Apple please listen; I want a MacBook but Dell is cheaper & better equipped

[roland.g]

it is only about The Apple Experience™

you are paying a premium, some times slight, sometime significant, for The Apple Experience™, which is all the tangibles and the intangibles, from the way the enclosure looks to how easy iMovie is; the way an Apple Store feels when you walk into it, the apple stickers in the box, the John Hodgman commercials, the glowing apple on the back of the Macbook, the font and colors used on thier website, and a million other things large and small.

dell will never give you The Apple Experience™, sony will never give you The Apple Experience™, only Apple will.

some are willing to pay for it, some are not. some love it, some do not.

any argument over component comparisons and dueling operating systems are a waste of time.

you do not like the price of the macbook, too bad. lots of people do, and they will buy it to get The Apple Experience™. If you will not, then that is both Apple's loss as well as yours, but apple is not going to alter its pricing at the cost of losing The Apple Experience™.

well said. yet people will continue to go on and on ad infinitum about how they want it to cost the same. and those people just don't get it. other than they want quality for cheap. I always have to tell my wife the same thing, why buy a fill in the blank for $200 that lasts 2-5 years when you can get a better fill in the blank for $500 that lasts 15-25 years. cheap stuff is cheap stuff. now computers are arguable more disposable, we replace them often enough, but nonetheless, the premium is for the experience, the longevity, the resale, and the lack of headache.

Do what I want, do it now, do it well, so I can get on to the next thing.
That is my Apple experience.

 

[roland.g]

Congratulations. I think you've won me over.

When you're right, you're right.

boxlight

awesome.

oh and btw, when you want to give Apple feedback, go to apple.com or call 1800-my-apple and give them feedback. tell them what you what.
you may not get it, but you can let them hear it. But a bit of advice, make it about what you want them to improve, develop, what part of the market they're missing. Please don't tell them to make cheaper computers. Because cheaper = cheaply made.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

I mean, we're pretty much just talking about ram and hard drive space. Why such a huge difference?

Materials, engineering, industrial design, you name it.

You're paying a premium cost for a premium package. If you want to drive a Ford or a GM, that's fine. If you want a Lexus or a BMW, however, be ready to pony up some more cash.

 

[MacManTexas56]

hmmmm yeah i have NO clue about pc prices whatsoever!!!! hmmm i also didn't buy my dell 700m in my sig for $679 either.....but hey that's impossible and not true either. theres been plenty of threads where this has come up and people are like dell is just as expensive and when i post the links to laptops that are actually HALF the price then somehow people leave the thread and never come back to respond. if you are smart and knew the dell game you would know how their pricing works and when to buy. if you're an apple fanboy and you try to compare to what's on the site right now it will be slightly cheaper but not as cheap as you can get it for via dell outlet...call a rep or even a coupon. i've sold tons and tons of dell laptops and a majority of them were pentium m's with 80gb hard drive and dvd burner....they only cost me under $400 with shipping and tax....u know how much a comparable mac laptop would be? that same machine would be $1299 or so.

here's a few to check out....oh and they are refurbished so compare to apple refurbished prices....some may even be brand new....

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...tails?systemId=EP1R8F5R&c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...tails?systemId=EJ920LEA&c=us&cs=28&l=en&s=dfb

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...emId=F5D0JF61&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22

here's another thread with no responses from the prices i posted....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/238312/

 

[Eraserhead]

If you are comparing Dell Outlet then it's hardly a fair comparison (unless you compare to Apple refurbished, though I'm not sure if the conditions are the same)

Basically the MB is waiting for Merom (aka Core 2), and so is currently a poor comparison to the Dell, when that comes I'd expect to see the Macbook have 1GB RAM (which it desperately needs) and an 80GB HD, with the black having a 100GB HD. The clock speeds will probably stay the same though they may go to 2/2.16Ghz. (depends what happens to the MBP).

Oh and the Core Duo chip in the Macbook is a LOT faster than a Pentium M so the comparison isn't fair, it also has a battery that lasts for more than an hour (I find mine lasts about 3.5 hours) so you can work away from a power socket.

