Apple please listen; I want a MacBook but Dell is cheaper & better equipped

[Killyp]

You know it's really irritating when people just measure laptops by their basic specs. It's like saying "Oh I don't want to buy the BMW because for £2k less I can get a tackier, shorter life, uglier car with the same sized engine". It just DOESN'T HAPPEN!

 

[yellow]

Countdown to pointless ramblings following this post.....

 

[clevin]

Seriously, total cost of ownership bewteen these machines is going to be no contest, if historical patterns are to believed. My 5 year old G3 iBook is still going strong. I can't tell you how many Dull notebooks I've seen kick the bucket in those 5 years (most of them in the first 2). Now, personal anecdotes make for bad evidence, but I think if you spend any time on computer forums, you'll see that the Mac will last you much longer than that Dell.

Add to that the fact that you'll be using MacOS X on the Mac (which is priceless, IMHO), you wont care about the $250. Yes, Apple should do more to aggresively price its machines, but not at the cost of quality. Apple chooses not to compete in the ultra-competitive low end (no $599 or $399 laptops from Apple), and for good reason; those machines will be cheaper now, but will need to be replaced in a much shorter length of time.

Total cost of ownership.

I admire your "old mac model", but to do a fact check, just read those posts about discoloration and RSS, My Compaq has been 4 years with me, never need to worry about it shutdown suddenly, your can be sure today's apple is not the apple you know, in this market, apple running ads everywhere asking people to switch, but unfortunately they don't have the capacity to deliver the qualified products. Apple has already been losing its quality, w/o price involved anyway.
Total ownership? plz understand the development of PC, the fact is mac cost more, and not really that "problem free" as you might think.

You know it's really irritating when people just measure laptops by their basic specs. It's like saying "Oh I don't want to buy the BMW because for £2k less I can get a tackier, shorter life, uglier car with the same sized engine". It just DOESN'T HAPPEN!

You know its apple who asking people to switch, I don't remember Apple says anything in the ads about "you need to be rich" "buying us over PC is like buying R$R over a Toyota." get real, you don't know anything about a pc would die in 4 years. wanna prove it? show me data

 

[MacManTexas56]

Dell lovers/defenders.

I posted a poll just for you.
Let me know what you have and why you would rather have a PC than a Mac.
And most importantly why you spend so much time here.

another fanboy polll ehhhhh.

here's ur thing u were looking for earlier....REFURB VS. REFURB....

Refurbished MacBook Pro, 17-inch, 2.16GHz Intel Core Duo
17-inch widescreen display (1680x1050 resolution)
1GB (single SODIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
120GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in iSight Camera
Front Row and Apple Remote
Learn More
• Save 15% off the original price
Original price: $2,799.00
Your price: $2,399.00


DELL 17INCH LAPTOP EQUIVALENT TO 17INCH MBP
Inspiron 9400/E1705
(System Identifier: F5D0JF61)

* Inspiron 9400/E1705 Notebook: Intel Core Duo Processor T2500 (2GHz/667MHz FSB)
* Genuine Windows XP Pro

System Price : $1,319.00

Operating System
Genuine Windows XP ProMemory
2 GB DDR2 SDRAM 677MHz (2 DIMMs)Hard Disk Drive
100 GB EIDE Hard Drive (7200 RPM)Video
256MB ATI MOBILITY RADEON X1400 HyperMemorySoftware Upgrade
Trend Micro PC-cillin with AntiVirus and Spyware removal 36-months
Sound Blaster Audigy ADVANCED HD Audio Software EditionCertified Refurbished
Certified RefurbishedBase
Inspiron 9400/E1705 Notebook: Intel Core Duo Processor T2500 (2GHz/667MHz FSB)Media Bay
8X DVD +/- RW w/dbl layer write capabilityNetwork Interface Card
Intel Pro Wireless 3945
Bluetooth Wireless CardNoteBook Screen
17 inch UltraSharp Wide Screen UXGA Notebook Screen
Adobe Acrobat 6.0 Reader
Power DVD Software
MEDIADIRECT Two Software
Music Match 10.1 Software
Microsoft Works 8.5
6 Cell Primary Battery


hmmmm $1,080 difference.....you could buy the dell AND a refurb'd macbook and still have some cash leftover....

here's the link to the dell again for those that don't believe the price....

http://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnline...emId=F5D0JF61&~lt=popup&c=us&l=en&s=dfh&cs=22

 

[Graeme A]

will someone please lock or wasteland this POS?

