Apple Poised to Become World's Top-Selling PC Vendor with Tablets Included

[JAT]

Ok. Go. Make your case. Why?

Shoot, I was going to highlight "like" in that post for sarcastic emphasis. I don't actually think the marketing world should remove them from "PC" consideration.

But the case is: My phone is more capable than my wife's netbook. (other than keyboard size)

 

[divinox]

And yeah... what i dont get is. Steve Jobs. The house-god around here. The man. The big J himself. What did he say?

People will move away from PCs to tablets and new forms of devices. First, you cheered! Jobs was right, Jobs was right. Now you want to go all Ballmer on him, and say: Its a PC, its just a different form factor...


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(And) Heck LTD (above was directed at everyone), you even have aspects of it in your signature. And yet you sit here and troll every "ipad is a pc"-thread with your rants :- )

Are you agreeing with Ballmer, or Jobs on this? Was Jobs wrong, and Ballmer right? Really?

 

[firewood]

And thus, we can conclude, there is a discrepancy between the official definition of the term, and the interpreted, real-life, meaning of the same.

Exactly. Just because kids and uneducated adults call a dolphin a fish does not make it a fish. It's a mammal, just like Steve Balmer.

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The PC has undergone at least two major transitions. The first generation were text based, keyboard driven devices.

Uh... no.

The first personal computer had lights and switches. Altair. Imsai.

If you had money you got an optional serial/current loop S-100 card, and hooked up a noisy teletype with its paper tape punch/reader.

The Apple II, with its built-in keyboard and its video display of text, was an amazing advance over the first generation of personal computers in those early days.

 

[divinox]

Exactly. Just because kids and uneducated adults call a dolphin a fish does not make it a fish.

Actually, the inferred conclusion is closer to the opposite. The dolphin is not a fish by official definition, but by real-life interpretation (if that is indeed the way it is - thank god, we're not there quite yet ;- D). While i understand your point, the analogy is poorly chosen. While animal classifications are set in non-ambiguous and set in stone, concepts like the PC are not. The PC is best understood in relation to the "non-PC" back then. We "all" knew computers - this (the PC) was something else.

This is the point i tried to make a few posts back. Todays equivalent of the PC is the post-pc tablet (read: device). However, that too is best understood in relation. Difference now is, the "related-to" is no longer the non-PC mainframes of the past - its the PCs of today.

As we understand the device through its relation to what it is not (i.e. PC), we cannot call it a PC. The relation between PC and PC is equivalence. I really dont think we want to imply that is the case at hand. At least i dont. And sure as hell Steve didnt either. In fact, as much as I dont particularly like the device (the ipad) myself, i think calling it a PC is doing it injustice. Its not. Its (in ways) better. Its niche. Tailored to specifities, rather than cast for generalities. Where is the shame in acknowledging that?

 

[GQB]

Last night I wanted to download Rihanna's new album via a torrent site on my iPad 2, I couldn't as its not Jailbroken.

Out the box an iPad is not more a PC than a PSP or Nintendo DS.

</stevejobs>

So your definition of a 'computer' is 'a device that allows me to steal'?

 

[Gold89]

Uh... no.

The first personal computer had lights and switches. Altair. Imsai.

If you had money you got an optional serial/current loop S-100 card, and hooked up a noisy teletype with its paper tape punch/reader.

The Apple II, with its built-in keyboard and its video display of text, was an amazing advance over the first generation of personal computers in those early days.

But how much of a PC was the Altair really though? In that it was useful for day to day tasks.

 

[GQB]

But you have only described how consumers use Personal Computers at home, you have not at all considered the use of PCs in the workplace (HPs largest market), where many additional tasks are required and performed. Many of which are not yet available

Such as?

 

[kdarling]

Déjà vu

We already had names for a lot of this stuff over a decade ago:

Back then, there were webpads, slates and tablets. A webpad basically did what it sounds like. Tablets were flat portable touchscreen PCs with keyboards. Slates were tablets without keyboards.

