Apple Publishes Human Rights Policy Following Shareholder Pressure Over China Censorship

[The Phazer]

Even outside of China the notion that Apple, one of the most censorious companies in the Western world has any commitment to free expression is literally hilarious.

Apple bans huge amounts of speech in the western world.

 

[I7guy]

Even outside of China the notion that Apple, one of the most censorious companies in the Western world has any commitment to free expression is literally hilarious.

Apple bans huge amounts of speech in the western world.

So does MacRumors. What’s your point? The notion that free speech or expression exists outside of the first amendment is false.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Please leave the EU as well, while you're at it. We're fed up with you and your surveillance.

Under my administration, Ukraine would not be in the EU given the damage it has done to all nations - look at Greece, Bulgaria etc.. Once this president is gone, I will be elected as I have 350 percent of the West Ukrainian vote. Just that East Ukraine is not considered "real" Ukraine and never will be as it is too connected with Russia, sadly. I want all of Ukraine as Ukrainian only.. but that will take a major revolution to do.

 

[ericwn]

China have laws that breaches a persons human rights. Apple say's it will abide by national law. Money means more to Apple than a persons human rights because if otherwise Apple would have pulled out of China long ago due to it's continued human rights abuses of it's citizens.

If human rights were a consideration they would never have gone there, just like all the other western companies that produce there.

 

[ericwn]

Lots of corporations did business with Nazi Germany. Probably from the side of the Allies. A delve into history will likely reveal a dirty laundry list.

As for China. Don't they have those 're-education' camps? The BBC did a documentary on it.

Azrael.

They do . Biggest prison camp for religious reasons, an achievement in the race away from human decency. They are trying to establish their own version of the camps and surprise surprise all folks from a certain religion automatically “qualify“.

 

[ericwn]

Number one, I think you overestimate the power of the US. China is not a third world country. Some parts of the US on the other hand... I mean I just have to recall the report I saw once of American dentists doing voluntarily work for a week in an American trailer park, just like European doctors volunteer to do a week or two in an African hospital.

And B: As a German I don't agree on the Chinese laws but who am I to tell them what their laws should be? Don't you think they had enough colonialism over there dictating them their laws and treaties? How would you feel if I would tell you that you should ban polygamy in Utah because I think it is not ok? Or that you should legalize women naked tanning on the beaches in Florida because it is the right thing to do? Or you know what, the US should legalize prostitution, gambling and weed because over here in Europe it works just fine.

One can start by human rights which should be a given anywhere. If not, let’s work on those first as a basis for humans to coexist in the 21st century. Then work from there.
As a fellow German I’m not going to accept their camp crap as anything but disgusting shameful oppression that obviously is invented straight in the party headquarters.

 

[ericwn]

In a recent article on Medium I read a proposal to level the score, and create an equal playing field for all. I can't remember the author or his exact argument, but it went something like this:

"All apps from China and Chinese websites must be blocked outside of China. Just like non-Chinese citizen outside of China are not allowed to open bank accounts in China, Chinese citizen should not be allowed to open bank accounts outside of China. Similarly, there should be no VPN possible from China to outside-China, as long as there is no VPN from outside-China into China."

... made sense to me. What do you think about this?

Eye for an eye has never introduced significant change in the past, and I don’t see it solving anything here either.

 

[ericwn]

Opening China to world trade was supposed to eventually result in political reforms. It was one of the big selling points. The freer the market the freer the people.

Its not happening.

Yeah promised by those who wanted more in the pocket at all costs.

 

[ericwn]

Can we just ship Tim Apple off to China and smooth things out? He's so wonderful, surely he can succeed where others have failed.

Only if you can find someone who will run the company in a better and more successful way. I’m looking forward to your proposal for his replacement!

 

[ericwn]

...at this point? In my opinion, Apple has been wedded to profits over human rights for decades. For the price of Apple products, Apple could easily survive moving all production to America.

I doubt they would find staff willing to do the manual labour for the scale of the operation, even if we deduct all the then missing sales to China which are what, a third?
And robots are probably extremely expensive when your production only runs for a year or two. But sure thing, as soon as these issues are out of the way that would be starting to become interesting for them.

 

[ericwn]

BBC should do a documentary about US jails and prisons instead. HRW describes the system as criminal, and the US has the highest criminal incarceration rate in the world.

Re-education camps? https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/...ns-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/

Nothing can excuse the disgusting camps. Not in Nazi Germany, and not in China.

But some keep trying for sure. One injustice never justified another one.

 

[ericwn]

Pot calling the kettle… why don't you guys fix your own country before going after others? Like the death penalty. 0.7% in prison, 1.5% on parole. Children held in confinement. Racial injustice. Mass surveillance. Torture. Insane foreign policy.

Ah there we go again. And you clean up your party’s crimes against humanity in China then and report back when freedom of speech and religion are established. So long!

 

[ericwn]

Snowden tried that. He is now in Russia, wanted for virtually every crime there is a law for.