Dells price points are for the masses (in the most part). They sell you a $399 machine but you dont get it to your door, only the nearest USPS or something, they will then gouge you for every basic thing you would also need but, hey your base price is only $399! Awesome...

Apple have serious price point at the better end of the market. It stops them being returned because you actually think about your purchase; it stops them being sold by cowboys in Walmart; it's a conscious decision. IBM/Lenovo also made this type of decision but you see it reflected in the build quality and lifespan of the product.

Brands make these decisions all the time, where do I want my product in the market?
High end - fewer customers but higher margin, serious customers who want a better class of product. I control the distribution and the customer perception - this could be anything from a pen (Mont Blanc -once upon a time...), to a car (BMW/Porsche/Lexus) to a computer (Sun/Apple).

Low end - Sell lots but make pennies, have issues with taking returns, giving discounts to retailers to take my product. When Walmart and Best Buy are responsible for promoting my brand, I would worry.

I'm taking some of this from Rich Dad books but, damn it's true! Apple are different, just the basic CPU is the same as the Dells of the world. If a Dell rocks your boat then go for it but, don't come crying if the thing falls apart.

 

[yojitani]

another fanboy polll ehhhhh.

here's ur thing u were looking for earlier....REFURB VS. REFURB....

hmmmm $1,080 difference.....the dell may actually have better specs too.

Well, PC's do sell for much less once used. This is unfair, but true all the same. Refurb doesn't make a difference. This is just a reflection of the market..
However, I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who says that Apple products ain't what they used to be. I think my macbook is fantastic, but compared to the old G3 clamshells, the quality doesn't really compare. Those were tough machines.
Apple is following the same path as any company that expands: products get crappier, workmanship shoddier. While I don't agree with the OP, I think that, practically speaking, if Apple wants to maintain its image - the image is included in the price of every apple product - then they have to solve the laptop problems they've been having much more quickly. If they don't, the expectation that Apple compete with Dell will be much higher. I'm sure they are aware of this though - they seem to have a great marketing machine (though I'm not sure about those annoying commercials).

 

[MacManTexas56]

will someone please lock or wasteland this POS?

Dells price points are for the masses (in the most part). They sell you a $399 machine but you dont get it to your door, only the nearest USPS or something, they will then gouge you for every basic thing you would also need but, hey your base price is only $399! Awesome...

Apple are different, just the basic CPU is the same as the Dells of the world. If a Dell rocks your boat then go for it but, don't come crying if the thing falls apart.

why should this be locked? i don't have a problem with it staying open.......i guess you're another person that can't respond to the prices i post.....

oh and just bc dell starts to ship to USPS doesn't mean they don't ship to ur house. if you knew anything u wouldn't just assume that's all they do. I live 3 hours from austin, tx where dell is and i get all my stuff the very next day delivered to my door....so yeah you're wrong.

what's apple's base price? $1099 for their entry level notebook? kinda ridiculous since it's considered entry level. with those price points it's going to be very difficult for apple to ever get anywhere.

and yeah....everything internal is the same...the only difference is the case and the OS...that's all. a price difference of $1,080 for the same parts? hmmmm overpriced much?

 

[MacManTexas56]

Well, PC's do sell for much less once used. This is unfair, but true all the same. Refurb doesn't make a difference. This is just a reflection of the market..
However, I wholeheartedly agree with the poster who says that Apple products ain't what they used to be. I think my macbook is fantastic, but compared to the old G3 clamshells, the quality doesn't really compare. Those were tough machines.
Apple is following the same path as any company that expands: products get crappier, workmanship shoddier. While I don't agree with the OP, I think that, practically speaking, if Apple wants to maintain its image - the image is included in the price of every apple product - then they have to solve the laptop problems they've been having much more quickly. If they don't, the expectation that Apple compete with Dell will be much higher. I'm sure they are aware of this though - they seem to have a great marketing machine (though I'm not sure about those annoying commercials).

i understand what ur saying.....but if u look at it this way. no matter what kind of problems people have with new MB'S and MBP'S fanboys will never acknowledge it. a great example is when dell had 4 million batteries recalled. all the fanboys made threads about how crappy dell is and see they do suck.!!>!>! hmmmm eventhough the battery was sony! Then a few weeks pass and BOOM apple announces the battery recall. suddenly people quit bashing on dell and become quiet and don't say a word. you don't hear about fanboys talking about the quality of the MB's and the staining and heat issues etc... but if a dell has one problem like a battery recall the fanboys come out and flame on dell. fanboy much?

 

[shecky]

* snip *

the fact that you seem to think its just about price is exactly the reason why you should be using a windows machine and not a mac.