We also had a name for devices like the iPad... not as versatile as a PC, but above a webpad... meant for mass consumer usage without training:

"Appliance Computer"

In other words, something so ubiquitous and easy to use that it's more like an appliance (toaster, TV, fridge) than a PC.

 

[firewood]

But you have only described how consumers use Personal Computers at home, you have not at all considered the use of PCs in the workplace (HPs largest market), where many additional tasks are required and performed. Many of which are not yet available on tablets.

Perhaps this statistic should be divided into two categories. PCs for personal use and PCs for business use.

Except that I know of lots of businesses converting from Windows desktops to VMs in the data center plus thin clients. Lots of security, IT and hardware cost savings. It's a multi-billion dollar business (HP is in it in a big way). Guess the most popular thin client currently to replace company laptops/desktops in the enterprise?

iPad.

And that's because it's not just a thin client. It's dual use. An iPad runs a web browser (which is a personal computing application) into the corporate web apps.

Yes, there are is a small percentage of power users who are developers, artists, traders, and guys in corner offices who like to show off their expensive dual monitor set up. But that's not where the vast majority of business personal computers go. And rumor is that the corner-office wannabees now want to be seen carrying around iPads instead of laptops.

 

[Fukui]

So your definition of a 'computer' is 'a device that allows me to steal'?

Yep, that sounds about right...

 

[firewood]

But how much of a PC was the Altair really though?

Enough for Gates and Allen to start Micro-Soft. Enough to make Byte shop profitable enough to put in the first order for a board made by a couple long haired college dropouts... both named Steve.

The rest is history.

 

[divinox]

Except that I know of lots of businesses converting from Windows desktops to VMs in the data center plus thin clients. Lots of security, IT and hardware cost savings. It's a multi-billion dollar business (HP is in it in a big way). Guess the most popular thin client currently to replace company laptops/desktops in the enterprise?

iPad.

And that's because it's not just a thin client. It's dual use. An iPad runs a web browser (which is a personal computing application) into the corporate web apps.

Yes, there are is a small percentage of power users who are developers, artists, traders, and guys in corner offices who like to show off their expensive dual monitor set up. But that's not where the vast majority of business personal computers go. And rumor is that the corner-office wannabees now want to be seen carrying around iPads instead of laptops.

While i acknowledge the trend, thin clients - to my knowledge - are yet to break 10m, compared with what on the pc side? Well (well) over ten times that. And, last time i checked, the most popular thin client was still HP. The way you framed your question is quite silly, given the state of things.

(Also, the following conclusion is false. Every non laptop/desktop (i.e. tablet) ipad is competing with in this highly niche market is just as capable of "dual use"... and wtf are you on about web browsers? since when were thin clients restricted from having those?).


p.s. i made some interviews today in the single largest employeer in the particular region i am currently in. More or less every single room i looked into had dual monitors. A 10" screen hardly cuts it in the office space of today.

Hardly expensive either... not that it matters. Cost of an extra screen is peanuts compared to the wage of said person over the monitors life-span. Improve efficiency with like 1% and you paid it off like ten times.

 

[gorgeousninja]

Captain's log; Stardate 2543

Kirk: Spock what are you doing?
Spock: I am analysing the atmospheric contents of the Alpha Quadrant.
Kirk: No, I mean what are you doing with that thing in your hand?
Spock: This is my Tri-corder Captain, as I said I am ana...
Kirk: No, Spock no, I have been studying MacRumors Forums from 2011, and they tell me that we don't have computers.
Spock: With the greatest respect Captain, this technology is far beyond anything available at that time.
Kirk: That is irrelevant Spock. It is not a computer. We need computers
Spock: Captain, are you seriously trying to suggest that 'computers' can only be those big, ugly, beige, boxes that sat gathering dust under desks?
Kirk: That's precisely it Spock, hopefully with 'Dell' stamped on the side.
Spock: Dell went bust in 2014 Captain and were acquired by Apple.
Kirk: Apple? I knew it! They started the move away from ugly beige boxes. MacRumors informed me that their devices are simply Chocolate Rice Krispies riding Vespa's, ...or something..
Spock: Doctor MaCoy please come to the bridge the Captain seems to be losing grip on reality.
Kirk: They're not computers!!!!