Assange tried that. He has been holed up in England for the past eight years, in slow transit to death row in America.

Neither of them received the Nobel peace prize. They would have if they had been Chinese.

So let’s add to that pile. Got you.

 

[ericwn]

If the USA were a country which respected human rights then maybe Apple could criticize China's human rights record openly without sounding hypocritical.

Human rights violations should be addressed everywhere of course. Silence is complacency.

 

[ericwn]

Please leave the EU as well, while you're at it. We're fed up with you and your surveillance.

We?

 

[I7guy]

If the USA were a country which respected human rights then maybe Apple could criticize China's human rights record openly without sounding hypocritical.

It’s not binary as you are making it out to be.

 

[ericwn]

Error when posting.

 

[macdos]

That's patently false. The reform is not targeting muslims per se, but radicalized elements of Islam, Uyghur muslims who went to Iran and Afghanistan and got impressed by the new radical movements (Mujaheddin et al) when China opened up in the 80s, Uyghur muslims who have a false notion of belonging to an "East Turkestan" that never existed but nevertheless is pushed by NED and other American organizations in a geopolitical stance to bring chaos to China.

There are other muslims in China, for instance the Hui, who are as highly regarded as anyone else. It is not about religion, but about combatting terrorism and promoting stability, about creating unity among the many peoples in China.

They do . Biggest prison camp for religious reasons, an achievement in the race away from human decency. They are trying to establish their own version of the camps and surprise surprise all folks from a certain religion automatically “qualify“.

 

[macdos]

Ja, wir. Die amerikanische überwachung von Frau Merkel ist doch wahnsinn, nicht wahr?

We?

 

[macdos]

In the 16th century, they told the Chinese that Christianity should be given anywhere. Catholicism means exactly that, universalism, a peculiar European concept that an idea conceived by a group of thinkers should have universal validity and apply to everyone. However, the Chinese said 滚！and banned the jesuits, dominicans, franciscans and other missionaries when they suggested that notion.

In the 19th century, they told the Chinese that Trade liberalism should be given anywhere. The Chinese said 滚！again, so the English and other powers started a series of wars to impose that trade liberalism (including opium), while taking bits and pieces of Chinese territory.

And now in the 21st century, they tell the Chinese that Human rights, a.k.a. Christianity 2.0, should be given anywhere. The pattern repeats itself, over and over again.

I have a better idea. Why don't you guys just 滚！and mind your own business, fixing your own corona infested economies tumbling down the hill, solving your own blatant human rights problems before pointing fingers at China and others? Be a role model for others to emulate, instead of trying to impose rights that you can't live up to yourselves.

If there is anything we can learn from 2000 years of history, then it is that China will take to its heart only what they see fit, no matter how much pressure you exert. China is China, not your puppet state, not your vassal state, not your obediant servant. 滚！

One can start by human rights which should be a given anywhere. If not, let’s work on those first as a basis for humans to coexist in the 21st century. Then work from there.

 

[ericwn]

In the 16th century, they told the Chinese that Christianity should be given anywhere. Catholicism means exactly that, universalism, a peculiar European concept that an idea conceived by a group of thinkers should have universal validity and apply to everyone. However, the Chinese said 滚！and banned the jesuits, dominicans, franciscans and other missionaries when they suggested that notion.

In the 19th century, they told the Chinese that Trade liberalism should be given anywhere. The Chinese said 滚！again, so the English and other powers started a series of wars to impose that trade liberalism (including opium), while taking bits and pieces of Chinese territory.

And now in the 21st century, they tell the Chinese that Human rights, a.k.a. Christianity 2.0, should be given anywhere. The pattern repeats itself, over and over again.

I have a better idea. Why don't you guys just 滚！and mind your own business, fixing your own corona infested economies tumbling down the hill, solving your own blatant human rights problems before pointing fingers at China and others? Be a role model for others to emulate, instead of trying to impose rights that you can't live up to yourselves.

If there is anything we can learn from 2000 years of history, then it is that China will take to its heart only what they see fit, no matter how much pressure you exert. China is China, not your puppet state, not your vassal state, not your obediant servant. 滚！

Pathetic. Nazi 2.0.
Even the camp is there.

Human rights are not a religion. Grow up.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Ah there we go again. And you clean up your party’s crimes against humanity in China then and report back when freedom of speech and religion are established. So long!

But this also is what America wants, at least Biden and the Communist far left which rule in that country. From what i READ the Republican Party is your nationalist party, the true American patriot party, while the Democratic Party is the new Communist Party which wants to take away all freedom from Americans. Sadly, America needs to get rid of the communist influence.
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In the 16th century, they told the Chinese that Christianity should be given anywhere. Catholicism means exactly that, universalism, a peculiar European concept that an idea conceived by a group of thinkers should have universal validity and apply to everyone. However, the Chinese said 滚！and banned the jesuits, dominicans, franciscans and other missionaries when they suggested that notion.

