Apple Poised to Become World's Top-Selling PC Vendor with Tablets Included

[Zunjine]

So then most smartphones should be considered a PC then.

See - it's a slippery slope.

Actually, yes. Most smartphones are PCs.

I don't think this is a slipperly slope at all. The reason to define things is to understand what we're talking about. If we insist on defining things by arbitrary things like input methods or whether you can download stuff from a particular website then we end up only adding to confusion.

A thing is a PC if it is used as a PC is used. It doesn't matter what shape it is, what colour or what it is made of. If you took the guts out of a normal desktop PC and built them into the frame of a sofa and interacted with it by jumping up and down on big peddles it would still be a PC. An odd sort of PC but a PC none the less.

 

[*LTD*]

So then most smartphones should be considered a PC then.

Depends what the market thinks. It doesn't necessarily have to make technical sense to you and me.

 

[HelveticaRoman]

Because it's a phone

That is not its main use nowadays.


If quacks like a duck, it's an iPhone, and it's time to get up.

 

[cube]

Actually, yes. Most smartphones are PCs.

I don't think this is a slipperly slope at all. The reason to define things is to understand what we're talking about. If we insist on defining things by arbitrary things like input methods or whether you can download stuff from a particular website then we end up only adding to confusion.

A thing is a PC if it is used as a PC is used. It doesn't matter what shape it is, what colour or what it is made of. If you took the guts out of a normal desktop PC and built them into the frame of a sofa and interacted with it by jumping up and down on big peddles it would still be a PC. An odd sort of PC but a PC none the less.

OK, so you're saying tablets and smartphones are not PCs.

 

[firewood]

I spend my days running pivot tables in excel, drilling into hundreds of thousands of data sets to analyze and provide usable outputs. At this point in time, my iPad, iPhone 4S, and HP Touchpad do not have this ability, let alone screen size.

I know several large businesses that now do this with iPads. They use the iPads to RDP into a datacenter with desktops running on really fast big VMs. Faster spreadsheet updates than typical office desktops. Costs less per user. Less niosy fans in the office. VPN+3G allows employees to view data securly while on the road. And the excel database is far more secure locked in the data center.

 

[Zunjine]

But you have only described how consumers use Personal Computers at home, you have not at all considered the use of PCs in the workplace (HPs largest market), where many additional tasks are required and performed. Many of which are not yet available on tablets.

Perhaps this statistic should be divided into two categories. PCs for personal use and PCs for business use.

Granted. That said, don't know that many of these tasks are not possible on a tablet. Most work PCs are used for typing documents, creating presentations and accessing data. You can do all of these things on an iPad.

The point is that if we insist on defining something only by what the minority do with that thing then we're putting the cart before the horse.

 

[KnightWRX]

Once you accept the fact that at least 50% or more of the regular posters on MacRumors are committed Apple haters it becomes easier to understand.

50% of posters on MacRumors are Apple haters ? Care to point some out, my numbers are much lower than that.

 

[Zunjine]

OK, so you're saying tablets and smartphones are not PCs.

No. I'm saying they are. Where did you get the alternate idea from? Perhaps I've been unclear.

 

[The Great Boony]

And iPhones, iPod Touchs, any smartphone, etc.

Do we have to count them on the personal computer statistics?

Why would you?

Would you class the iPad as a smartphone?

 

[cube]

I know several large businesses that now do this with iPads. They use the iPads to RDP into a datacenter with desktops running on really fast big VMs. Faster spreadsheet updates than typical office desktops. Costs less per user. Less niosy fans in the office. VPN+3G allows employees to view data securly while on the road. And the excel database is far more secure locked in the data center.

When was a terminal or thin client considered a PC?

 

[samcraig]

You (and many others) are WAY over thinking this.

Actually - no. I'm not overthinking. I'm just replying to the contradiction in terms. Personally I don't care what anyone calls any of the devices I use.

I call my iPhone a phone (not a smartphone) because it makes calls and that - among other things - is what I do with it.

I call my desktop/laptop computer my computer because that's what I use when I need to be productive based on my use case (a lot of video editing and heavy content creation) that requires particular software and computing power.

I can my iPad my iPad because that's just what it is - it's an iPad. I use it for media consumption and some light lifting - but nothing near of what I can do on my desktop/laptop.

I don't care whether someone calls all three or just one a computer. Different devices for different tasks.

 

[cube]

No. I'm saying they are. Where did you get the alternate idea from? Perhaps I've been unclear.

You said they are PCs if they are used as PCs. They can't be used as PCs.

 

[HelveticaRoman]

Any syllogists out there who could put this argument to bed?

 

[gnasher729]

For me a computer is a device which allows you to write/compile code for other computers/devices.

Although you *can* compile computer code on a device with the iPad's hardware, Apple doesn't allow it ... for obviously good reasons.

So in 1984, the Macintosh wasn't a computer. According to you. I wouldn't be surprised if a few machines in the Top 500 Supercomputer list wouldn't fit your definition either, especially the ones at the very top.

