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lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,975
998
But could you tell why the new third generation pencil (supposedly) won‘t work with the same iPad? ;)

I mean, charging the thing shouldn’t be a problem, given that it’s got USB-C. If I had 7th gen Lightning iPad (and wanted to buy an Apple-branded pencil) I‘d still get the new USB-C pencil over the old Lightning one. Seems more future-proof to work with future iPads.

It seems to me that the lightning to usb-c cables currently available probably aren’t 2-way (i.e. they only transfer charge from the usb-c end to lightning end but not the other way, and if you hook up the lightning end to the ipad and the usb-c end to the pencil, the pencil likely wouldn’t charge).
 
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AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,277
2,607
That’s probably the reason why you would be unable to charge it from an iPad.
I was thinking of charging with a separate USB-C power adapter though.
 

lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,975
998
That’s probably the reason why you would be unable to charge it from an iPad.
I was thinking of charging with a separate USB-C power adapter though.

The thing is that, besides charging, ipads with a lightning port also use the port to pair the 1st gen pencil. How would you pair the usb-c pencil to one of those ipads?
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,277
2,607
The thing is that, besides charging, ipads with a lightning port also use the port to pair the 1st gen pencil. How would you pair the usb-c pencil to one of those ipads?
Pairing just is not needed for 2018 and later iPads (on iOS 12.2 or above). Third-party styluses (such as the Logitech Crayon) have been working with palm rejection and tilting since then, without requiring (or being able) to pair.

Besides, Bluetooth pairing does not require a cable - though admittedly manual pairing is a bit inelegant and would lack the typical Apple simplicity of use. Then again, their current “solution“ of pairing a Lightning stylus with USB-C equipped iPads is anything but „elegant“.

I don’t know if Apple uses Bluetooth for transmission of pressure sensitivity data. Possibly - but the recently released 3rd gen Pencil lacks that anyway.
 
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lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,975
998
Pairing just is not needed for 2018 and later iPads (on iOS 12.2 or above). Third-party styluses (such as the Logitech Crayon) have been working with palm rejection and tilting since then, without requiring (or being able) to pair.

Besides, Bluetooth pairing does not require a cable - though admittedly manual pairing is a bit inelegant and would lack the typical Apple simplicity of use. Then again, their current “solution“ of pairing a Lightning stylus with USB-C equipped iPads is anything but „elegant“.

I don’t know if Apple uses Bluetooth for transmission of pressure sensitivity data. Possibly - but the recently released 3rd gen Pencil lacks that anyway.

Pairing isn’t an issue for the 2018 and later ipad pros and airs. It is an issue, however, for the budget 2022 10th gen ipad, which doesn’t support magnetic pairing and charging. And it is an issue for the 9th gen ipad released in 2021 still with a lightning port and still sold by apple.

As for the “elegant” solution of pairing usb-c ipads with a lightning stylus, that only applied to a single model: the 10th gen budget ipad; all other usb-c ipads have always been fully compatible with the 2nd gen pencil. And apple is already addressing that problem for the ipad 10 with the new usb-c pencil.

Finally, apple does use BT for wireless connectivity between the pencil and the ipad. They may have made pairing much simpler, but it’s still BT.
 

AppliedMicro

macrumors 68020
Aug 17, 2008
2,277
2,607
Again, there’s no need to pair.
Pairing is a non-issue for any stylus (at least as long as it doesn’t have pressure sensitivity).

I have the Goojodoq GD13 pencil which can attach magnetically and charge contactlessly on my 5th gen iPad Air. The same pencil works with my 5th gen (Lightning) iPad mini. With tilting and palm rejection but without pairing.

I also have a Logitech Crayon that has a female Lightning port to charge. There is no cable to physically connect it to an iPad. And has no button for Bluetooth pairing either. It literally cannot pair with iPads, and it doesn’t need to, as Logitech states on their website: „No software downloads or pairing required“. Where they also advertise it as compatible „for all iPad models (2018 and later)“, including and explicitly listing the 9th gen „budget“ iPad. And quoting from their FAQ: „Can I use Crayon on multiple iPads? Answer: „You can go from writing on one iPad (iPad Pro, iPad Air, iPad mini & iPad - 2018 models and later) straight to writing on another iPad (iPad Pro, iPad Air, iPad mini & iPad - 2018 models and later) with no pairing steps needed“.

👉🏻
2018 and later iPads really do not require pairing to support (battery-powered) styluses, including palm rejection and tilting.

Bluetooth pairing seems to be required only to transmit battery charge status and (possibly?) pressure sensor data (which, again, the 3rd-gen USB-C Apple Pencil does not provide).

PS: For older iPads however, I believe I remember that they indeed required Bluetooth pairing for at least the 1st gen Apple Pencil to work properly with palm rejection.
 