 

[clevin]

the fact that you seem to think its just about price is exactly the reason why you should be using a windows machine and not a mac.

its clearly pretty/stable OS vs cheap price and larger number of softwares and games.

 

[Graeme A]

why should this be locked? i don't have a problem with it staying open.......i guess you're another person that can't respond to the prices i post.....

You just gave the reason. I DO NOT CARE about the prices of Dell vs Apple. I made a decision to move to Apple when the 17" Powerbook cost about umpty fricking billion times what a Dell costs. A lot of people here don't care about the $250 differential either, a lot of it is down to what do I want to do with this, how long do I want to do it before I have to replace it, etc.

what's apple's base price? $1099 for their entry level notebook? kinda ridiculous since it's considered entry level. with those price points it's going to be very difficult for apple to ever get anywhere.

and yeah....everything internal is the same...the only difference is the case and the OS...that's all. a price difference of $1,080 for the same parts? hmmmm overpriced much?

This is Apple's entry level price, not the markets. I would rather spend the $1000 extra and get a hassle free system than penny pinch. I "saved" recently by replacing a stolen laptop with a PC and lost 2 days due to a virus/trojan/WTF and the thing needed to be restored. During the week, that 2 days would cost me $1000 of non-billable time. Apple has never given me that kind of hassle in the 3 years that I have used them.

Look at things from a cost versus price perspective. I think Zig Ziglar does a great example of this with a kids bike story. Spend now, save later... Save it now, keep on spending and spending and spending. hell as a basic, it costs you $60/yr just to keep the thing from being attacked by all and sundry, not so with Apple.

 

[MacManTexas56]

the fact that you seem to think its just about price is exactly the reason why you should be using a windows machine and not a mac.

haha oh really? price doesn't matter whatsoever!!! that's true fanboism if price doesn't matter. Price isn't a big factor for me.......but for something like a notebook. Why spend DOUBLE if not more to get something that is of similar size and same specs? I don't mind paying money for a mac mini and an imac bc those can't be duplicated and they are very unique machines. But i don't need MAC OS X that bad on the road to where i want to spend more than DOUBLE the price for a machine with the same specs....

 

[shecky]

haha oh really?

yes, really.

price doesn't matter whatsoever!!! that's true fanboism if price doesn't matter.

show me where i said that.

Why spend DOUBLE if not more to get something that is of similar size and same specs?

because specs are irrelevant. the experience isn't. but you do not want to hear that, you want to hear that its a cut and dry comparison of part A and part A. it isn't. as soon as you decide to give some credence to that then you will stop being a troll and start having a discussion; but i don't think you want a discussion, i think you just want to be right.

 

[wyatt23]

sometimes price DOES pay a huge factor.

i'd would 100% rather be using an apple over any computer i could buy. i suggest apple to other people. i've let friends use my computer for extended amounts of time to try apple out. but the thing is, some people don't want to or CAN'T spend the money on an apple system. my friend had to buy a dell because it was way cheaper than apple. talking technology and less headaches over price to some people doesn't make sense.

i can't afford to buy a mac mini solo and then add periphials, when i could buy a dell and get the same things plus a 19" LCD for cheaper. [granted i simply love OSX and i love the design]

price points matter to alot of people, and my saying you shouldn't own an apple because you care about price is borderline retarded.

i care about apple first and price second, i really do, but my wallet doesn't always agree with me

 

[clevin]

you want to hear that its a cut and dry comparison of part A and part A. it isn't.

in many cases, its simply a dry comparison, a game need certain spec, a software need certain platform, its just that simple, they won't budge for a "experience". there is nothing wrong to acknowledge mac's problems.

 

[wyatt23]

Also...

also, entry level price points should not be argued. entry level computers are computer that are stripped down and don't have all the bells and whistles.

apples only come with bells and whistles. so upgrade the dell entry levels and the price points should agree more.

then go at it again and try the same with the mac pros. things may change your mind about dells inexpensive prices.

 

[MacManTexas56]

yes, really.



show me where i said that.



because specs are irrelevant. the experience isn't. but you do not want to hear that, you want to hear that its a cut and dry comparison of part A and part A. it isn't. as soon as you decide to give some credence to that then you will stop being a troll and start having a discussion; but i don't think you want a discussion, i think you just want to be right.

if specs were irrelevant there wouldn't be intel....there would be the slow g4 sitting in the powerbooks and ibooks. Look at the intel roadmap and tell me it's not about specs. the apple experience isn't worth DOUBLE the price.......you are a good example of why apple will never grow market share. You're caught up in there whole marketing scheme. Consumers spend money on products. A vast majority of consumers look at the price....they don't just look at the "EXPERIENCE". If they did look for that apple's market share would be well above 4%.

