Apple Privacy Chief: North Dakota Bill 'Threatens to Destroy the iPhone as You Know It'

[jdawgnoonan]

One massive problem though: developers will flee Apples app store because it's "cheaper" and pretty soon, my regular iphone is useless because I have no apps to choose from.

Meanwhile, all these developers are creating the worlds biggest unregulated street market of app stores and anarchy ensues. The big players quickly create their own app stores that host only their apps. Epic comes along with their app store and developers-- sick of all the nonsense on the open market-- move to the Epic store. Ten years from now, politicians are calling for the breakup of the Epic store because it's a monopoly on Epic stores.

I'm not really trying to be funny here because all of this could happen, and probably will. The only thing I even remotely support is the ability to run other operating systems, like Android.

1) You don't believe Apple could enforce rules for app stores that they allowed in iOS? I am quite sure that Apple would not be forced to allow alternate app stores onto iOS without being able to set some standards. 2) Most users would continue to use the Apple App Store just like most users on Android still use the Play store even though there are other app stores. So the developers would not flee or if they did flee it would be to their own peril. On Android there are advantages to buying apps through the Google Play store and I am sure that there would also be advantages to buying apps in the Apple App Store on iOS if there were other stores.

I really don't believe that the inclusion of alternate app stores would make much difference to the average user experience on iOS at all.

 

[Ethosik]

The consumers aren't asking for this but someone is driving it hard.
I found myself, only yesterday after cleaning a trojan from a Mac, explaining to its owner why the App Store is essential.
You need a gateway to the software you install on your device that gives you confidence that what you are installing doesn't come with more than what you expect. Either malware or spyware that wants to profile you and sell your data.
I, as an iPhone user, don't want my iPhone cracked open to all.
If Apple is forced to do this I hope they implement it as an option to the user when they setup their new device.
Just how many will say "no thanks" I predict to be the same as how many have also choosen "no" to "track me".
That's democracy.

Politics have become purchasable changes. Similar things happened when people tried to put jail time for having copyrighted music playing on Twitch. Looking at the politician's donators, was some large music companies.

 

[ericwn]

yeah as a premium customer i will flee to a trash store.
according to you I should not buy Porsche and Gucci anymore but cheap trash.

Slightly cheaper doesn’t need to be labelled trash. The drama is certainly not necessary. Developers would potentially move to store alternatives that leave more money for them on the table.

 

[Ethosik]

You already have a choice on PC with Steam, GOG, Origin, Epic, etc. and it hasn't been an issue.

Yes it has. When Borderlands 3 came out, who had it as an exclusive? What about Metro Exodus? Satisfactory? Some games had pages in Steam but they pulled them when they had exclusivity deals with Epic.

 

[Ethosik]

How does other people having the option to sideload apps affect you in any way? Has the fact that iPhones can theoretically be Jailbroken ever changed your experience at all?

I might have bought an Android phone, but I'd think people here would understand there are many other advantages to iOS.

Just take a look at what happened with Steam and Epic. Exclusivity deals.

 

[tranceme]

I don't get it. If you don't like the way Apple is handling their product and services. Don't buy them. I know plenty of people without iPhones or Macs. Magically, they are living just fine. I want my iPhone to be half the cost. But...

 

[Ethosik]

If Apple is really about privacy and the iPhone we know it get over your greed and lower fees and payment restrictions massively.

I always opposed that Apple charges for the store. I always saw me as customer already paying the premium to have a phone with store (age) haha.

Unless the money is needed for the infrastructure in place to offer such privacy. Which has been stated to be around 20-25 percent. And it is perfectly reasonable for a company to want to make a profit, so 30 percent is just fine.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Do you want to have “Windows like numbers” of security risks on your iPhone? Like to do security scans with your trust anti-malware program? Hey, remember to keep those virus definitions fresh and that power bank ready, because if you screw up your “ApplePay cards will be skimmed” or you’ll be out of power since that antivirus background process is eating your battery life like crazy

I don't think you understand encryption or sandboxing.

 

[Ethosik]

Nobody is forcing you to use the hypothetical toggle that would unlock the ability to side load or use 3rd party app stores. Your phone / use case would be unaffected.

Do you tell truck manufacturers that you never use 4L so therefore they shouldn't put 4L in as an option for others?