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DJCHOKO504

macrumors newbie
Nov 16, 2023
1
0
Any sane human would know any other Apple pencil that is not the Gen 2 is a very bad a idea. I'm guessing most of us who use the iPad for illustration, edition of any type of graphics, productivity, etc... Why would anyone want to charge their pencil with a cable? the price difference really is not that huge, if anyone just wants to touch their iPad maybe just don't get a pencil... It's crazy getting this very powerful and expensive tablet to use it with something that won't allow you to use every existing feature.
 

lartola

macrumors 68000
Feb 10, 2017
1,975
998
Any sane human would know any other Apple pencil that is not the Gen 2 is a very bad a idea. I'm guessing most of us who use the iPad for illustration, edition of any type of graphics, productivity, etc... Why would anyone want to charge their pencil with a cable? the price difference really is not that huge, if anyone just wants to touch their iPad maybe just don't get a pencil... It's crazy getting this very powerful and expensive tablet to use it with something that won't allow you to use every existing feature.

The new usb-c pencil is basically aimed at users of the 10th gen ipad, which is not compatible with the gen 2. For them, it’s better to use a pencil that already comes with usb-c than to use the 1st gen with lightning + an adapter. It’s the only case where the new usb-c pencil is an improvement over the previously existing option.
 

baryon

macrumors 68040
Oct 3, 2009
3,881
2,941
I really don't understand why older Apple Pencils can't work on new iPads, or why new Apple Pencils can't work with old iPads. Is the technology so crazy different in each one that they just couldn't figure out a way to make these nearly identical devices compatible with each other? Or is it just a matter of a software flag that bans you from using it just because?

Hell even Wacom doesn't do this.
 

MNWildFan

macrumors regular
Jun 26, 2013
219
189
Minnesota, USA
It's absolutely ludicrious how what used to be 1 pencil has now ballooned to 4

Absolutely no reason why at least the 1st one should be sold, much less gen 2

Gen 2 doesn't even work with the new iPad Airs released today, but yet the gen 2.5 one in the one just known as Apple Pencil (USB-C) does

WHY APPLE????

They should have removed the 1st gen pencil yesterday, and they may as well merge the 2nd gen and 2.5/USB-C into one
 
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jwdsail

macrumors 6502a
Mar 3, 2004
861
950


Apple now offers four different Apple Pencil models at $79, $99, and $129 price points, each with different feature sets and compatibility. Our guide helps you decide which Apple Pencil is best for you.

Apple-Pencil-Buyers-Guide-Graphic-ft-Pro.jpg

Which Apple Pencil you should buy is firstly determined by which iPad model you have. Some iPad models are only compatible with one kind of Apple Pencil, while others are compatible with two. If your iPad model only supports one kind of Apple Pencil, your buying decision is straightforward. Use the table below to find out which Apple Pencil models your iPad supports:

Apple Pencil (first-generation, 2015)Apple Pencil (second-generation, 2018)Apple Pencil (USB-C, 2023)Apple Pencil Pro (2024)
iPad Pro 12.9-inch (first- and second-generation)iPad Pro 12.9-inch (third-, fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-generation)iPad Pro 12.9-inch (third-, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-, and seventh- generation)iPad Pro 13-inch (seventh-generation)
iPad Pro 9.7-inch and 10.5-inchiPad Pro 11-inch (first-, second-, third-, and fourth-generation)iPad Pro 11-inch (first-, second-, third-, fourth-, and fifth-generation)iPad Pro 11-inch (fifth-generation)
iPad Air (third-generation)iPad Air (fourth- and fifth-generation)iPad Air (fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-generation)iPad Air (sixth-generation)
iPad mini (fifth-generation)iPad mini (sixth-generation)iPad mini (sixth-generation)
iPad (sixth-, seventh-, eighth-, ninth-, and tenth-generation)iPad (tenth-generation)


Simply put, if your iPad features a Lightning connector, it is only compatible with the first-generation Apple Pencil, providing it has Apple Pencil support at all. It will not work with the second-generation Apple Pencil or the Apple Pencil with USB-C. If your iPad features a USB-C port, it is compatible with the second-generation Apple Pencil and the Apple Pencil with USB-C, except the tenth-generation iPad, which supports the first-generation Apple Pencil and Apple Pencil with USB-C, and the M2 iPad Air and M4 iPad Pro, which support the Apple Pencil Pro and Apple Pencil with USB-C.

It is worth noting that the first-generation Apple Pencil is only compatible with the tenth-generation iPad using a USB-C cable and USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter. It is not possible to use the first-generation Apple Pencil this way with any other iPad model that has a USB-C port.