 

[Graeme A]

also, entry level price points should not be argued. entry level computers are computer that are stripped down and don't have all the bells and whistles.

apples only come with bells and whistles. so upgrade the dell entry levels and the price points should agree more.

then go at it again and try the same with the mac pros. things may change your mind about dells inexpensive prices.

What's that I hear? Why it's the whisper of reason... Speak up dear boy, speak up... Make yourself heard...

 

[MacManTexas56]

sometimes price DOES pay a huge factor.

i'd would 100% rather be using an apple over any computer i could buy. i suggest apple to other people. i've let friends use my computer for extended amounts of time to try apple out. but the thing is, some people don't want to or CAN'T spend the money on an apple system. my friend had to buy a dell because it was way cheaper than apple. talking technology and less headaches over price to some people doesn't make sense.

i can't afford to buy a mac mini solo and then add periphials, when i could buy a dell and get the same things plus a 19" LCD for cheaper. [granted i simply love OSX and i love the design]

price points matter to alot of people, and my saying you shouldn't own an apple because you care about price is borderline retarded.

i care about apple first and price second, i really do, but my wallet doesn't always agree with me

that's what i'm saying...but the fanboys won't get that in their head. I know tons of people that see my mac mini and imac and are like WOWWWW i really want one...how much did you pay. I then tell them $799 and $1499 and they are like UMMM ARE YOU SERIOUS? NEVERMIND i don't want one. Every person i've ever helped get a computer I got them a pc bc they simply don't either know enough to want to get a mac bc the basic pc will work or they don't want to spend all that money getting a mac. Price is a huge factor as a computer is a big purchase for a lot of people.

 

[shecky]

if specs were irrelevant there wouldn't be intel....there would be the slow g4 sitting in the powerbooks and ibooks. Look at the intel roadmap and tell me it's not about specs. the apple experience isn't worth DOUBLE the price.......you are a good example of why apple will never grow market share. You're caught up in there whole marketing scheme. Consumers spend money on products. A vast majority of consumers look at the price....they don't just look at the "EXPERIENCE". If they did look for that apple's market share would be well above 4%.

and you are caught up in the fallacy of Price Ignorance. all you care about or want to hear is about price, to the point of being ignoring all other arguments.

as such, you are a troll, and as such, you not worth the time to even argue with.

so, you are absolutely correct in all of your assessments. apple is overpriced, uncompetitive garbage that nobody should buy because it is more expensive than a dell.

congrats. i hope your correctness makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

 

[clevin]

and you are caught up in the fallacy of Price Ignorance. all you care about or want to hear is about price, to the point of being ignoring all other arguments.

as such, you are a troll, and as such, you not worth the time to even argue with.

so, you are absolutely correct in all of your assessments. apple is overpriced, uncompetitive garbage that nobody should buy because it is more expensive than a dell.

congrats. i hope your correctness makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

u are seriously over-reacted, he might said mac are over-priced, but i don't think he said macs are crap, on the contrary, its somebody else who kept saying pcs are crap and fall apart within several years.

 

[suneohair]

if specs were irrelevant there wouldn't be intel....there would be the slow g4 sitting in the powerbooks and ibooks. Look at the intel roadmap and tell me it's not about specs. the apple experience isn't worth DOUBLE the price.......you are a good example of why apple will never grow market share. You're caught up in there whole marketing scheme. Consumers spend money on products. A vast majority of consumers look at the price....they don't just look at the "EXPERIENCE". If they did look for that apple's market share would be well above 4%.

Yes price is a factor. I think we all know that. However how much heavier is the other system? How much more bulky? Does it have OS X? iLife? How long will that computer last? How long will that computer last before it succumbs to spyware and viruses?

How much added expense to protect the computer? How much added expense to get software equivelent to iLife?

Now if those things arent important to you then you have other options. I the post you guys are ragging on was telling you his opinion. Why HE buys Apple. I dont think he is trying to apply a general rule for all Apple users.

You guys are acknowledging the experience, but yes the factor of price is there. Someone may look at Apple and say "wow I like that, ouch costs too much." There are tons of people who say they can't afford a Mac.

This isn't true anymore, look at the iMac and the Mac Mini even the Macbook. Those are affordable comparable systems. They may be slightly more expensive but I think you need to account for the software, windows is cheap for computer makers.

