Apple Proposing Settlements in Android Device Patent Disputes, Would Reap $5-15 Per Android Device

[vrDrew]

Unless the iOS notification center violates a patent, what exactly would Google be suing over? Copying ideas isn't necessarily against the law.

Google has filed a Patent Application for its notification center. I don't know if a Patent has been granted on it yet. I took a look at the Application at Google's site, which makes for some interesting reading - because basically they are trying to describe information popping up in little boxes around the perimeter of a display screen. Something thats been happening for quite some time now.

I honestly don't know if Google's application really is patent-worthy. Maybe someone with a lot more time on their hands can go through it and explain what, exactly, is special about it.

But even if it is granted a patent, it would most likely be something Apple (or any other competent software engineer) could easily work around.

If nothing else, it illustrates how difficult it is to describe software patents; how complicated it must be for the Patent Examiners who look at them; and why so many Software patents get invalidated in court. Which is not to say they ought to be outlawed.

 

[gnasher729]

I'm trying hard to be objective about this debate about the notification center. You don't need to be an attorney to read the patent that was written in 2009. Give a quick read of the summary and you will see that by law, Google has a strong case. It is true that a similar notification was available with jailbreak but I don't think that can be used in court.

Please. "A quick read of the summary" doesn't tell you anything whatsoever about a patent. You have to read the claims, you then have to understand the claim (and I know a guy with more than one patent to his name, and he doesn't understand the claims of his own patent, because it's the patent lawyers who wrote the claims), and then you have to compare these claims with what Apple is actually doing.

 

[divinox]

Good day for Redmond!

 

[BaldiMac]

Google has filed a Patent Application for its notification center. I don't know if a Patent has been granted on it yet. I took a look at the Application at Google's site, which makes for some interesting reading - because basically they are trying to describe information popping up in little boxes around the perimeter of a display screen. Something thats been happening for quite some time now.

I honestly don't know if Google's application really is patent-worthy. Maybe someone with a lot more time on their hands can go through it and explain what, exactly, is special about it.

But even if it is granted a patent, it would most likely be something Apple (or any other competent software engineer) could easily work around.

If nothing else, it illustrates how difficult it is to describe software patents; how complicated it must be for the Patent Examiners who look at them; and why so many Software patents get invalidated in court. Which is not to say they ought to be outlawed.

Yeah, we've been discussing that patent already. Apple doesn't even implement claim 1, and all the other claims are based on claim 1. I don't see how this patent affects Apple at all. I'd bet that they specifically worked around it.

 

[Konrad9]

I don't think so at all. I think Android is more than 2.5% stolen from Apple, especially when you look at what Android looked like before Apple unveiled the iPhone.

And as we all know, Apple has never borrowed/stolen any idea, ever.

 

[BaldiMac]

And as we all know, Apple has never borrowed/stolen any idea, ever.

Nice. Throwing down a strawman and a false equivalence argument in one motion.

 

[twoodcc]

if they have to settle, this sounds like a good deal for apple

 

[elppa]

$10 - $15 sounds reasonable as I think it is indisputable Android got a big leg up and a lot of ideas and inspiration from iPhone.

And it will put an end to the worst of the patent wars, which as others has pointed out.

When I try (in my own mind) to put the iPhone in context I always remember this slide:

As shocking as those look today (and they certainly wouldn't sell), it is not too far off how phones looked and (more importantly) worked at that moment in time: January 2007.

Whereas if you compared a PC from 2007 with a PC today, you wouldn't be surprised by either the hardware of software. They work pretty much the same.

People who deny that iPhone OS heavily influenced Android (and almost any smartphone/mobile OS since) are worse at distorting reality than Steve ever was. Things like notifications work are relatively minor detail in comparison.

But at the end of the day, any underlying sense of "right" and "wrong" in this discussion is irrelevant. All that matters is what the courts decide.

 

[vrDrew]

Apple offering a settlement to manufacturers using Android is essentially an offer to kill Android.

Two out of the three biggest Android manufacturers are already paying Microsoft a hefty per-handset fee. Add in another $10 per handset to Apple, and all of a sudden "free, open-source" Android doesn't look like such a good deal, especially compared to what they would pay for a license for Windows Phone 8.

Android's "customers" aren't, in this discussion, the end users. They are the hardware OEMs who have to defend themselves in expensive patent litigation. And lets be honest and say that most (say 80%) of the people who buy smartphones don't have any particular loyalty or affinity to Android per-se. They just want a smartphone that lets them browse the web; check e-mail and Facebook; and play Angry Birds.