 

[MacManTexas56]

If you are comparing Dell Outlet then it's hardly a fair comparison (unless you compare to Apple refurbished, though I'm not sure if the conditions are the same)

Basically the MB is waiting for Merom (aka Core 2), and so is currently a poor comparison to the Dell, when that comes I'd expect to see the Macbook have 1GB RAM (which it desperately needs) and an 80GB HD, with the black having a 100GB HD. The clock speeds will probably stay the same though they may go to 2/2.16Ghz. (depends what happens to the MBP).

Oh and the Core Duo chip in the Macbook is a LOT faster than a Pentium M so the comparison isn't fair, it also has a battery that lasts for more than an hour (I find mine lasts about 3.5 hours) so you can work away from a power socket.

i said compare to apple refurbished......even so you're saying that's not fair. bc apple refurbished are now better haha. ridiculous...

 

[Mac-Addict]

My dad kept on at me about why I wanted him to lent me £500 towards my imac (yes some of it hes going to pay for and some I will pay for and some I borrowed from him..), I took him to a apple reseller (John lewis) and he saw the iMac and had a go.. by the end he wanted to buy a mac mini there and then.

 

[roland.g]

here's a few to check out....oh and they are refurbished so compare to apple refurbished prices....some may even be brand new....

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...tails?systemId=EP1R8F5R&c=us&cs=22&l=en&s=dfh

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...tails?systemId=EJ920LEA&c=us&cs=28&l=en&s=dfb

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...emId=F5D0JF61&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22

here's another thread with no responses from the prices i posted....

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/238312/

those prices R great. and yes they R ALL refurbed. And I for one have no idea of the quality control on Dell refurbs. So umm come back with some new system prices. oh, no wait, we don't want Dells, so don't.

 

[himansk]

I dont understand why everybody compares Apple systems to Dell, why not IBM(Thinkpads-Lenovo) or Sony? They are normally costlier than Dell, still people do buy them without complaining. How many people do we hear complaining about IBM, I myself owned one before I bought a macbook pro.The IBM thinkpad was costlier than Dell, but I never had any problems with it, while my roommates in college had numerous problems. I loved my IBM much more than I would have loved a Dell in that scenario.

When people buy ferrari or other higher priced cars, they do it for the experience and quality among other things. If ferrari had a 15000$ car in the market, wont it affect their image and the quality? They choose to offer only high priced models, but I dont want to compare a macbook pro to a ferrari enzo

Everybody has their preferences, some look for lower price more than the quality and looks and sometimes even specifications, but its their choice. If you are looking for a cheaper laptop than the macs, then try other manufacturers. Apple chooses not to offer a lower priced laptop, to keep its image and the experience they offer. R&D on an OS isnt cheap, Dell etc dont have to work on an OS, all they do is put XP Home into the cheap systems. The testing and other designing of hardware isnt cheap.

The look, feel and the experience that apple offers cost more than the what other companies offers. If you dont like that or dont want it that way, then you are always welcome to buy from another manufacturer. Who knows, Apple might reduce macbook/pro prices in the next update like it did for the ipods, but dont expect a 500 macbook which beats ALL the computer manufacturers' systems in specifications .

 

[MacManTexas56]

those prices R great. and yes they R ALL refurbed. And I for one have no idea of the quality control on Dell refurbs. So umm come back with some new system prices. oh, no wait, we don't want Dells, so don't.

the quality is great....i guarantee if i put a brand new one side by side with a refurb you couldn't tell the difference.....

AND even if they were brand new......you're same response would be...

"oh, no wait, we don't want Dells, so don't."


again if u want to add a few hundred to them to be realistic when they were bought new or compare to an apple refurb you can....again the prices are a HUGE difference not just $250 like the OP states......

 

[jne381]

It's the software stupid.

(For the less capable, I'm not calling the OP stupid, I am just taking a familiar quote and inserting the word "software.")

 

[roland.g]

the quality is great....i guarantee if i put a brand new one side by side with a refurb you couldn't tell the difference.....

AND even if they were brand new......you're same response would be...

"oh, no wait, we don't want Dells, so don't."


again if u want to add a few hundred to them to be realistic when they were bought new or compare to an apple refurb you can....again the prices are a HUGE difference not just $250 like the OP states......

Fine, give me link of a brand new or refurb core duo dell, specs, etc. to a macbook of same or near same (also brand new or refurb) and as near to same specs as you can. it's fine if one has more RAM etc, if we are comparing base systems.

