Apple Plans to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas in Fight Against Patent Trolls [Updated]

[vladi]

This is ridiculous! America desperately needs an overhaul of it's patent system. Look at the lengths companies have to go to, to protect themselves of these patent trolls who don't even make any actual product.

Patent troll is anyone who was given a patent based upon application that only consists of proper documentation with no physical product in sales now and maybe ever. So all of the companies which own patents are most likely patent trolls because all of them has some vaporware patents in their portfolio. You think Apple would not sue Samsung for something they have patented decade ago but Samsung wants to release it to the market? Of course they would, so in that scenario is Apple a patent troll or did Samsung steal their idea?

The only proper way to reform patent office is to kill design patents completely and give 5 year leeway for actual patented technology to reach production and any kind of sales distribution. You can't make it into 5 years it means you were sci-fying it so patent becomes invalid or free for all. As a thank you for helping out the world with ideas on paper you are entitled to recognition and some symbolic royalty rate determined by patent office for all of the idea on paper patents no matter what. This way you would stop companies and people for putting out meaningless patents with no intention to build one, if technology is still not there yet you have to wait until it's ready to go ahead and patent it that's why you get 5 years.

 

[Tech198]

Apple has a keen eye for wood.

 

[Carnegie]

Can someone simplify this for me?
Whats the issue (???)
...

The federal court system is divided into districts. Each state has at least one federal district, some have several.

The Eastern District of Texas is one which is perceived as being favorable for plaintiffs in patent infringement cases. It's not so much that outcomes there favor plaintiffs, it's that procedural tendencies do. For instance, judges in that district may be less likely to grant summary judgments which would end cases sooner. Or they may tend to allow more discovery. Such things increase the cost litigation. Defendants have to spend more time and money defending themselves, even when plaintiffs' cases aren't as strong. So some think it's a disadvantage for potential patent infringement defendants - of which Apple surely is one - for plaintiffs to be able to file suit against them in that district.

Under U.S. law, a patent infringement case may be brought in a district either (1) where the defendant resides or (2) where the defendant as "a regular and established place of business." About two years ago the Supreme Court ruled that a corporation only resides (for purposes of patent infringement actions) in the state in which it is incorporated, rather than in every district in which it's subject to a court's personal jurisdiction. Apple is incorporated in California.

So, Apple can only be sued (successfully) in the Eastern District of Texas if it has "a regular and established place of business" there. That would include it having retail stores there. Apple is, apparently, going to be closing the only two retail stores it has in that district. Some think it is doing that so that, going forward, plaintiffs won't be able to bring patent infringement actions against it in that district.

Whether it's true that plaintiffs won't be able to bring actions in that district, I don't know. Apple could do other things there which would be considered regular and established places of businesses. Further, at any rate, I don't know if that's the reason the stores are being closed.

 

[theskog]

This is hilarious and kind of sad for the Apple fans in that District. The love for giant damages in their community has driven out a job-creator. Good job guys.

The downside is they have to deal with crappy customers.

 

[Bgrayson]

The new store is 7 miles away from this one :/

7 miles is not the issue. Apple is eliminating their stores in the one of the fastest growing and most affluent communities in the US. The new Galleria location is located in a much more urban, congested area and much closer to existing Apple stores in the region. Traffic and parking issues at the Galleria are almost intolerable.

In contrast, the locations being closed are in great malls and are constantly packed. The Willow Bend store recently completed a beautiful upgrade that included addional space. These stores are convenient and thriving, and it’s hard to see how Galleria handles the traffic from either location, much less both.

 

[theskog]

Eastern District of Texas is known worldwide as the court for patent trolls. Apple is making a very wise decision here. I hope it reduces tax income for the Eastern District.

On the other foot, Apple is dodging an area where they're in violation of many patents and instead of properly fighting them, they're leaving. That should tell you something about Apple.

 

[yngrshr]

NO PITY Apple! Move your off shore cash home! Fix Itunes! Fix Photos! No patent trolls owning up to that mess!!

You should add a few more exclamation points.

 

[theskog]

7 miles is not the issue. Apple is eliminating their stores in the one of the fastest growing and most affluent communities in the US. The new Galleria location is located in a much more urban, congested area and much closer to existing Apple stores in the region. Traffic and parking issues at the Galleria are almost intolerable.

