Apple Privacy Chief: North Dakota Bill 'Threatens to Destroy the iPhone as You Know It'

[Jimmdean]

You have no clue what you're talking about. Work devices are locked down with MDM so you can't even install things from Apple app store. And, no one has ever gotten malware from Steam, GOG, Epic, Origin, etc.

just fyi - yes work devices do get necessary Apps installed. those packages come from the App Store - the MDM just controls if and when a device gets it.

And I'm pretty sure all those environments you mentioned have had their fair share of issues in the past.

But you're kind of on the right track - once one store goes they all will go. Each company will end up having their own store for their own stuff to maximize their profit. It's certainly not as easy for the consumer, but somebody will be happy.

I have to wonder if it would actually lead to a company like Epic making more money or less. Right now the iPhone/IOS is a pretty good system. You'd have to compare the money they make on it to what they make on everything else and see what's what. They certainly think there is more money to be made, but if you make iPhone more like Android that is not a certainty.

 

[pearvsapple]

Bad idea. Apple needs to have a fully locked down platform to prevent their dumb sheep from downloading the wrong apps.

Like a handicap, they need Apple to hold their hands from start to finish.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Allow any customer to jailbrake with agreement they void their hardware and software warranty, including iOS updates, access to Apple services & App Store.

Come now. I'm actually 100% on bored with voiding the warranty, but also cutting off updates is just stupidly punitive. It doesn't cost Apple extra or increase their support costs. Are those iPhones also not able to use the COVID tracking feature, which benefits literally all of society?

Furthermore, last I checked, Apple was trying to increase their services revenue. Don't you think blocking customers from subscribing to Apple TV and Apple Music, and buying more iCloud storage—all of which are even available on non-Apple platforms—would be a little counter-productive?

 

[Rob_2811]

So you are running Windows without any security software and you install third party software from unknown sources?

You can forget Mac with its tiny market share. Now it’s the big boy business time...

How did you get 'Unknown Sources' from 'Non App Store Software'?

 

[B_ctrim]

So we will be able to have another store in the Xbox also?

 

[ghanwani]

They aren't doing this for the consumer. There is big money behind this.

 

[bobbie424242]

"Apple Chief Privacy Engineer Erik Neuenschwander spoke out against the bill, saying that it "threatens to destroy the iPhone as you know it" by requiring changes that would "undermine the privacy, security, safety, and performance" of the iPhone."

Apparently not a concern on the Mac. Hello double standards...
Apple just want 100% control and all your ****ing dollars, data and more. That's it.

 

[warp9]

I agree with you, but it may be happening faster than you'd like to think. Have you tried using a 32 bit app on a recent version of macOS?

Side story that may be relevant - We own a late 2015 27" iMac. We bought the fastest processor and graphics option we could get at the time. We also bought the SSD upgrade, which was certainly more expensive than the usual hard drive. But, it was our choice and it's worked fine. However... Over the past few months, routine EFIChecks performed by the operating system left notifications that our "Firmware is out of date! Contact Apple!" We did. Long story short, everybody up the ladder in the service organization said that we were running the latest firmware. Nobody had ever heard of such a problem. Then why the notification? Must be something we did here, perhaps our memory was bad. Fast forward a few months. Somebody figured out the problem. It seems that one firmware revision balked when there was an SSD in place. No idea why. So, now newer firmware versions won't install. But, if you take out the SSD and install a drive onto the internal SATA bus, you can get firmware revisions, even once you reinstall the previous SSD and remove the SATA drive. Apple still tells people this isn't the case. The practical problem is that if you install Big Sur in this model and for some reason you need to Recover the operating system, it won't take you back to Big Sur recovery. That is, unless the firmware is up to date. It is apparently entirely a software/firmware upgrade installer problem. Yet, everybody in Apple denies this. The point of describing this sad tale is that Apple is moving in a different direction such as you describe and are quite willing to be deceptive about it all. (You can read more on this both in forums here and elsewhere.)

More and more lately, I think Apple is actually two different companies. The one that shuts down Facebook tracking and refuses to crack phones for the FBI, and the other one that's happy to screw over individual users if it's too much trouble for them to deal with. For example, The Sm'algyax app fiasco went nowhere until it became a PR problem for Apple. Even defective hardware requires a certain critical mass for them to acknowledge it.

 

[Scipster]

So we will be able to have another store in the Xbox also?

If Microsoft makes more than $10 million annually in gross receipts from their North Dakota Xbox Store, and you are located in North Dakota, then yes (assuming this bill becomes law).

 

[pacalis]

Apple is not monopoly. The apple store is not a monopoly. The proposal clearly harms consumers.

These confused politicians are promoting an idiotic theory in support of third-party profit margins. Don't they realize that, just like Epic, the third-parties will continue to charge consumers the same but for a nastier product?

 

[LV426]

I understand the need for secure app stores but shouldn’t we be able to install software as we please ? And I’m not speaking for pirated apps — that’s a whole other discussion.

Not if you want to rely on Apple support. If you install TrashMyCPU or SendAllMyMessagesToChina on a phone, Apple will not take kindly to that, as it messes up the phone’s operation.

 

[genovelle]

How does other people having the option to sideload apps affect you in any way? Has the fact that iPhones can theoretically be Jailbroken ever changed your experience at all?

