Apple Planning November Launch of Apple Pay in Canada

[VinylStar]

What. About. Australia?

 

[macmurray]

Damn, my no-fee bank Tangerine is not listed. Usually they're ahead of the curve with tech stuff like this since they done actually have physical branches. Here's hoping that changes.

Also, does anyone know if Amex is supported since the card I have doesn't seem to be affiliated with a bank? (Amex Simply Cash)

Tangerine's back end is handled by Scotiabank AFAIK. So if Scotia supports it then Tangerine should as well (in theory).

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Unless your retailers revolt because they risk loosing tracking data.

That's what we've had here at some of our retailers 'CVS? RiteAid? who worked at launched, but blocked it because they lose the ability to datamine their customers.

There is a huge consortium of retailers who reject NFC now for this reason alone.

Walmart, Home Depot and Best Buy all still don't accept contactless payments. I believe they are all part of that godawful QR code payment group (can't remember the name of those losers).

 

[hogo-fogo]

No, thanks

I am not planning on using APay because I don't want to pay for using it.

 

[TallManNY]

Fees

I think the Banks see the writing on the wall here. Apple Pay is so secure and so fast and easy (and will be even more so once the watch is released) that they could see a majority of transactions going through Apple Pay in just a few years. I don't think they care about this level of fee. I think they care about the fee when they have to renegotiate in a few years and Apple Pay has 70% of the credit card transaction market.

Once you've used Apple Pay, it is the way you want to pay for everything else going forward. I will certainly consider dropping a credit card or even a bank if they don't support Apple Pay by the end of this year when more terminals become available. So Apple is going to have a huge amount of leverage in a very short period of time.

 

[TomMcIn]

Banks are the Security Problem - Not Apple Pay

All reports from the fraud problems in the US indicate that Apple Pay is completely secure for customers the banks have accepted. The problem is the crappy, rushed bank security procedures that accept invalid customers then tell Apple Pay the customers are fine. Hopefully the Canadian Consortium will help the Canadian Banks GET IT RIGHT.

And what about Credit Unions and the new Costco Mastercard?

 

[macmurray]

I am not planning on using APay because I don't want to pay for using it.

Pay for using it?

 

[RobQuads]

Again, do you know this for definite or are you just saying that because Apple said it? What is more secure about Apple Pay then the current NFC system already set up by the banks?

Yes the Apple system is more secure than the current NFC implementations which are essentially just digital copies of your single credit card. The Apple pay system (more Vista & MasterCard) uses tokens which are much more secure.

There is lost of information out there all about how it works if you want to go and read it, fair accurate to the internal implementation I have seen.

 

[576316]

Why rightly so. The UK banks are money grabbing shysters!?

And the basis of the 'unnamed' bank argument is null and void as no data is collected by apple - "So when you go to a physical business and use Apple Pay, Apple doesn’t know what you bought, where you bought it, or how much you paid for it. The transaction is between you, the merchant, and your bank."

And as for security. No other payment method is as secure. Period.

Also. Doesn't really have anything to do with the banks - If barclaycard or Visa implement it. and they will then that's that.

Even though Apple play no part in the transaction, why should they be allowed to take a cut of said transaction?

 

[Crzyrio]

"The banks are open to an agreement, but they aren’t happy with Apple’s fee proposals and are concerned about security vulnerabilities like the ones that U.S. banks experienced as they rolled out the service, the people said."

Several red herrings in that statement:
- banks Are afraid of losing even 0.15% fee to Apple;
- banks don't see their current credit card system as being fraud-u-listicly weak as the current USA mag stripe system is (therefore, they see Apple's fee as being inordinately high for a service that doesn't solve an expensive immediate or future problem;
- they are VERY worried about giving Apple a foothold in this market, by granting them mind-share. The risk here is that wide-spread use (and confidence in) Apple Pay will act as a gateway for Apple to eventually sherlock the banks (and credit card networks) by either/both opening up its own network, or (egads!) it's own bank*.

The banks are hiding behind a security ruse to play for time, hoping to get better terms from Apple as a result; if they never come to terms, they, in a strategic sense, would be much happier. The security reality is that Pay is much more secure than almost any other solution heretofore, and that the recent problems stemmed from banks choosing little to no verification ("green path") for the cards being added into the Pay system.