 

[yellow]

You can't get OS X (legally) on a Dell, so comparing prices with a Dell (or a Lenovo or a Sony or a Toshiba or a Mom&PopSpecial) is completely POINTLESS. Additionally to make the comparison VALID, (IMO) If you buy a Mac to only run Windows.. you are POINTLESS.

 

[MacManTexas56]

Fine, give me link of a brand new or refurb core duo dell, specs, etc. to a macbook of same or near same (also brand new or refurb) and as near to same specs as you can. it's fine if one has more RAM etc, if we are comparing base systems.

i've already quoted them......go look at my first post. one compares to a MBP

 

[Eraserhead]

i said compare to apple refurbished......even so you're saying that's not fair. bc apple refurbished are now better haha. ridiculous...

No you didn't the Macbook (mid range) is $1299, that's not the refurb cost. I have no idea if Dell refurb is better than Apple refurb as I've never bought a refurb computer (as Edu discount is better!)

 

[roland.g]

i've already quoted them......go look at my first post. one compares to a MBP

Yes, the Dell is cheaper. That word has more than one meaning here.
It is about $800-1000 less on the new or refurbed side for a comparable system. Now that I have give you that, several things of note.

1. Though I don't know THAT much about Dells, it seems as though the Dell you referenced is more like a MacBook other than the dedicated video. The MBP seems (and I say seems) more comparable to a Dell XPS which is $2300+.

2. The MBP is much more expensive than a MacBook and though I like them, I would have a hard time unless funds were in excessive abundance of justifying a MBP.

3. It's a Dell.

4. Last but not least, I too have worked in IT and have setup, serviced and maintained many Dells, incl. servers, and spent far too much time troubleshooting Dells. The reason, the hardware and OS are made by different companies. Neither of those companies has any interest in enhancing or streamlining the user experience any more than they absolutely have to. While on my Macs, I just use them.

I could buy a car. I could drive that car everyday. Which would I rather do. Drive the car and fill it with gas. Or change the oil and spark plugs and flush the radiator each time I fill up with gas. I won't get as far if I have to do all that all the time.

Time is money. Buy the cheaper computer. Give up more of your time just to accomplish the same workload. I'm already too busy to do everything I need to waste time waiting to get something done when I could be already.

 

[SMM]

The real story

Here is a quote from our Dell business account:

Inspiron 640m Dual Core

$1,426
From $1,426
Now from
$1,426

Discount Details

Preliminary Ship Date: Unavailable1

My Selections All Options


Inspiron 640m Dual Core




Date 10/16/2006 2:59:25 PM Central Standard Time

Catalog Number 5 Retail 555



Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id



Inspiron 640m:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T5600 (2MB Cache/1.83GHz/667MHz FSB) BMD18HM [222-4838] 1


Operating System (Office software not included):
Genuine Windows® XP Professional WPXP [412-0689][412-0706][412-0911][420-4770][420-5477][420-5769][463-2282] 11


Operating System Backup & Recovery:
Genuine Windows® XP Professional backup CD XPPMED [310-6845] 135


Memory:
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm 1G2D [311-5849] 3


LCD Panel:
14.1 inch Wide Screen XGA Display 14XGA [320-4696] 2


Combo or DVD+RW Drive:
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability 8XDVDRW [313-4050][420-5784][420-5790] 16


Video Card:
Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 INTVID [320-4698] 6


Hard Drive:
120GB Hard Drive 120GB [341-3816][420-5449] 8


Network Card and Modem:
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem INTNIC [430-1574] 13


Primary Battery:
53 WHr 6-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery 6BAT [312-0412] 27


Office Software (not included in Windows XP):
Microsoft Office Basic - Includes Word, Excel, and Outlook email IBASIC [412-0452][412-0860] 22


Anti-Virus/Security Suite (Pre-installed):
McAfee Security Center w/ VirusScan, Firewall and Privacy, 90-day trial MCAFE90 [412-0850] 25


Financial Software:
No QuickBooks package selected NOQB [463-9752] 83


Dial-Up Internet Access:
No ISP Requested NISP [412-0148] 37


Adobe Software:
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0 ADOBER [412-0917] 15


Wireless Networking Cards:
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 Internal Wireless IP3945 [430-1922] 19


Future Operating Systems:
Windows Vista™ Capable VISTAC [465-4663] 118


Processor Branding:
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor ICNDNB [310-8314] 749


Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:
3 Yr Ltd Warranty, 3 Yr Mail-in Service, and 3 Yr HW Warranty Support T3YRR [950-5442][960-2780][960-5782][970-2110][983-8407][983-8408] 29
That is the real price from Dell's site. That also does not include any virus protection SW (required), or any comparable Apple iLife SW. People who make these wild claims should post their actual quotes if they wish to be believed. Otherwise, they smell of Dell marketers.