Years of usage data and paid-download statistics suggest that Android just isn't that "sticky" - it doesn't build a value chain for users the way that truly successful, durable computer ecosystems do.

 

[MattInOz]

Last time I checked it most likely will violate a patent...
http://androidandme.com/2012/02/news/googles-notification-bar-patent-could-spell-trouble-for-apple/

The problem? It's still awaiting to be issued from 2009. Once its issued (currently no reason why it wouldn't be) then they will have a case.

If it's determined Apple copied it, they deserve to get taken to court. Thats exactly what everyone here has been saying about android after all...or does it not work both ways.

Wouldn't notifications in the Newton or indeed Palm OS prior art most of this patent in to non-existence?

 

[Cod3rror]

I hope they all settle on patents and start sharing them between each other.

That'll ignite some serious competition. One thing I really want on Android is the edge bounce-back effect that iOS has, Android has that glow effect which is terrible IMO, feels like you're running into a wall at 100mph.

 

[wikus]

Google has filed a Patent Application for its notification center. I don't know if a Patent has been granted on it yet. I took a look at the Application at Google's site, which makes for some interesting reading - because basically they are trying to describe information popping up in little boxes around the perimeter of a display screen.

I wish the members of Macrumors would realize how equally ridiculous it is for Apple to sue everyone over rounded corners and flat surfaced devices.

But whatever, Apple is definitely the new Microsoft; monopolies, constant frivolous lawsuits, immoral practices and bullying of partners and competitors.

 

[MacinDoc]

So, do Apple's offers to settle mean that:

1. Apple's lawyers don't think they can win this battle in court,

2. The cost of litigation is anticipated to exceed any monetary settlement Apple might win in court,

3. Apple wants to kill the low-end Android market so that devices competing with iOS for market share will also be similarly priced to the Apple's products,

4. Apple is concerned about lawsuits in which it is targeted, and simply wants better terms for cross-licensing, or

5. Apple has something new in the works that will make us forget all about current mobile OS design/features?

 

[wikus]

Wouldn't notifications in the Newton or indeed Palm OS prior art most of this patent in to non-existence?

Then the same can be said of 'Apples' (because its not theirs) grid based layout of applications. Literally every single phone before the iPhone had the same layout. Here's my first cell phone from 2004 with a grid layout of icons and apps;

Apple's premise about having 'rights' or 'patents' over this is total horsehockey.

 

[Glideslope]

if they have to settle, this sounds like a good deal for apple

If? This has been Apple's entire strategy. Litigate until you are in a position of strength, which Apple currently is.

Then license for $ per Android device. Sure it won't be $15, or even $5. But $3.00 of every Android device dumped at buy 1 get 3 free will do wonders for Apples Market Cap unless WIN8 Mobile Kills Android.

Apple wants to end the Android foreplay. WIN8 Mobile is good, and coming soon.

 

[KingJosh]

I view this moto google business as desperate attempts then Apple just slaps them back into where they already were. Down little boy... down

 

[MattInOz]

Then the same can be said of 'Apples' (because its not theirs) grid based layout of applications. Literally every single phone before the iPhone had the same layout. Here's my first cell phone from 2004 with a grid layout of icons and apps;

Image

Apple's premise about having 'rights' or 'patents' over this is total horsehockey.

I know and all these companies keep saying in public they want patent reform, that a whole bunch of these patents are just to stop submarine attack. Then why don't they create a patent pool to allow open access to the use of patents which do nothing to protect the unique value of the product.

A big enough pool would soon limit the value of all but the most innovative and interestingly implemented ideas.

 

[toluene]

And then Android will want something from Apple for use of the notification center and it will all work out that everyone will be owning parts of each others company and the technology world will coalesce into one giant mass which will unite under the Skynet banner and kill humanity.

Or lawyers will just get even richer. Whichever.

Like Rust, Lawyers Never Sleep

 

[MacinDoc]

I know and all these companies keep saying in public they want patent reform, that a whole bunch of these patents are just to stop submarine attack. Then why don't they create a patent pool to allow open access to the use of patents which do nothing to protect the unique value of the product.

A big enough pool would soon limit the value of all but the most innovative and interestingly implemented ideas.

That's what's supposed to happen with FRAND patent pools for technology required for industry-standard communication protocols.

Too bad nobody told Motorola about that before it asked Apple for exorbitant fees for such patents, leading to Apple's refusal to pay more than everyone else for the use of the same standard-essential patented technology.