All four Apple Pencil models feature "pixel-perfect" precision, low latency, and tilt sensitivity, but feature different designs, pairing and charging methods, pressure sensitivity capabilities, and more. The below table lists all hardware and feature differences between the different Apple Pencil models.

Apple Pencil (first-generation, 2015)Apple Pencil (second-generation, 2018)Apple Pencil (USB-C, 2023)Apple Pencil Pro (2024)
Glossy finishMatte finishMatte finishMatte finish
Weighted to prevent rollingFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPadFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPadFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPad
Attaches magnetically for storage, pairing, and chargingAttaches magnetically for storageAttaches magnetically for storage, pairing, and charging
6.92-inch length6.53-inch length6.1-inch length[Currently unknown]
Removable capNon-removable sliding cap
Lightning connectorUSB-C port
Pair and charge via Lightning port or USB-C cable and USB-C to Apple Pencil AdapterPair and charge wirelesslyPair and charge via USB-C cablePair and charge wirelessly
Pressure sensitivityPressure sensitivityPressure sensitivity
Barrel roll
Double-tap to change toolsDouble-tap to change tools
Squeeze control
Haptic feedback
Find My support
Free engraving optionFree engraving option
$99$129$79$129

[td][/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]



First-Generation Apple Pencil vs. Apple Pencil With USB-C

Most users should choose the Apple Pencil with USB-C. For a price of just $79, the Apple Pencil with USB-C provides a good balance of features with a more modern design. It also has the added advantage of being compatible with a wide range of models and will likely work with all new iPad models for many years to come.

It is only worth opting for the first-generation Apple Pencil if you specifically want pressure-sensitivity for activities like illustration, since the Apple Pencil with USB-C does not have this feature. Buyers should be aware that this model comes at a $20 premium, requires a USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter with the tenth-generation iPad, and will not be compatible with any future iPad models. It also cannot be magnetically attached to an iPad for storage, features a larger and older design, and has a removable cap over the Lightning connector that's easy to lose.

Second-Generation Apple Pencil or Apple Pencil Pro vs. Apple Pencil With USB-C

If choosing between the second-generation Apple Pencil or Apple Pencil Pro and the Apple Pencil with USB-C, the second-generation and Pro models are a better choice on account of their superior feature set, but this requires spending an additional $50. Double-tap to change tools and pressure-sensitivity may be particularly useful additions for illustrators, while the easy pairing and charging on the side of an iPad provides a much better experience than a wired connection with a USB-C cable.

If you have o... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: Apple Pencil Buyer's Guide: Which Model Should You Choose?

Why in God's name can't they just make one Pencil that works with all the iPads (that support the Pencil at least)?

What possible reason is there to make this so complicated?

Can't innovate my ass!

Sigh.
 

ThunderSkunk

macrumors 68040
Dec 31, 2007
3,846
4,121
Milwaukee Area
holy shmolkes

I'm increasingly glad all my ipads and iphones use the first gen pencil and standard 3.5mm headphone jacks. I've seen the future and it looks like a freaking mess.
 

Rogifan

macrumors Penryn
Nov 14, 2011
24,252
31,335
If Apple had only put the webcam in landscape mode on the iPad Pro to begin with. I can’t believe they couldn’t figure out how to do charging and fit in the webcam until now.
 

Pezimak

macrumors 68030
May 1, 2021
2,974
3,261
I can understand why they’ve created this mess, obviously it’s due to the redesign of the magnetic and charging system for the pencil because they’ve moved the camera right under it. And I guess selling a cable to charge the now last gen magnetic Apple Pencil wasn’t good enough for Apple? Shame. But I have a feeling the new Mini will still support the older Pencil.
 

rby

macrumors newbie
Jul 30, 2022
2
3


Apple now offers four different Apple Pencil models at $79, $99, and $129 price points, each with different feature sets and compatibility. Our guide helps you decide which Apple Pencil is best for you.

Apple-Pencil-Buyers-Guide-Graphic-ft-Pro.jpg

Which Apple Pencil you should buy is firstly determined by which iPad model you have. Some iPad models are only compatible with one kind of Apple Pencil, while others are compatible with two. If your iPad model only supports one kind of Apple Pencil, your buying decision is straightforward. Use the table below to find out which Apple Pencil models your iPad supports:

Apple Pencil (first-generation, 2015)Apple Pencil (second-generation, 2018)Apple Pencil (USB-C, 2023)Apple Pencil Pro (2024)
iPad Pro 12.9-inch (first- and second-generation)iPad Pro 12.9-inch (third-, fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-generation)iPad Pro 12.9-inch (third-, fourth-, fifth-, sixth-, and seventh- generation)iPad Pro 13-inch (seventh-generation)
iPad Pro 9.7-inch and 10.5-inchiPad Pro 11-inch (first-, second-, third-, and fourth-generation)iPad Pro 11-inch (first-, second-, third-, fourth-, and fifth-generation)iPad Pro 11-inch (fifth-generation)
iPad Air (third-generation)iPad Air (fourth- and fifth-generation)iPad Air (fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-generation)iPad Air (sixth-generation)
iPad mini (fifth-generation)iPad mini (sixth-generation)iPad mini (sixth-generation)
iPad (sixth-, seventh-, eighth-, ninth-, and tenth-generation)iPad (tenth-generation)