Things like the MBP and the MP are for a specific market. Which consists of people who can and will pay $2700 for a notebook. As such you should be fair and compare the MBP to a Dell precision notebook, like the M65. The price doesn't shoot up for nothing folks.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1211&s=biz M65 (15")
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1311&s=biz M90 (17")

If you want to write off Macs as too expensive help yourself, but you need to get past the inital cost and look at the total cost, and take into account the design details because they add something to package.

 

[clevin]

If you want to write off Macs as too expensive help yourself, but you need to get past the inital cost and look at the total cost, and take into account the design details because they add something to package.

you are not the first person to bring up this "total ownership" stuff, my answer is same: "you don't know the freeware world of pc". those "virus" stuff is ill-informed at best, and those "how long the computers last" are weak with no data support.

 

[MacManTexas56]

Yes price is a factor. I think we all know that. However how much heavier is the other system? How much more bulky? Does it have OS X? iLife? How long will that computer last? How long will that computer last before it succumbs to spyware and viruses?

How much added expense to protect the computer? How much added expense to get software equivelent to iLife?

Now if those things arent important to you then you have other options. I the post you guys are ragging on was telling you his opinion. Why HE buys Apple. I dont think he is trying to apply a general rule for all Apple users.

You guys are acknowledging the experience, but yes the factor of price is there. Someone may look at Apple and say "wow I like that, ouch costs too much." There are tons of people who say they can't afford a Mac.

This isn't true anymore, look at the iMac and the Mac Mini even the Macbook. Those are affordable comparable systems. They may be slightly more expensive but I think you need to account for the software, windows is cheap for computer makers.

Things like the MBP and the MP are for a specific market. Which consists of people who can and will pay $2700 for a notebook. As such you should be fair and compare the MBP to a Dell precision notebook, like the M65. The price doesn't shoot up for nothing folks.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=555&l=en&oc=MLB1211&s=biz

If you want to write off Macs as too expensive help yourself, but you need to get past the inital cost and look at the total cost, and take into account the design details because they add something to package.

and i understand what you're talking about. You bring up your points nicely UNLIKE the other fanboys on here. All they say is dell sucks go buy one and leave us alone. They don't respond to anything and just talk about this experience. i'm not writing them off as too expensive...as you can see i have some money in apple right now. I have more apple machines then i do PC. It's the fact about how the fanboys act is what annoys me the most. But for a lot of people having a laptop that is an inch thick isn't a big factor. They are looking at price. My point is.....if apple will want to grow and take over market share it's not going to happen at the current prices. If someone came to me and asked me to recommend them a laptop and they had a budget of say $750...they can't afford a mac that "starts" at $1099. so for apple to get anywhere they need to lessen some specs on an entry level notebook bc if they don't change it will continue to always be a niche market.

 

[wyatt23]

that's what i'm saying...but the fanboys won't get that in their head. I know tons of people that see my mac mini and imac and are like WOWWWW i really want one...how much did you pay. I then tell them $799 and $1499 and they are like UMMM ARE YOU SERIOUS? NEVERMIND i don't want one. Every person i've ever helped get a computer I got them a pc bc they simply don't either know enough to want to get a mac bc the basic pc will work or they don't want to spend all that money getting a mac. Price is a huge factor as a computer is a big purchase for a lot of people.

ok well, all discussion aside, you're only discreditting anything you say when you use the word fanboy. you bring out the emotiong in the, umm, fanboys .

but, my mom for instance, uses the computer. i go away to school, then i have to come back to fix every thing regardless of defender, spybot, mcafee. she doesn't know how to uninstall things. networking for her is miserable.

my uncle, same thing. i have pc's and mac's. i left my pc on, with firewall, with anti virus.. left it on over the weekend [i needed some torrent and downlaods to finish], went away... came back and had THREE viruses... THREE! didn't do ANYTHING my door was locked.

so, when it comes time to get my mom a computer, i will say, spend the extra on the iMac. spend the extra on the mini. becasue 1. it makes their lives easier. 2. it more importantly, makes my life easier.

and i don't think when your friends got their dells and you went over to their place, you had to hold yourself back from wanting one. NO! obviously, your iMac was sexier and 10x more awesome then their run of the mill dell.

that's something you pay for. and until now, it was immeasurable. tomorrow all future apple's will contain the disclaimer.....

"Warning: Prices may seem inflated, but that it because apple has a strict policy of making all computers and workstations contain at least 150% more awesome then the next leading cometitor."

please... don't compare prices. compare what you want, what you need, and HOW MUCH YOU NEED IT! I NEED!