Apple Publishes Human Rights Policy Following Shareholder Pressure Over China Censorship

[Azrael9]

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Thank you for the post, Doctor.

Azrael.

 

[Williesleg]

Can we just ship Tim Apple off to China and smooth things out? He's so wonderful, surely he can succeed where others have failed.

 

[Digital Dude]

Apple just needs to exit China at this point.

...at this point? In my opinion, Apple has been wedded to profits over human rights for decades. For the price of Apple products, Apple could easily survive moving all production to America.

 

[crawfish963]

It’s a complex situation. Some would like Apple to exit China, but can’t explain how that would help Chinese, Taiwanese or Hong Kong citizens.

Apple has no obligation to “help” citizens of any nation. They are a capitalist company in the United States. And Apple’s promotion of LGBTQ+ rights and carbon neutrality really means nothing so long as they continue to profit off of human slavery and the oppression of people in those countries.

 

[iReality85]

Yeah but still somewhat different if you‘re posing as the ultimate corporate human rights poster child uploading ad after ad about how important privacy etc. were.

This is really the problem I have with all these companies, not just Apple.

I forget when it actually was, but I remember Cook giving a speech at a U.S. university, maybe 3-4 years ago, saying how Apple cares soooo much about diversity, and women, etc and basically chastizing that the U.S. can do better. Which is a fair point. However, Apple gladly operates in countries that straight up don't respect minorities, that don't respect women, and that don't respect religious rights.

This whole "respecting national laws" has become a shield for companies to deflect blame for operating in such countries. It's extremely hypocritical.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Apple has no obligation to “help” citizens of any nation. They are a capitalist company in the United States. And Apple’s promotion of LGBTQ+ rights and carbon neutrality really means nothing so long as they continue to profit off of human slavery and the oppression of people in those countries.

In a perfect world there would be no human rights violations or oppression.

Should no Chinese companies sell products in the US because of our human rights violations and oppression?

 

[macdos]

BBC should do a documentary about US jails and prisons instead. HRW describes the system as criminal, and the US has the highest criminal incarceration rate in the world.

Re-education camps? https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

As for China. Don't they have those 're-education' camps? The BBC did a documentary on it.

 

[macdos]

Pot calling the kettle… why don't you guys fix your own country before going after others? Like the death penalty. 0.7% in prison, 1.5% on parole. Children held in confinement. Racial injustice. Mass surveillance. Torture. Insane foreign policy.

 

[GeoStructural]

China have laws that breaches a persons human rights. Apple say's it will abide by national law. Money means more to Apple than a persons human rights because if otherwise Apple would have pulled out of China long ago due to it's continued human rights abuses of it's citizens.

You said it, the reason is FINANCIAL. Money is the most important thing for Apple, not human rights, not forced labor, not privacy nor any other PR **** they like to taunt.

One must stop and think why evil Google does not operate there but Apple does... a good saying in Spanish apply: “El mono sabe en qué palo trepa” (the monkey knows which trees to climb).

 

[mklnz]

Pot calling the kettle… why don't you guys fix your own country before going after others? Like the death penalty. 0.7% in prison, 1.5% on parole. Children held in confinement. Racial injustice. Mass surveillance. Torture. Insane foreign policy.

Yes you’re right, two wrongs do not make a right. However the difference here is at least you have the right to speak out, your post is the perfect example here, as opposed to in China where even constructive criticism is ruthlessly stamped out

 

[macdos]

Snowden tried that. He is now in Russia, wanted for virtually every crime there is a law for.

Assange tried that. He has been holed up in England for the past eight years, in slow transit to death row in America.

Neither of them received the Nobel peace prize. They would have if they had been Chinese.

Yes you’re right, two wrongs do not make a right. However the difference here is at least you have the right to speak out, your post is the perfect example here, as opposed to in China where even constructive criticism is ruthlessly stamped out

 

[Azrael9]

Snowden tried that. He is now in Russia, wanted for virtually every crime there is a law for.

Assange tried that. He has been holed up in England for the past eight years, in slow transit to death row in America.

Neither of them received the Nobel peace prize.

So much for freedom of speech.

Democracy works great if no one is paying attention to what you're saying.

Azrael.

 

[citysnaps]

The four-page document formalizes Apple's commitment to "respecting the human rights of everyone whose lives we touch," but concedes that the company is "required to comply with local laws."

This says it all...

What do you think would happen if Apple didn't comply with local laws?

 

[GeoStructural]

What do you think would happen if Apple didn't comply with local laws?