Simply put, if your iPad features a Lightning connector, it is only compatible with the first-generation Apple Pencil, providing it has Apple Pencil support at all. It will not work with the second-generation Apple Pencil or the Apple Pencil with USB-C. If your iPad features a USB-C port, it is compatible with the second-generation Apple Pencil and the Apple Pencil with USB-C, except the tenth-generation iPad, which supports the first-generation Apple Pencil and Apple Pencil with USB-C, and the M2 iPad Air and M4 iPad Pro, which support the Apple Pencil Pro and Apple Pencil with USB-C.

It is worth noting that the first-generation Apple Pencil is only compatible with the tenth-generation iPad using a USB-C cable and USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter. It is not possible to use the first-generation Apple Pencil this way with any other iPad model that has a USB-C port.

All four Apple Pencil models feature "pixel-perfect" precision, low latency, and tilt sensitivity, but feature different designs, pairing and charging methods, pressure sensitivity capabilities, and more. The below table lists all hardware and feature differences between the different Apple Pencil models.

Apple Pencil (first-generation, 2015)Apple Pencil (second-generation, 2018)Apple Pencil (USB-C, 2023)Apple Pencil Pro (2024)
Glossy finishMatte finishMatte finishMatte finish
Weighted to prevent rollingFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPadFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPadFlat edge to prevent rolling and snap to the side of an iPad
Attaches magnetically for storage, pairing, and chargingAttaches magnetically for storageAttaches magnetically for storage, pairing, and charging
6.92-inch length6.53-inch length6.1-inch length[Currently unknown]
Removable capNon-removable sliding cap
Lightning connectorUSB-C port
Pair and charge via Lightning port or USB-C cable and USB-C to Apple Pencil AdapterPair and charge wirelesslyPair and charge via USB-C cablePair and charge wirelessly
Pressure sensitivityPressure sensitivityPressure sensitivity
Barrel roll
Double-tap to change toolsDouble-tap to change tools
Squeeze control
Haptic feedback
Find My support
Free engraving optionFree engraving option
$99$129$79$129

[td][/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]
[td]Supports Apple Pencil hover[/td]



First-Generation Apple Pencil vs. Apple Pencil With USB-C

Most users should choose the Apple Pencil with USB-C. For a price of just $79, the Apple Pencil with USB-C provides a good balance of features with a more modern design. It also has the added advantage of being compatible with a wide range of models and will likely work with all new iPad models for many years to come.

It is only worth opting for the first-generation Apple Pencil if you specifically want pressure-sensitivity for activities like illustration, since the Apple Pencil with USB-C does not have this feature. Buyers should be aware that this model comes at a $20 premium, requires a USB-C to Apple Pencil Adapter with the tenth-generation iPad, and will not be compatible with any future iPad models. It also cannot be magnetically attached to an iPad for storage, features a larger and older design, and has a removable cap over the Lightning connector that's easy to lose.

Second-Generation Apple Pencil or Apple Pencil Pro vs. Apple Pencil With USB-C

If choosing between the second-generation Apple Pencil or Apple Pencil Pro and the Apple Pencil with USB-C, the second-generation and Pro models are a better choice on account of their superior feature set, but this requires spending an additional $50. Double-tap to change tools and pressure-sensitivity may be particularly useful additions for illustrators, while the easy pairing and charging on the side of an iPad provides a much better experience than a wired connection with a USB-C cable.

If you have o... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: Apple Pencil Buyer's Guide: Which Model Should You Choose?
Wow it's that simple eh?

Imagine if Mac's didn't come with a mouse and keyboard and you needed a flow-chart to figure out what mouse and keyboard worked with your specific Mac model.

The iPad is a mess.
 

klasma

macrumors 603
Jun 8, 2017
5,733
16,322
Why in God's name can't they just make one Pencil that works with all the iPads (that support the Pencil at least)?

What possible reason is there to make this so complicated?
They had to change the wireless charging interface for the landscape camera. Hence no iPad model is able to support both the 2 and the Pro. The USB-C one is to provide a lower-cost option for non-Pro iPads. The 1 probably is still on sale because older iPad models are still supported by current iPadOS. Yes, it’s a mess, and hindsight is 20/20, but there are reasons for why it is the way it is.
 
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