 

[ctsport1234]

I think apple's 'premium' is worth it

 

[clevin]

It's NOT a price HIKE. Apples have always cost more. It's an unfortunate truth of being a Mac user. Why? Once again, Apple sells less computers than Dell, therefore parts cost them more, therefore they have to charge more to the end user.

Your logic is flawed, if "sell less" is the reason to be "more expensive", you know what result you would get.
People complain about apple is not a bad thing for apple, it makes them understand what people want and why people didn't buy macs, which is a valuable information for them.
If Apple makes a bunch of ads trying to convert people, then they should stay cool handling the switcher's complaints, there isn't such a nice thing that you persuade people buy your stuff but disallow them to complaint about the bugs in your product, if you guys are so happy about everything about mac, and so tolerable about every of apple's flaw, then sorry, computer world isn't that old days anymore, if apple want to competewith dell, IBM HP, then be ready for the comparison, fair, or unfair, and from every prospective.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

yeah.

no doubt that there are guerilla marketing operations. but honestly. there are some dell pc's cheap ones. which have crap generic components that they "compete" with.

they dont compete. those laptops fall apart and are crap.

buy an apple, buy applecare. enjoy!

 

[clevin]

Here is a quote from our Dell business account:
Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:
3 Yr Ltd Warranty, 3 Yr Mail-in Service, and 3 Yr HW Warranty Support T3YRR [950-5442][960-2780][960-5782][970-2110][983-8407][983-8408] 29
That is the real price from Dell's site. That also does not include any virus protection SW (required), or any comparable Apple iLife SW. People who make these wild claims should post their actual quotes if they wish to be believed. Otherwise, they smell of Dell marketers.

how many years of warranty? how much does applecare 3year plan costs?
There is no reason to talk about what software a Mac has pre-installed, coz windows has an ocean of freewares that can compete with apples stuff,
To compare the price, is never the right way to win people over, coz Mac ISN't Cheap after all.

yeah.

no doubt that there are guerilla marketing operations. but honestly. there are some dell pc's cheap ones. which have crap generic components that they "compete" with.

they dont compete. those laptops fall apart and are crap.

buy an apple, buy applecare. enjoy!

u are demonizing pc laptop company, there isn't any laptop from dell, hp or IBM just "fall apart", at the same time, check MB's a series of problems by yourself.

 

[yellow]

Your logic is flawed, if "sell less" is the reason to be "more expensive", you know what result you would get.

How is it flawed? It's how markets work. Sell more products, then the pieces to make said product should cost you less in bulk. Smaller Apple's bulk does not equal Dell's bulk.

if apple want to competewith dell, IBM HP, then be ready for the comparison, fair, or unfair, and from every prospective.

I figured they'd more or less be doing this since 1976, no?

 

[lmalave]

Here is a quote from our Dell business account:

Inspiron 640m Dual Core

$1,426
From $1,426
Now from
$1,426

Discount Details

Preliminary Ship Date: Unavailable1

My Selections All Options


Inspiron 640m Dual Core

Inspiron 640m:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T5600 (2MB Cache/1.83GHz/667MHz FSB) BMD18HM [222-4838] 1

Memory:
1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm 1G2D [311-5849] 3


LCD Panel:
14.1 inch Wide Screen XGA Display 14XGA [320-4696] 2


Combo or DVD+RW Drive:
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability 8XDVDRW [313-4050][420-5784][420-5790] 16

Hard Drive:
120GB Hard Drive 120GB [341-3816][420-5449] 8

Office Software (not included in Windows XP):
Microsoft Office Basic - Includes Word, Excel, and Outlook email IBASIC [412-0452][412-0860] 22

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options:
3 Yr Ltd Warranty, 3 Yr Mail-in Service, and 3 Yr HW Warranty Support T3YRR [950-5442][960-2780][960-5782][970-2110][983-8407][983-8408] 29
That is the real price from Dell's site. That also does not include any virus protection SW (required), or any comparable Apple iLife SW. People who make these wild claims should post their actual quotes if they wish to be believed. Otherwise, they smell of Dell marketers.