In contrast, the locations being closed are in great malls and are constantly packed. The Willow Bend store recently completed a beautiful upgrade that included addional space. These stores are convenient and thriving, and it’s hard to see how Galleria handles the traffic from either location, much less both.

And they JUST finished that upgrade. And those cozy little stay-at-home moms in Collin County aren't going to drive to the ghetto-ass Galleria.

 

[yngrshr]

On the other foot, Apple is dodging an area where they're in violation of many patents and instead of properly fighting them, they're leaving. That should tell you something about Apple.

You know nothing about how EDTX operates. The community itself has embraced patent litigation. It’s actually pretty astounding. I believe it was 60 Minutes that did a really great story on it. The community brought this upon itself by openly embracing patent trolls and the business they brought.

 

[theskog]

If there wasn’t some since of bias these companies would file in their own districts. Why go to Texas of all places. Either they hate companies like Apple or they are easily rewarded for having the right idea.

The problem on the other foot is that all the lawsuits against Apple are proof of their blatant disregard for existing patents and use them without permission. Even the Swiss sued Apple for using the Swiss railway design for the Clock app. Apple thought they could just use that without permission because they're not in Switzerland.
[doublepost=1550928325][/doublepost]

Wait, what? It always seems to be pretty packed and busy when I go there.

Willow Bend's history is it was going to be a sweet mall, but 9/11 happened and it crashed. The place was dead for years and the Apple store is what saved it.

If Apple is using a technology from an existing patent and chooses to develop the tech anyway, and it's NOT a general-use patent, then YES! Apple DOES have to get permission to use them. Otherwise, pay the damages.
[doublepost=1550928518][/doublepost]

You buy a keyboard every 3 years? Are Apple keyboards that poor of quality?

Yes lol
[doublepost=1550928602][/doublepost]

Southlake could use the update, anyhow. Good choice there, and great strategy by Apple. US Patent System abuse costing real inconvenience to real people.

And instead of fighting it, Apple is moving to dodge their own patent abuse.
[doublepost=1550929013][/doublepost]

Ha, good one. Funny for people to tell jokes.

Truth!! Lol #thatbigdlife

 

[OLSinFLA]

Patent troll is anyone who was given a patent based upon application that only consists of proper documentation with no physical product in sales now and maybe ever. So all of the companies which own patents are most likely patent trolls because all of them has some vaporware patents in their portfolio. You think Apple would not sue Samsung for something they have patented decade ago but Samsung wants to release it to the market? Of course they would, so in that scenario is Apple a patent troll or did Samsung steal their idea?

The only proper way to reform patent office is to kill design patents completely and give 5 year leeway for actual patented technology to reach production and any kind of sales distribution. You can't make it into 5 years it means you were sci-fying it so patent becomes invalid or free for all. As a thank you for helping out the world with ideas on paper you are entitled to recognition and some symbolic royalty rate determined by patent office for all of the idea on paper patents no matter what. This way you would stop companies and people for putting out meaningless patents with no intention to build one, if technology is still not there yet you have to wait until it's ready to go ahead and patent it that's why you get 5 years.

The problem with that scenario is say you patent something that might be useful in the future but not quite yet (like the LASER was originally). Now, BadCorp has found a way to use that, but why pay you - in 2 years it will be free... so it will wait. Now GoodCorp might buy the patent to block BadCorp from using it for a few years, but BadCorp can find another way anyways.

 

[lkrupp]

Well that is inconvenient... Apple Stonebriar is my Apple Store.

Well then talk to your fellow citizens in the district about the ridiculous judgements they hand out to patent trolls.

 

[cmaier]

The problem on the other foot is that all the lawsuits against Apple are proof of their blatant disregard for existing patents and use them without permission. Even the Swiss sued Apple for using the Swiss railway design for the Clock app. Apple thought they could just use that without permission because they're not in Switzerland.
[doublepost=1550928325][/doublepost]
Willow Bend's history is it was going to be a sweet mall, but 9/11 happened and it crashed. The place was dead for years and the Apple store is what saved it.
[doublepost=1550928483][/doublepost]
You have your head up your ass.