Take a look at PC gaming and how that got handled with Epic exclusivity and Steam. Also, with your argument nobody is FORCING you to use ANY apps, so it shouldn't matter to you anyway.

 

[Ethosik]

Yes, yes, I have heard this one before, but why do we accept it on our phones but not on our computers?

Write your own OS, create your own phone, create your own social network, create your own web hosting service, create your own data center, create your own power company, create your own internet.

Where does it end? Create your own....country?

Because, unlike computers, I need my phone to be able to call 911 at any given notice and not deal with Ransomware notice when I need my phone the most. Therefore, it needs MORE security than standard computers do. Why is this SO HARD to understand people?

 

[michaelsviews]

Apples store/platform Apples rules, same goes with Google. You can spin this in so many ways. How many times are we going to go down this road?

 

[Ethosik]

A lot of crying here. There is no reason that alternative app stores would necessarily impact people who choose not to install them. Apple could maintain the same level of security as they already have, and allow alternative app stores. In fact, Apple could even require alternative app stores follow basic guidelines to ensure that those app stores were also equally secure. Apple would still be developing the APIs and the OS. I don't see why people go so all in on defending a corporation. Some people here treat this like a religion.

Yes it does. Look at Epic Games Store and Steam on PC gaming. Exclusivity deals that were not available on Steam. "Want Photoshop, well you only have ONE choice". But yeah, it won't impact people huh?

Just like having only one App Store shouldn't impact you, just don't use apps! If I want Photoshop, I would theoretically NEED the Adobe Store.

 

[Ethosik]

Good. Hopefully this bill (and many more like it) become law.

I, not Apple own my phone.

I, not Apple, should be able to decide what I put on my phone.

I, not Apple, should be able to choose what payment method I want to use.

It doesn't look like this bill has the votes sadly to pass but it's the tip of the iceberg. The day is coming when the App Store monopoly is going away and that day can't come soon enough.

I, not Epic, owns my PC, yet they purchased exclusivity deals for games that were ONLY available on the Epic Store.

I fight this hard because, I can guarantee it this is what Epic wants to do on iOS too. Create their own store and get exclusivity deals. JUST like Steam. And it WILL impact us. I am not fighting this because of some religious attitude towards Apple, and I really don't appreciate people here saying that is why we disagree with this type of change - not directed towards you specifically, just the several people here that have stated so.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Yes it does. Look at Epic Games Store and Steam on PC gaming. Exclusivity deals that were not available on Steam. "Want Photoshop, well you only have ONE choice". But yeah, it won't impact people huh?

Just like having only one App Store shouldn't impact you, just don't use apps! If I want Photoshop, I would theoretically NEED the Adobe Store.

I have no sympathy for your argument. If Epic did that it would be their loss because many people would simply choose not to use their apps.

 

[Ethosik]

That's how it's been with the Mac for the 30+ years I've been using it. And Windows.

If you having a problem with an app, you contact the app developer, not Apple. It wouldn't/shouldn't be any different with an iPhone.

Great. Until you need to call 911 and your phone has Ramsomware notice on it. I think phones should have a LITTLE more security than computers, don't you think so?

 

[warp9]

1) You don't believe Apple could enforce rules for app stores that they allowed in iOS? I am quite sure that Apple would not be forced to allow alternate app stores onto iOS without being able to set some standards. 2) Most users would continue to use the Apple App Store just like most users on Android still use the Play store even though there are other app stores. So the developers would not flee or if they did flee it would be to their own peril. On Android there are advantages to buying apps through the Google Play store and I am sure that there would also be advantages to buying apps in the Apple App Store on iOS if there were other stores.

I really don't believe that the inclusion of alternate app stores would make much difference to the average user experience on iOS at all.

That all sounds reasonable buts it's also all speculation, just like my post was. However, my choice of keeping the status quo doesn't introduce new risk.

If it was up for popular vote and the users choose multiple app stores, so be it, but it's not really the kind of thing that can easily be walked back if it goes sideways.

 

[Ethosik]

I have no sympathy for your argument. If Epic did that it would be their loss because many people would simply choose not to use their apps.