I'm not clear if the interchange fees charged by the card networks and banks are in line with the U.S., or not, but if they are more in line with the very low caps proposed in the EU, then an Apple service fee as large as that in the U.S. (Especially for a service not likely to be seen by banks as in their interest) will be near to insurmountable.

If Apple is playing the long game, then getting Pay up and running, even if being limited to a break-even fee, is essential. (Of course, Apple, in order to not tip its hand, will have to try to demand the same fee as in the U.S., perhaps adjusted for local fraud rates and any fee cap, as well as reinforcing the idea that the service is not a Trojan springboard into banking, but is only there to support the sale of its hardware.)

*eventually, Apple might choose to do this to keep its growth rate on track (it already has enough resources to do it if it chose, but such a big step will be saved for when the Company is much larger and needs big initiatives to overcome the "financial law of large numbers". Apple is giving the banks a chance to get into bed with them, until such time as Apple chooses to disrupt their industry and decimate them.

While I would love Apple Pay to come to Canada today, there is a legitimate concern with the authentication of using apple pay on devices. With the numbers continuing to increase.

All of this is an easy fix and the proposed solution is fairly simple and will plug a hole into the weakest point of the entire system.

 

[gnasher729]

And the basis of the 'unnamed' bank argument is null and void as no data is collected by apple - "So when you go to a physical business and use Apple Pay, Apple doesn’t know what you bought, where you bought it, or how much you paid for it. The transaction is between you, the merchant, and your bank."

I think "the banks are unhappy with the amount of information that Apple collects" doesn't mean that Apple collects too much information - it's more like Apple doesn't collect enough and doesn't hand it over to banks and merchants.

TApple isn't interested in collecting personal data with Apple Pay. They know they'd get slammed by regulatory bodies for that. They just want to keep you in their ecosystem.

More important for Apple, they make a lot of money through selling iPhones. Including selling iPhones to people who don't want their personal data collected. Ten times more money than Apple would make from the data.

 

[lunarworks]

Wow, well that's about time! These banks just own Canadians! 6 banks taking 90% of customers means that we have no competition and the banks can walk all over us with fees and policies.

I view "only 6 banks" as more of a positive.

It means they're stronger and more stable, and you're covered coast-to-coast.

Remember how dozens and dozens of US banks crashed last decade?

 

[Plutonius]

I am not planning on using APay because I don't want to pay for using it.

It doesn't cost you anything.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Tangerine uses TouchID to access the login screen on their app as an additional security measure. They also have passbook integration for quickly checking your account balances and recent transactions.

As does AMEX. I WISH ALL OTHER APPS REQUIRING AUTHENTICATION WOULD BE FORCED TO OFFER A TOUCH ID OPTION. (Oops, sorry for the caps)

 

[oneshotpro]

at RBC there will be a $10 per payment fee.

 

[V.K.]

Unless your retailers revolt because they risk loosing tracking data.

That's what we've had here at some of our retailers 'CVS? RiteAid? who worked at launched, but blocked it because they lose the ability to datamine their customers.

There is a huge consortium of retailers who reject NFC now for this reason alone.

ZERO chance of that in Canada. retailers here are heavily invested in NFC. it took several years but now it's everywhere (unlike US) and contactless credit cards are everywhere and the adoption is only getting wider. heck even some small shops in Toronto's Chinatown have NFC. nobody is bailing on that - the benefits of contactless NFC credit card payments are too big. most cards and most terminals here are chip-and-pin. this is more secure but takes longer than swipe as you have to navigate through several screens and enter your PIN. takes 5+ seconds (often longer). tap-to-pay is instantaneous and takes less than a second. retailers love it. they even increased transaction limits recently from 50$ to 100$ to entice more people to use it. they'd have to give all that up if they want to block Apple Pay. not happening.

 

[laurim]

sounded like there was some issue with bank security, not customer data.. i don't get it either, i haven't heard of any issue like this.

I think they are talking about criminals stealing credit cards, putting them in THEIR iPhone and using ApplePay as if they are the real card holder. The US card issuers have been lazy in making sure the person registering a credit card on a phone is actually the real person. Apple sends the bank the info in our iTunes accounts to help them identify us to approve registering the card but many banks haven't been checking it in their rush to get into the program. The fraud hasn't been widespread, mostly a couple specific gangs in a couple states who are good at identity theft. But it is enough to make banks nervous. Soon, it will be a little less instant to register a card with ApplePay and you'll have to do more to prove you have the right to use that card on your phone. ApplePay is still the most secure payment for the consumer.