If Apple is using a technology from an existing patent and chooses to develop the tech anyway, and it's NOT a general-use patent, then YES! Apple DOES have to get permission to use them. Otherwise, pay the damages.
[doublepost=1550928518][/doublepost]
Yes lol
[doublepost=1550928602][/doublepost]
And instead of fighting it, Apple is moving to dodge their own patent abuse.
[doublepost=1550929013][/doublepost]
Truth!! Lol #thatbigdlife

They win almost all the patent lawsuits filed against them, which is proof they do not disregard others’ patent rights. And there are over 10 million patents. Most companies who are found to have infringed patents have no idea they are doing so until they are sued.
[doublepost=1550935157][/doublepost]

I don't think you understand. The Eastern District Ct is favorable for patent plaintiffs. The trolls want to be in there. They want to bring suits there. For them to bring a suit there, Apple must be there. Apple is taking that venue out of the mix, which favors Apple in defending suits because they will be brought elsewhere, in less favorable venues.

It all just goes to show how ridiculously biased the judicial system is. Everything you were taught as a kid about justice being blind is nonsense. It's about race, religion, politics, sex, etc.

This is why we had that huge presidential fight over Kavanaugh.
[doublepost=1550858645][/doublepost]

Stop, please. There are legitimate patent lawsuits. Even against companies you love, like Apple.

To clarify, since people don't understand: THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT PATENT TROLLS. THIS INVOLVES ANY AND ALL PATENT INFRINGEMENT CLAIMS AGAINST APPLE.

Apple made a strategical move (which other companies are very likely to make as well) to make winning a patent infringement suit harder by removing a favorable venue. As Apple, I can't really criticize the move. I would do so as well if I were in their position. But I am really curious what this is going to do to the eastern district of Tx. I can't see any large tech companies staying there that aren't incorporated there.

This is like when states make over-generalized limits on how much you can recover from a medical malpractice case: it's not just about the bad players, it affects all players including the people who legit suffered large damages.

I wish people would get over their biases, and the circle jerk over patents.

I haven’t seen anybody other than non-practicing entities suing apple in the eastern district. When they fight with their competitors in court it happens in California or other districts.

 

[lunarworks]

Be that as it may, companies dead or alive that hold rights to patents have rights to defend them. If apple is choosing to just leave the district, that's very telling of how well Apple wants to defend their case, which is not much at all.

Lawsuits are filed in that district specifically because it's friendly towards patent trolls. Judges there are known to be heavily biased towards them. It's been that way for a couple of decades now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite...e_Eastern_District_of_Texas#Patent_litigation

In 2003, there were 14 patent cases filed. In 2004, this number more than quadrupled to 59 patent cases filed. In 2006, the number of cases grew to an estimated 236.[5]

The district has been perceived to be a favorable jurisdiction for plaintiffs in patent infringement lawsuits, which win 88% of the time compared to a nationwide average of 68% in 2006,[6] even, according to some claims, in dubious cases (i.e. patent trolls).[7]

Nothing is stopping these trolls from filing lawsuits in other districts. They just want the scales tipped in their favour.

 

[cmaier]

Do the Apple haters who think it’s unfair that Apple can’t be sued someplace where they have no business presence also think that every business should have to have an office in the Eastern District of Texas so they can be sued here? Does the local donut shop have to open an office in Marshall, Texas so that they can be sued for ripping of the recipe for cronuts?

 

[bflowers]

You buy a keyboard every 3 years? Are Apple keyboards that poor of quality?

I'm still on my original with my 2012 iMac. I have several other older keyboards in the basement from previous Macs, and the only one that is broken is the one that had something heavy dropped on it by one of the kids. I've worked to tons of Macs, even ran a Mac lab in college. Apple's desktop keyboards are fine. Anyone replacing their's regularly is extremely abusive to it, and blaming that abuse on the quality.

 

[RogerWilco]

SCOTUS? Who's he.

Please tell me that you don’t vote.

 

[cmaier]

Well, SCOTUS ruled that physical nexus isn’t necessary to collect sales taxes, any online sales are equivalent. So is Apple going to cancel all consumer sales and support in the disputed territories?