"Having different stores/places to get apps won't impact you guys"
"Exclusivity deals are a thing"
"Well just don't use the apps"

Uhhh that does not make sense AT ALL. If I want to use an app that Epic has exclusivity rights to, I am FORCED to use the Epic Store.

You are not FORCED to use any apps, so why do you care you are FORCED to use the Apple App Store then?

 

[jdawgnoonan]

Great. Until you need to call 911 and your phone has Ramsomware notice on it. I think phones should have a LITTLE more security than computers, don't you think so?

This is a tad hyperbolic. There are more protections in place on iOS and even on Android for permissions escalation than a PC has and your scenario is far fetched.

 

[Ethosik]

Hard disagree. Every time I ponder buying a piece of Mac software I check to see if it's available on the independent developer's site as a direct purchase. That way 100% of my money goes to them, versus Apple taking a huge cut. I was using a Mac for a long long time before the App Store even existed and I am very grateful it's still open enough of a platform that Apple doesn't have a stranglehold over every single aspect of it. In fact, some things I use regularly aren't even allowed on the App Store, like Audio Hijack from Rogue Amoeba. They're a very reputable developer with longstanding ties to the Mac but their software has capabilities that exceed what App Store apps are allowed to do.

The iPhone was locked down from the very beginning, and that's why we're seeing moves lately for Apple to open up the platform a bit: choosing default apps, for one. I hope the trend continues.

Except with Family Sharing, my family members have access to Affinity Photo and Designer BECAUSE I got them on the App Store. And it is just easy when I get my new computer to go to the Apple App Store and click "download, download, download" dozens of times instead of logging in to dozens of websites and downloading separately.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

"Having different stores/places to get apps won't impact you guys"
"Exclusivity deals are a thing"
"Well just don't use the apps"

Uhhh that does not make sense AT ALL. If I want to use an app that Epic has exclusivity rights to, I am FORCED to use the Epic Store.

You are not FORCED to use any apps, so why do you care you are FORCED to use the Apple App Store then?

Ah, so in your opinion it is all about you and not about the developers at all.

 

[Ethosik]

This is a tad hyperbolic. There are more protections in place on iOS and even on Android for permissions escalation than a PC has and your scenario is far fetched.

No its not. I have seen people rushing to get their taxes done with Tubo Tax because they waited too long and got presented with Ransomware screens.

 

[Ethosik]

Ah, so in your opinion it is all about you and not about the developers at all.

Uhhh Monopoly argument/laws/regulations is based on "anti-consumer" not "anti-developer". Purchasing exclusivity rights and causing confusion is anti-consumer.

 

[Naraxus]

For me, I want the option to sideload an app or use a store other than the App Store. Would I use them? I don't know iah. It's been a while since I've downloaded any app from either of Apple's stores.

Could there be problems with allowing differing payment methods? Multiple app stores? Oh sure there could be, just like on MacOS, but at least with MacOS I have the option to use differing stores/payment methods

 

[code-m]

Apples store/platform Apples rules, same goes with Google. You can spin this in so many ways. How many times are we going to go down this road?

A very colony type mindset. I believe the present system is ripe for an overhaul. Why do we need separate App and Game stores for Apple/Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Sony/Samsung/etc. Would it not be better to have a one stop shop Universal and Open AppStore where App and Game developers submit and post apps and opt to have it verified or not and have the end-user make a choice. With more flexibility for transaction processing, platform migration and discovery and inter-developer cooperation and exchange.

Consider this for example, if I like Apple hardware design and OS version I purchase the device and some apps and games, however let’s say a few generations or maybe the next an Android competitor has a better design and OS, now I have to repurchase the apps and games I already purchased on one platform because there is not platform migration presently available. Some developers may offer a discount but that is goodwill on their part. Now if there was one store and a customer decided to migrate platforms then the developer in agreement with the said users can transfer an iOS app or game license to say AndroidOS, Microsoft, Sony, etc and make their app or game title available in one place as an advertisement to what is available. Rather than the present where one gets isolated and entrenched into said ecosystem.

Innovation though Partnership! Is what is much needed.

 

[Ethosik]

Actually, it is your problem too: unless you happen to never share information, or files, or photos, or anything with anyone. If they become compromised, so do you.

Yep. I have an isolated system that is on a different network when clients send me files because I don't want my main $4,000 workstation infected by a client's file.