 

[Robert.Walter]

While I would love Apple Pay to come to Canada today, there is a legitimate concern with the authentication of using apple pay on devices. With the numbers continuing to increase.

All of this is an easy fix and the proposed solution is fairly simple and will plug a hole into the weakest point of the entire system.

Please elaborate on what this "legitimate" concern is ... Please don't cite the set-up authentication process which I understand to have been tightened up. (U.S. Bank for example, required the user to call in, and has since added the requirement that the caller verify the balances of their last two statements.)

 

[laurim]

Even Apple play no part in the transaction, why should they be allowed to take a cut of said transaction?

Whenever a business accepts credit cards, they pay a fee to whatever service allows them to finish the transaction between the consumer and the card issuer. Apple doesn't get the information but they are the conduit between the two ends and are providing a service.

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Please elaborate on what this "legitimate" concern is ... Please don't cite the set-up authentication process which I understand to have been tightened up. (U.S. Bank for example, required the user to call in, and has since added the requirement that the caller verify the balances of their last two statements.)

US Bank may have tightened up their security but other banks haven't yet. There needs to be a formal process in place. I recently put my bank's card in my phone and no one checked anything with me. At the very least they should send an email to the card holder and say "your card, number ending in #### has been added to an iPhone for use in ApplePay. If this wasn't you, please contact us immediately"

 

[nia820]

So I'm guessing the rest of the world will get it by 2025?

 

[V.K.]

Whenever a business accepts credit cards, they pay a fee to whatever service allows them to finish the transaction between the consumer and the card issuer. Apple doesn't get the information but they are the conduit between the two ends and are providing a service.

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US Bank may have tightened up their security but other banks haven't yet. There needs to be a formal process in place. I recently put my bank's card in my phone and no one checked anything with me. At the very least they should send an email to the card holder and say "your card, number ending in #### has been added to an iPhone for use in ApplePay. If this wasn't you, please contact us immediately"

what other banks? Apple pay is available in US only. and the concerns you mentioned all had to do with the original enrollment of a card to use Apple pay. Canadian banks are aware of those issues and the original article specifically mentions that they are considering requiring "secondary authentication to verify customer information, such as entering a PIN, logging on to a mobile banking app or using a one-time passcode sent via text message before cards can be used on Apple Pay."

 

[Chrisbc]

I view "only 6 banks" as more of a positive.

It means they're stronger and more stable, and you're covered coast-to-coast.

Remember how dozens and dozens of US banks crashed last decade?

Sure so the price for that stability, which the banks benefit from the most through reduced competition, are increased fees, poor service and poor implementation of technology. Sounds like a win win for the banks?

 

[laurim]

what other banks? Apple pay is available in US only. and the concerns you mentioned all had to do with the original enrollment of a card to use Apple pay. Canadian banks are aware of those issues and the original article specifically mentions that they are considering requiring "secondary authentication to verify customer information, such as entering a PIN, logging on to a mobile banking app or using a one-time passcode sent via text message before cards can be used on Apple Pay."

All the American banks offering credit cards that will work with ApplePay ("US Bank" is the name of a bank in the USA, btw. It doesn't refer to all US banks). They are still allowing cards to be put into ApplePay too easily. Canada has seen the issues occurring in the US regarding identity theft and are creating ways to prevent it. All the participating banks in the US need to do the same.

 

[stevemiller]

Yeah remember when they said the same thing about coming March this year? Or iTunes Radio ever. I'm not blaming apple, I know this falls squarely on Canadian regulatory bodies that repeatedly side with greedy Canadian companies than consumer interests.

 

[V.K.]

All the American banks offering credit cards that will work with ApplePay ("US Bank" is the name of a bank in the USA, btw. It doesn't refer to all US banks). They are still allowing cards to be put into ApplePay too easily. Canada has seen the issues occurring in the US regarding identity theft and are creating ways to prevent it. All the participating banks in the US need to do the same.

sorry, I misunderstood you. I thought you just forgot an "s" in "US Bank".
then I fully agree with you but this issue is certainly solvable and mostly concerns US banks (plural ), not Canadian ones. It should not be slowing down Apple Pay roll out in Canada.

 

[pdaholic]

So many places still don't accept apple pay even in the US. Can't remember where I was the other day, but I asked the clerk if the reader accepted Apple Pay, and she looked at me as if I were trying to give her counterfeit money!