That’s irrelevant to the patent suit issue. Read this case: http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/Cray_2017-129_9.21.17_ORDER.pdf

 

[Jdoll0060]

In terms of filing, the rules in EDTX are the same as every single other district in this country.

I highly doubt Apples highly paid legal team would overlook something so obvious, so I’m gonna say they it’s different per zone, and yes they can still sue Apple in California but they will be using California regulation.
[doublepost=1550949949][/doublepost]

He's Texan, not smart...

Big talk coming from a dude that has a shirtless picture of himself squinting into the sun like Donald Trump looking at the solar eclipse.

 

[cmaier]

I highly doubt Apples highly paid legal team would overlook something so obvious, so I’m gonna say they it’s different per zone, and yes they can still sue Apple in California but they will be using California regulation.
[doublepost=1550949949][/doublepost]
Big talk coming from a dude that has a shirtless picture of himself squinting into the sun like Donald Trump looking at the solar eclipse.

The filing rules are the same. He is right. The local patent rules, which happen AFTER filing, are different (though not terribly different than places like the Northern District of California, in most respects). Their discovery rules are quite different. Some people think their judges tend to favor plaintiffs. Some people think their juries tend to award very high damages dollar figures.

 

[gnasher729]

On the other foot, Apple is dodging an area where they're in violation of many patents and instead of properly fighting them, they're leaving. That should tell you something about Apple.

Anyone who believes or claims Apple is infringing on their patents in the USA still has a huge number of district courts to choose from. So are you actually, seriously proposing that Apple is in violation of patents in the Eastern District of Texas, and nowhere else? Your argument tells us a lot more about you than it says about Apple.

 

[Joesmith13245]

Live close to both stores and never purchased/serviced any of my apple products from it. Local apple resellers are celebrating right about now.
[doublepost=1550885954][/doublepost]
Actually the opposite in that area. Toyota NA HQ now in Plano, Ericsson has a huge presence, HP, etc.List goes on.

The TC Heartland case, and the In re: Cray follow up were fairly recent. Before now it didn’t much matter if you were in the eastern district because if you were sued there the courts would usually allow the suit to proceed there. Now things are different. Much like Brexit, you may see companies leave the district if they don’t have a good reason to be there.

Only time will tell I guess.

 

[gnasher729]

The problem on the other foot is that all the lawsuits against Apple are proof of their blatant disregard for existing patents and use them without permission. Even the Swiss sued Apple for using the Swiss railway design for the Clock app. Apple thought they could just use that without permission because they're not in Switzerland.

Not at all. Fact is that some Apple employee was an idiot who thought he could just rip off the Swiss railway clock design for the Clock app, and didn't contact Apple's legal department (whose answer would be along the lines of "what are you idiot thinking"). I'm quite sure this is an ex-employee, and I have some idea who would have been high up enough, arrogant enough, and stupid enough to do this.
[doublepost=1550954743][/doublepost]

It's really rather cute that Apple wants to play victim status but when the shoe's on the other foot not a word is said by them or any Apple fanboy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockstar_Consortium

That was purely defensive. You know how much patent trouble Google has caused Microsoft, and how much they would have caused Apple if they had won the bid?
[doublepost=1550954892][/doublepost]

Now Apple will be sued for depriving residents of the area of access to Apple stores.

Did Trump finish his wall without telling anyone, and did he build it around the Eastern District of Texas? I think they can just take their car to the nearest Apple Store.
[doublepost=1550955173][/doublepost]

How exactly does Google fit the mold for having a physical presence in the district?

I suppose that Google, whose business is mainly selling advertisements, has offices in many places to sell advertisements to the local people there, including an office in the Eastern District of Texas.

 

[Williesleg]

Kindof like the 9th Circus court in San Francisco.
You'd think judges wouldn't have an agenda.
Those that do need to be removed from service. It's common sense.

 

[cmaier]

Kindof like the 9th Circus court in San Francisco.
You'd think judges wouldn't have an agenda.
Those that do need to be removed from service. It's common sense.

The sixth circuit is overturned by the Supreme Court much more than the ninth circuit. But don’t let facts get in the way of your political talking points.