In the 19th century, they told the Chinese that Trade liberalism should be given anywhere. The Chinese said 滚！again, so the English and other powers started a series of wars to impose that trade liberalism (including opium), while taking bits and pieces of Chinese territory.

And now in the 21st century, they tell the Chinese that Human rights, a.k.a. Christianity 2.0, should be given anywhere. The pattern repeats itself, over and over again.

I have a better idea. Why don't you guys just 滚！and mind your own business, fixing your own corona infested economies tumbling down the hill, solving your own blatant human rights problems before pointing fingers at China and others? Be a role model for others to emulate, instead of trying to impose rights that you can't live up to yourselves.

If there is anything we can learn from 2000 years of history, then it is that China will take to its heart only what they see fit, no matter how much pressure you exert. China is China, not your puppet state, not your vassal state, not your obediant servant. 滚！

Macdos, where are you from ?

 

[macdos]

I'm from Viking country up north. How so?

Macdos, where are you from ?

 

[macdos]

Adrian Zenz told you so, or did you look for yourself?

Human rights are nothing but an idea. Just like religion. And for both, there are various interpretations. Yours isn't necessarily the right one.

Pathetic. Nazi 2.0.
Even the camp is there.

Human rights are not a religion. Grow up.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

The thing is, the vast majority of Chinese citizens like their government. They’re ok with the restrictions.

Have they just fallen for propaganda and been brainwashed? Maybe/probably?

Do you seriously believe that they're OK with the restrictions? Look what China did to the Muslim population that disagreed with their policies ("re-education camps" that are basically concentration camps) or Tiananmen Square for that matter! Nothing like being mowed down by tanks. Yeah, it's more like the Chinese are too afraid to do anything. My god, they have them on a point system controlled by facial recognition cameras everywhere where they can be punished for not smiling enough even! You actually believe their citizens LIKE that? I suppose there's always going to be some S&M folk, but it's more like they're trained to not question anything so they know their neighbors will turn them in. They used all kinds of ways to get around the government Web blocks until they cracked down yet again (on Google and Apple and everyone else). Timid, maybe. I don't buy they "like" being treated like that.

But hey, Tim Cook claims he's against gay discrimination and pushes things in the (relatively safe) US, yet he's stone silent about countries like Saudi Arabia. Apple is an absolute hypocrite company to complain about anything given their iOS policies. But they know they have an army of Kool-Aid drinkers that will attack everyone that says anything bad about Apple and have for years (commonly known as fan-boys or the Kool-Aid Brigade). It's hard to imagine how such a closed company can inspire such loyalty long after the only creative mind they had has died (Jobs). Now Apple is just a greedy company pushing for ever more greed while trying to deny its employees everything from a living wage (Apple Store) to any semblance of privacy (the spaceship headquarters without regular offices or cubicles or even air conditioning. Of course, the rules don't apply to Tim or upper management. They do whatever the flip they feel like just like every other company's top management that feels they're entitled to be treated like gods while everyone else can suck fumes.

Microsoft is no better either. It's a darn shame there's no real alternative. 25 years later and Linux still sucks for commercial software and the dozens of distributions are mostly incompatible and all have their own repositories dependent on the maintainers that can disappear at a moment's notice. I used to have to wait over a month for a new version of Firefox to appear when I used repositories on a given distribution. Setting up the official version (which often didn't install in the right places as various distributions all had different install locations for things) got the auto-updates everyone else on Earth is used to, but much software still had to be compiled if you didn't have the right distribution providing a ready made binary or it was only available as source code, etc. Linux would have to give up the gazillion distributions it has and/or get all to agree on ONE STANDARD to make Linux a truly competitive desktop system. Only Linus Torvalds could have ever made that happen and he chose not to do so. I'm sure Google is thrilled he did not, though as it let them push their Chrome books and save a mint on their search engine server software.

Personally, I was hoping with Cook in charge and Jony Ive out of the way, Apple could take a more balanced approach to keeping their desktop Macs updated, etc. (you know like a REAL computer company does, with many models to choose and lots of updates and options), but unfortunately, Cook kept the locked-down approach without the Jobs innovations. How long did it take to the get the current new Mac Pro out and it's already designated OBSOLETE by virtue of Apple saying they're going to abandon Intel hardware in the next couple of years. Who wants to spend that kind of money on what will soon be unsupported hardware??? NO ONE is the correct answer. The irony will be that Intel will then play catch up just like it did before when Apple was using RISC based PowerPC and Apple will then be slow and with a fraction of the software it has now just like it was in 2005 except you'd have to be a fool to buy back into the Macintosh if they switched back yet again as Apple has proven they are fickle as the wind and it's ALL in the name of more control, which means higher profits if they can keep people overpaying for Macs and eventually get a 30% cut of all Mac software with no emulators, Blu-Ray rippers, etc. ALLOWED (hence the irony of the Communist Censorship complaints as Apple already censors the living hell out of iOS software!!!)