I’ll answer: Lots of Apple’s investment lost (they own a percentage on the factories and have paid for machinery and other stuffs). Research & Development and Product lines severely affected. Manufacturing would have to move to India, Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and a little bit to México maybe.

Shipping costs increased and border-customs of many countries involved now, manufacturing costs increased as well as yield rates, quality checks compromised, a lot of “starting over”...

Special products like teeny-tiny screws (millions of them, to micrometric precision) and glue that does not change in extremely cold and extremely hot situations could not be sourced cheaply, etc.

Shiny, lighting fast and power-efficient CPUs and GPUs for which Apple has received a lot of praise (like the A-line chips) are produced in China as well... they would have to migrate to Samsung or God-forbids: to Intel.

iPhone base price would be around $1400...

China will find reasons to blockade Apple’s products in Mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, etc... a commercial blow for Apple.

 

[ian87w]

...at this point? In my opinion, Apple has been wedded to profits over human rights for decades. For the price of Apple products, Apple could easily survive moving all production to America.

Such insightful comment. Care to at least share some insights as to how?

 

[citysnaps]

I’ll answer: Lots of Apple’s investment lost (they own a percentage on the factories and have paid for machinery and other stuffs). Research & Development and Product lines severely affected. Manufacturing would have to move to India, Taiwan, South Korea, Japan and a little bit to México maybe.

Shipping costs increased and customs of many countries involved now, manufacturing costs increased as well as yield rates, quality checks compromised, a lot of “starting over”...

Special products like teeny-tiny screws and glue that does not change in extremely cold and extremely hot situation could not be sourced cheeply, etc.

iPhone base price would be around $1400...

China will find reasons to blockade Apple’s products in Mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, etc... a commercial blow for Apple.

Though my question was a bit rhetorical, I completely agree with your assessment.

Where I was going was... doesn't Apple need to comply with local laws of any country the company does business in, including the United States?

 

[Cosmosent]

Is there any clause in there that says third-party iOS App Devs will get their Freedom of Speech back ?

 

[dogslobber]

If the USA were a country which respected human rights then maybe Apple could criticize China's human rights record openly without sounding hypocritical.

 

[mklnz]

Snowden tried that. He is now in Russia, wanted for virtually every crime there is a law for.

Assange tried that. He has been holed up in England for the past eight years, in slow transit to death row in America.

Neither of them received the Nobel peace prize. They would have if they had been Chinese.

Again, no country is perfect. But you’re talking about two examples here. Two wrongs do not make a right. But you can not deny there is a HUGE difference to the kind of information control the CCP does vs what happens in the west. I’ve lived in China for over 7 years and the information control is just getting worse and worse.

Just because two countries both committed problematic human right abuses does not mean the scale is the same. It’s not black and white, as in good vs evil. It’s all relative, and the CCP is on the wrong end of the scale here.

Proof of example: Why don’t you try going to China and start posting criticism on WeChat and Weibo and see how fast you’ll be picked up by police and interrogated if not deported.

 

[pedzsan]

Apple just needs to exit China at this point.

What I'd like to see instead (and it seems more practical) is a "report card" like Apple does to show how "green" each of its products are. I'd like to see where, by percentage, which countries contribute to Apple's products. It would be great if it could be one on a product by product basis like they do with the "green" / recycled / recyclable components of the various products. And put this as part of the keynote speech. i.e. make this concept as important as being "green".

 

[jlocker]

It is sad that China messed up a great opportunity to become a democratic nation on the world stage. When we opened are markets and pretty much gave them all our manufacturing, the United States hoped that this would lead them to a more democratic society. It just empowered the socialist communist party to even put more control over it's people and it's country. Now they are even a bigger military threat than they were 50 years ago. This is why placating counties never works, just like England did with Germany in WWII.

 

[Expos of 1969]

It is sad that China messed up a great opportunity to become a democratic nation on the world stage. When we opened are markets and pretty much gave them all our manufacturing, the United States hoped that this would lead them to a more democratic society. It just empowered the socialist communist party to even put more control over it's people and it's country. Now they are even a bigger military threat than they were 50 years ago. This is why placating counties never works, just like England did with Germany in WWII.

Yep, the West certainly got played by China. And lost millions of manufacturing jobs in the process.

 

[Expos of 1969]

Deleted

 

[DeepIn2U]

The four-page document formalizes Apple's commitment to "respecting the human rights of everyone whose lives we touch," but concedes that the company is "required to comply with local laws."

This says it all...

my worry is the vague perception in this article of “we follow the higher standard” leaves too much to interpretation.

 

[shigzeo]

This is the same Apple, whose pro-freedom stances limit what forums I can visit in apps such as telegram. Gosh.