 

[TMay]

I read somewhere (offline) recently an excellent article that Apple is wasting its time, money, and reputation by pursuing these patent wars (regardless of who is suing who)...and that Apple should just settle a few of them. In a settlement, nobody admits to wrongdoing...and if it costs $500 million in a settlement which takes 3 months, that's a lot faster and cheaper than years of legal fees (in tens of millions easily) and if Apple lost it would be much higher a price than a settlement.

Apple can't always be right...sure, protect yourself. But be realistic.

I read somewhere (online) that Apple has a whole lot of money with more on the way, so I'm guessing that legal fees are a rounding error.

More to the point, I believe that the trend is for Apple to win more than lose, and Apple's so called lack of innovation seems to be putting out even more Patents than ever.

Maybe it's just me, but I happen to find the Patent War entertaining; not that I would want a reality show of it.

 

[twoodcc]

If? This has been Apple's entire strategy. Litigate until you are in a position of strength, which Apple currently is.

Then license for $ per Android device. Sure it won't be $15, or even $5. But $3.00 of every Android device dumped at buy 1 get 3 free will do wonders for Apples Market Cap unless WIN8 Mobile Kills Android.

Apple wants to end the Android foreplay. WIN8 Mobile is good, and coming soon.

maybe so. hopefully apple will be able to cash in while android is still selling

 

[michelepri]

It's a good solution for Apple in the future

Since Android is the future and IOS, in my opinion, is reaching the peak of its popularity. Once IOS ends up like mac OS8, Apple will still be able to receive some cash.

 

[Winni]

Copying ideas isn't necessarily against the law.

Your beloved fruit logo company disagrees. At least as long as they believe that it is their idea that is being copied. But when they copy the some other company's ideas (which they do very often), it's of course all awesome, magical, beautiful, revolutionary.

Patents, especially software and design patents, are nonsense that needs to be abolished yesterday. Copyright laws are already more than the world needs. Except for lawyers and large corporations, nobody benefits from patent laws.

----------

Since Android is the future and IOS, in my opinion, is reaching the peak of its popularity. Once IOS ends up like mac OS8, Apple will still be able to receive some cash.

I agree with you, but it's way too much reality for macrumors.com. Statements like these don't make you friends here, no matter how true or insightful they are.

 

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah. Patent advice from a fansite.

True, but we are doing the same thing here.

If you think Apple's implementation infringes this patent then you'd have to accept this patent infringes webOS notifications

The sad part is that many have mentioned it before, but no one wants to read the facts and history behind mobile devices and the long LONG wait many nerds like myself had for the device that would meld Palm Pilot, iPod, cell phone, and internet communicator.

We've had those discussions since 2003, and we've had the features of the iPhone since 2004, the first all touch phone was a Linux open source project in Nov 2006. Apple hit it off right. The best OS for multitasking and notifications was WebOS hands down, but in traditional Palm fashion it was a month late and $4.65 million short.

I think posters need to read what some of uber nerds have to say from time to time.

People who deny that iPhone OS heavily influenced Android (and almost any smartphone/mobile OS since) are worse at distorting reality than Steve ever was. Things like notifications work are relatively minor detail in comparison.

But at the end of the day, any underlying sense of "right" and "wrong" in this discussion is irrelevant. All that matters is what the courts decide.

True about the courts, wrong about denying iPhone OS influenced Android.

1991 Psion Series III --> 1993 Apple Newton (which had NO Jobs influence) --> 1996 Nokia 9000 phone/PDA --> Palm 1000 and the rest is history. All of those devices have the same overall concept: screen of icons in a grid that you tap with finger/stylus/pointing device to activate. Three to four buttons at bottom to aid in navigation, etc. etc.

Also, notifications isn't a small thing at all. Swipe to unlock is small, notifications was something Apple's iOS was TERRIBLE at even by WebOS standards.

Since Android is the future and IOS, in my opinion, is reaching the peak of its popularity. Once IOS ends up like mac OS8, Apple will still be able to receive some cash.

I actually think Android is just another nice platform. I hope iOS ditches the ugly splattering of icons in your face constantly look for a more streamlined look or Apple gives us some more customization options for the stale homescreen, but I wouldn't say that it's second place.

 

[BaldiMac]

Your beloved fruit logo company disagrees.

Maybe you have that kind of relationship with the companies that you do business with, but please stop projecting onto me.

At least as long as they believe that it is their idea that is being copied. But when they copy the some other company's ideas (which they do very often), it's of course all awesome, magical, beautiful, revolutionary.

Which ignores the distinction that I made between copying unprotected ideas and stealing IP and creates a false equivalency.

----------

True, but we are doing the same thing here.

"We"? I was discussing the patent based on the patent claims, not a fansite's interpretation of those claims.