the interface leaves much to be desired. It goes against everything people claim to be a good ui for a handheld. I do care though if someone really did hack this together on their own. I want details if it's real. 🙂
Has anyone even considered the fact that this is merely something hacked together that is just using the Palm case? I've seen alot of posts here from folks automatically thinking it's a fake because that's a Palm case and the hardware couldn't support it. Well you're right. It's not uncommon though for engineers to have their own pet projects on the side where they hack things together to create their own little toys.
I'm also seeing alot of posts trying to read alot into things to make an attempt to prove that this is a fake. Things like they must be using a an app to fake the memory. C'mon. You have nothing to base that on. In actuality I've yet to see anyone here point anything out that seriously says that this is a fake or not. Now I doubt that it's an Apple product that will be released(fake or not) and I doubt that it's really something that Apple endorsed the creation of. Is it something that an engineer might have hacked together? Very possible but who really knows.
Think about it. Honestly I don't care one way or another if this is real as an Apple product because I think the interface leaves much to be desired. It goes against everything people claim to be a good ui for a handheld. I do care though if someone really did hack this together on their own. I want details if it's real. 🙂
ibjoshua
macrumors 6502a
Re: Apple PDA Rumors
I'm constantly amazed at the ability of this forum to get off point.
arn posted a perfectly valid story and most of you went off on some wild goose chase after some fake video.
(Every download I do costs me money and I'm not wasting my time and money looking at these videos after the iWalk ones)
weird. i was hoping to find some comments/verifications but alas.
I would suggest to arn that the next time he starts one of these threads he asks the no one hijacks it with links to poxy videos.
josh
I'm constantly amazed at the ability of this forum to get off point.
arn posted a perfectly valid story and most of you went off on some wild goose chase after some fake video.
(Every download I do costs me money and I'm not wasting my time and money looking at these videos after the iWalk ones)
weird. i was hoping to find some comments/verifications but alas.
I would suggest to arn that the next time he starts one of these threads he asks the no one hijacks it with links to poxy videos.
josh
i definately think its possible.. i doubt it though 😀 ... something like that would be real hard to do...
and on top of it all i think the hard drive taped to the device is one of the weirdest things about it... perhaps if it was a device just hacked together it could support the drive... but it looks pretty weird -- as if the whole thing might be a fake..