 

[28monkeys]

Who buy HP nowadays?

 

[divinox]

Kirk: Spock what are you doing?
Spock: I am analysing the atmospheric contents of the Alpha Quadrant.
Kirk: No, I mean what are you doing with that thing in your hand?
Spock: This is my Tri-corder Captain, as I said I am ana...
Kirk: No, Spock no, I have been studying MacRumors Forums from 2011, and they tell me that we don't have computers.
Spock: With the greatest respect Captain, this technology is far beyond anything available at that time.
Kirk: That is irrelevant Spock. It is not a computer. We need computers
Spock: Captain, are you seriously trying to suggest that 'computers' can only be those big, ugly, beige, boxes that sat gathering dust under desks?
Kirk: That's precisely it Spock, hopefully with 'Dell' stamped on the side.
Spock: Dell went bust in 2014 Captain and were acquired by Apple.
Kirk: Apple? I knew it! They started the move away from ugly beige boxes. MacRumors informed me that their devices are simply Chocolate Rice Krispies riding Vespa's, ...or something..
Spock: Doctor MaCoy please come to the bridge the Captain seems to be losing grip on reality.
Kirk: They're not computers!!!!

s/computer/PC and you might have a point. otherwise, no.

p.s. tell spock to have a look at the tricorder app for the palm pilot. that'll trip his brain for a bit.

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Who buy HP nowadays?

lots of people, or perhaps... businesses. regardless, they sell millions.

 

[thenerdal]

Tablets are not PC's. Tablets are a computer, but not a PC. Tablets have their own market, PC's have their own market.

 

[iEvolution]

Tablets are not PC's. Tablets are a computer, but not a PC. Tablets have their own market, PC's have their own market.

I second this notion. They are a separate market.

 

[thenerdal]

I second this notion. They are a separate market.

Yes, and to people who say "What about laptops and netbooks?" Those are PC's too.

PC's have two categories. Stationary and Mobile.

Stationary consists of a Workstation, Desktop Computer, Gaming Computer, All-in-One's, Nettops, and Home Theater PC's.

Mobile consisters of Laptops, DTR's, Netbooks, Tablet PC's*, UMPC's, and Pocket PC's.

*=Tablet PC's are different from Computer Tablets that we see now a days. Tablet PC's have keyboards and a touch screen display. Computer tablets don't have keyboards and just a touch screen display by itself.

 

[gorgeousninja]

s/computer/PC and you might have a point. otherwise, no.

Shuts eyes, fingers in ear: La, la, la iPads are not computers, iPads are not computers. I know, and only I know what a computer is. iPads are not computers....
Netbooks are computers!
The iPad will never, ever, be popular when there are netbooks.

The iPad will fail! You cannot write emails on it, you cannot print from it. You cannot add third party software. You cannot use it for work, you cannot make music on it. It cannot play games. You cannot use it to make or play movies. You cannot use it to access the internet, and you cannot add any third party peripherals.

Oh errrm wait a minute....

Opens eyes: Hey where's everybody gone?....

 

[firewood]

Tablets are not PC's. Tablets are a computer, but not a PC. Tablets have their own market, PC's have their own market.

That type of delusion is right out of the book "The Innovators Dilemma". A company thinks that some rapidly growing new market has nothing to do with the older market that they are good in. Until their allegedly separate market segment shrinks and they go out of business. In reality it was really one big market fulfilling similar customer wants and chasing the same consumer or business dollar.