I might have bought an Android phone, but I'd think people here would understand there are many other advantages to iOS.

It directly affects it because it requires changes to the os, looser standards and resources to keep outside apps working and from causing issues with other apps. There is an alternative called webapp that requires zero Apple aPIs

 

[Abazigal]

Please answer this VERY simple question: Why should your fear of what may happen if there are alternative app stores interfere with me wanting to put what I desire onto my phone? You won't be going to them anyhow so how would a third-party app store affect you in any way?

Because there is no way a third party App Store can coexist alongside the iOS App Store without something getting compromised along the way.

I have already given you an example, which you simply refuse to recognise. What’s stopping an influential developer like Facebook or google from spinning off their own App Store where they can house their own apps, free from the strict privacy controls that Apple imposes on their apps?

I can ask you the very same question. If you want alternate app stores, there’s android, and we have seen how that’s working for the vitality of the google okay Store, so why do you want to wish such a fate on the iOS App Store?

It’s like walking into a french restaurant and complaining that they don’t serve Japanese cuisine. You want what Apple won’t give and what (I believe) would simply be a net negative for the majority of the iOS user base.

Apple’s not the problem. You are.

 

[warp9]

1. Reduce App Store commission to 10% across the board, every app and in app purchase - fair & competitive.

That would be excessive. Look at this list of what developers pay to sell on various stores:

Google Play - 30%
Xbox - 30%
Playstation - 30%
Steam - 30%
Epic - 12%
Nintendo Switch - it's a secret
Microsoft Windows Store - 5% (mostly because no one want it)

EDIT: And to add some other industries:
movie distributors - 30%
retailers - up to 60%
Amazon Marketplace - 15%
eBay - 15%

What everyone on this list has in common is they are enablers of the product the creators want to sell. Without the middlemen, they would never see the light of day. If you want to eliminate the middlemen, that's fine but don't underestimate their value.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

And North Dakota doesn't require mask use, so...

 

[roar08]

Good guys trying to help people but being punished, while bad guys (FB, GOOG, et al.) destroying privacy out in the open, even appearing before congress ... but still up to the same old tricks, stock price as high as ever. Good is bad, bad is good ... or really anything goes as long as the right people get the right "benefits".

It echoes a little of the Microsoft antitrust lawsuit brought about by the government and MS's competitors ... not by consumers.

When money talks, truth walks.

 

[Rob_2811]

Because there is no way a third party App Store can coexist alongside the iOS App Store without something getting compromised along the way.

I have already given you an example, which you simply refuse to recognise. What’s stopping an influential developer like Facebook or google from spinning off their own App Store where they can house their own apps, free from the strict privacy controls that Apple imposes on their apps?

I can ask you the very same question. If you want alternate app stores, there’s android, and we have seen how that’s working for the vitality of the google okay Store, so why do you want to wish such a fate on the iOS App Store?

It’s like walking into a french restaurant and complaining that they don’t serve Japanese cuisine. You want what Apple won’t give and what (I believe) would simply be a net negative for the majority of the iOS user base.

Apple’s not the problem. You are.

When you say 'Strict privacy controls' you mean the labels on the App Store? The ones that Apple don't even verify?

 

[ksnell]

I had not thought about this as revenge for those but that actually makes sense. Once Apple went political some people were going to punch back.

I still don’t like it at all. I love the walled garden.

I would not have expected the love for the walled garden from someone! I think it has it's places. If you don't want Mom or Dad downloading a virus so to speak, that is fine. Limit the iPhone to the App Store. But there should be an "opt-in" like on the Mac to be able to run various types of apps (signed, unsigned, etc) with plenty of warnings of the dangers it can present along the way.

 

[ikramerica]

Fine. But those apps need to be completely walled with no access to anything on the phone.

 

[ikramerica]

Right!..don’t buy an iPhone if u don’t like the product....simple stuff here people. You can buy an Android as easy as an iphone

Yep. If you don’t like the product, don’t buy the product.

maybe the solution is for Apple to allow a third party OS to be installed? Would be up to others to create drivers and Apple is under no obligation to share touch id or face id or other security info.

 

[cantswim]

It's a dead bill.

 

[hatchettjack]

The AppStore is already full of useless apps! All we need is another AppStore🤮 I’d bet 90% of users have less than 10 apps installed!

 

[Cosmosent]

Bold Prediction Time:

Tim Cook will SOON see the wisdom of dropping Apple's cut to 5%, in an attempt to keep the App Store, & Apple's mobile devices, as is.

 

[mrat93]

That's how it's been with the Mac for the 30+ years I've been using it. And Windows.

If you having a problem with an app, you contact the app developer, not Apple. It wouldn't/shouldn't be any different with an iPhone.

apple good. choices bad.

 

[HerculesMulligan]

Eventually (and unfortunately) this might end up being a reality. One way I see Apple getting out of this is making it extremely clear when someone decides to go for the "open" route. Call it The New Jailbreak. Yeah sure give them the option, but if they accept it, Apple makes sure they are not responsible for the outcome.
And when people complain that the iPhone is trash, the first thing they will be asked is "Is it original or Jailbroken?", if yes, just ignore the clown.