 

[subsonix]

When was a terminal or thin client considered a PC?

It's neither a VT100 or a thin client, it's not a PC either if you use the term to not mean a computer for personal use, which of course it is.

 

[cube]

It's neither a VT100 or a thin client, it's not a PC either if you use the term to not mean a computer for personal use.

The example used it for work not as a PC but as a thin client.

 

[subsonix]

The example used it for work not as a PC but as a thin client.

You can use both a PC (IBM PC compatible) or a workstation or any other device capable of connecting to a cloud service or main frame, that does not make them thin clients.

 

[Zunjine]

You said they are PCs if they are used as PCs. They can't be used as PCs.

No. I believe they can be and are used as PCs are used.

Point is that if I have a Macbook pro but only use the alarm clock function it isn't a PC. It's an alarm clock. So defintion depends on use.

If defintion depends on use then an iPad is a PC if it is used in the same way a PC is used. We can call these uses Personal Computing tasks. Web browsing, online shopping, playing games, social networking, email and viewing/listening to media account for the vast majority of what most people use their PCs for. They are the same things people use their iPads for. So an iPad is a PC.

 

[cube]

No. I believe they can be and are used as PCs are used.

Point is that if I have a Macbook pro but only use the alarm clock function it isn't a PC. It's an alarm clock. So defintion depends on use.

If defintion depends on use then an iPad is a PC if it is used in the same way a PC is used. We can call these uses Personal Computing tasks. Web browsing, online shopping, playing games, social networking, email and viewing/listening to media account for the vast majority of what most people use their PCs for. They are the same things people use their iPads for. So an iPad is a PC.

Most people can use the iPad only for simple stuff. It is not a PC.

 

[nagromme]

Call it a “computer” or call it “something people use for tasks that they would otherwise use a computer for.”

The terminology choice doesn’t change the impact of the iPad on its users, on Apple, on HP, and on all the companies scrambling to clone it.

Nobody’s saying the iPad is the ONLY kind of computer. And nobody’s doubting that iPad purchases sometimes replace conventional PC purchases: either the old PC gets retired, or, more likely, the old PC hangs on as a companion machine instead of being replaced by a new PC. Either way, fewer new PCs are being bought because of the iPad.

With iOS 5 no longer needing a computer, this trend will only get stronger.

 

[cube]

You can use both a PC (IBM PC compatible) or a workstation or any other device capable of connecting to a cloud service or main frame, that does not make them thin clients.

What I mean is that that example by itself does not classify it as a PC.

 

[Zunjine]

Most people can use the iPad only for simple stuff. It is not a PC.

Most people can use their PCs only for simple stuff. So a PC is not a PC?

 

[nagromme]

Call it a “computer” or call it “something people use for tasks that they would otherwise use a computer for.”

The terminology choice doesn’t change the impact of the iPad on its users, on Apple, on HP, and on all the companies scrambling to clone it.

Nobody’s saying the iPad is the ONLY kind of computer. And nobody’s doubting that iPad purchases sometimes replace conventional PC purchases: either the old PC gets retired, or, more likely, the old PC hangs on as a companion machine instead of being replaced by a new PC. Either way, fewer new PCs are being bought because of the iPad.

With iOS 5 no longer needing a computer, this trend will only get stronger.

Most people can use the iPad only for simple stuff. It is not a PC.

Most people use a PC only for simple stuff.

Some people use a PC for complex stuff. Some people use an iPad for complex stuff. (If Microsoft made a Windows tablet and someone made a whole music album on it, painted the album art, edited a video, wrote the liner notes, managed their blog from it, tracked their sales in a spreadsheet, updated their concert calendar, then took a break to watch movies and play online multiplayer games—all of which you can do well with an iPad—would that not be a PC just because it’s less suitable for certain other things, like dual-monitor C# programming?)

If you mean people do complex stuff “less often” on an iPad, then I guess a lot of laptops aren’t PCs, either. How many hours a week of non-simple tasks are required to meet the definition of a PC?

In any case, even if you call it a “PC alternative,” that doesn’t change what it’s doing to PC companies. It’s like saying truck-makers don’t compete against mini-van makers because a mini-van isn’t a “real” truck. The definition doesn’t much matter.

Fear not, PCs will be around for a long time. Just like laptops didn’t kill off towers. But the need for towers has been greatly reduced, and now the need for mouse-based PCs has started to be reduced as well.

 

[cube]

Most people can use their PCs only for simple stuff. So a PC is not a PC?

Many complex things than can be done on a PC cannot be done on an iPad.

 

[firewood]

For me a computer is a device which allows you to write/compile code for other computers/devices.

Although you *can* compile computer code on a device with the iPad's hardware, Apple doesn't allow it ... for obviously good reasons.

Apple allows it. Users can write JavaScript on an iPad. And the latest Safari includes a JIT compiler for JavaScript.

And Developers can run cross-compilers on an iPad.