In some 3rd world regions of the world, smartphones have already displaced and surpassed bigger PCs as the dominant personal computing platform among the population. iOS devices are now making the same inroads in some higher per-capita income regions.

 

[KnightWRX]

Shuts eyes, fingers in ear: La, la, la iPads are not computers, iPads are not computers. I know, and only I know what a computer is. iPads are not computers....

He didn't say iPads are not computers. Quite the contrary, I think divinox agrees that they are. He, just like me, doesn't believe they belong in the same segment as laptops and desktops.

There are many segments in the much larger computer market. Tablets deserve their own, separate segment.

 

[thenerdal]

That type of delusion is right out of the book "The Innovators Dilemma". A company thinks that some rapidly growing new market has nothing to do with the older market that they are good in. Until their allegedly separate market segment shrinks and they go out of business. In reality it was really one big market fulfilling similar customer wants and chasing the same consumer or business dollar.

In some 3rd world regions of the world, smartphones have already displaced and surpassed bigger PCs as the dominant personal computing platform among the population. iOS devices are now making the same inroads in some higher per-capita income regions.

They are different markets.

 

[*LTD*]

Tablets are not PC's. Tablets are a computer, but not a PC. Tablets have their own market, PC's have their own market.

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Semantics are killing this thread. LOL

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s/computer/PC and you might have a point. otherwise, no.

p.s. tell spock to have a look at the tricorder app for the palm pilot. that'll trip his brain for a bit.

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lots of people, or perhaps... businesses. regardless, they sell millions.

Not as much as they used to, evidently . . .

http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/11/21/hp.q3.2011.results.held.down.by.split.talk.ipad/

HP revenue, profit drop in Q3 as home PC sales flatten out

“HP reported dour results for its third quarter of the year that showed the weight both of its own indecision and pressure on its core PC business,” Electronista reports. “Its revenue was down three percent to $32.1 billion, but its profit dropped a steep 91 percent, down to just $200 million. Gains in its services and software were more than offset by drops in the PC and printer businesses, each of which saw their own revenue drop two and 10 percent respectively.”

“The PC group was weighed down most by home buyers shying away. Its work PC revenue was up five points, but customers were steering away from home PCs and led to a nine-point drop in revenue for the divisions that made the Pavilion and Envy lines,” Electronista reports. “HP wouldn’t give shipment numbers, although it said the volume had grown just two percent over a year ago, with desktops up five percent and notebooks advancing just one point. It cost about $1.5 billion to shut down the webOS hardware group, HP said, and a total of $3.3 billion in overall expenses.”

Electronista reports, “HP expected its profit to recover but, in a sign of reduced confidence, decided it would now strip out most of its outlook and give only its profit expectations in terms of earnings per share. Under this view, it would see profit bounce back from about 12 cents per share to between 61 to 64 cents, but it wouldn’t say whether this would come with declining revenue.”

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The winds of change . . .

 

[MacAudioPro]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0_1 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/9A405)

I bet you have < 10 shares, "stockholder".

Many of us do own shares but don't brag about it on random online forums.

Come on, how long have you been reading this forum? All the "regulars" here are BIG TIME AAPL shareholders who all bought at $7 a share and are millionaires!

 

[thenerdal]

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Semantics are killing this thread. LOL

There's different markets of Computers.

Smartphones, Tablets, and PC's are the main ones.

PC's have different markets as well. Desktops, Laptops and Netbooks.

A PC Vendor makes PC's. Tablets are not PC's. Computers yes, PC's no.

If you think the iPad is a PC, then Why not add in the iPod Touch? It's a smaller version of the iPad? Why not add the iPhone? It's a smaller version of an iPad with phone capabilities. They are running the same software.

If you do, you might as well throw in all the smartphone devices and call them PC's.

Why stop there? Symbian phones can run applications. They have CPUs, GPUs, RAM.

BREAKING NEWS: NOKIA BECOMES TOP PC VENDOR


This is why the iPad isn't a PC.