I would point out the following, when comparing it to a 1.83 GHz MacBook:

- Your quote has a DVD burner, 1GB RAM, 120GB hard drive, and 3 year warranty. Adding those to the $1099 iBook and you end up with a $1698 price point.
- Your quote is for a Core *2* Duo, which I've seem from Dell is normally a $100 upgrade over the regular Core Duo. Core 2 Duo isn't even available yet for the MacBook, but let's assume it was a $100 upgrade and you're now talking $1798 for a similarly spec'ed MacBook.

So the point is, Macs will never be cheaper than a "commodity" PC maker like Dell. At least Macs are now in the ballpark, though, where the price difference is no longer prohibitive. For example, in the above example if you do your own RAM and hard drive upgrade, you'd probably knock off a couple hundred from the price, so now you're talking a less than $200 difference.

But the point is, this kind of featur-by-feature comparison shopping is increasingly *not* the way that computer purchases are made, in my opinion. Apple doesn't need their entry-level MacBook to match a Dell at the same price point feature-for-feature. Apple just needs a computer (whether it's the MacBook, Mac mini, or iMac) that's priced low enough to fit into the budget of someone who's in the market for a computer. For example, earlier this year I sold an HP Pavilion laptop that had a 15.2" widescreen, DVD burner, 100 GB hard drive, and 1 GB RAM, at a $500 loss, to buy a MacBook that had a 13" screen, 60GB hard drive, 512 MB RAM, and no DVD burner. I had buyer's regret within a couple of weeks of buying my HP, whereas I'm still nothing but thrilled with my MacBook after 6 months...

 

[roland.g]

Dell lovers/defenders.

I posted a poll just for you.
Let me know what you have and why you would rather have a PC than a Mac.
And most importantly why you spend so much time here.

 

[Edge100]

I'm writing this not to be troll, but to publicly voice how disappointed I am with the current pricing of the entry level MacBook.

I'm a happy owner of a 20" intel iMac and I want to buy an entry level MacBook as a second computer. This is what I see (all prices Canadian):

Apple:
13.1" MacBook
Core Duo 1.8GHz
512 Meg RAM
60 Gig HD
CD burner / DVD reader
$1250 (Canadian)

Then I go to Dell:
14.1" Dell 640 (I'd actually prefer the smaller 13.1")
Core Duo 1.8GHz
1 Gig RAM
120 Gig HD
CD Burner / DVD burner
$999 !!! (Canadian)

Why Apple, WHY the $250 difference for a less capable machine?

I don't mind paying a slight Mac premium, but to get a MacBook with 1 Gig RAM, 120 Gig HD, and DVD burner is $1869 (Canadian)! Compared to $999 for the Dell. I want the Mac -- but I can't help but feel I'd be getting ripped.

Please update the line of MacBooks with more realistic prices immediately.

Sincere thanks for great products, but currently tough pricing!

boxlight

Ever finance a car, just to find out that your friend leased the same car and pays $150 less per month? Well, just wait until the 48 month lease/finance period is up. Once your payments have finished, you'll drive the car for another 7 years and your TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP will be much lower than your friend's, who is still paying for his next lease.

Seriously, total cost of ownership bewteen these machines is going to be no contest, if historical patterns are to believed. My 5 year old G3 iBook is still going strong. I can't tell you how many Dull notebooks I've seen kick the bucket in those 5 years (most of them in the first 2). Now, personal anecdotes make for bad evidence, but I think if you spend any time on computer forums, you'll see that the Mac will last you much longer than that Dell.

Add to that the fact that you'll be using MacOS X on the Mac (which is priceless, IMHO), you wont care about the $250. Yes, Apple should do more to aggresively price its machines, but not at the cost of quality. Apple chooses not to compete in the ultra-competitive low end (no $599 or $399 laptops from Apple), and for good reason; those machines will be cheaper now, but will need to be replaced in a much shorter length of time.

Total cost of ownership.