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Adrian Zenz told you so, or did you look for yourself?

Human rights are nothing but an idea. Just like religion. And for both, there are various interpretations. Yours isn't necessarily the right one.

Oh I know for sure when talking to someone as dumb as a modern day Nazi.

You have zero idea about human rights or their “interpretation “. You don’t even seems to be willing to admit people basic human rights as you constantly excuse the camp 2.0. Disgustingly sad.
 
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Ja, wir. Die amerikanische überwachung von Frau Merkel ist doch wahnsinn, nicht wahr?

Ah so there are more like you who don’t believe in religious freedom or human rights while living cowardly amongst those who do. I see. Maybe pack it up and move back behind your own wall if you’re unwilling to hear criticism.

Ms Merkel will be equally observed by her so called alllies as by China and Russia.
 
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There is no such camp.

And I am all for the collective human right to live in peace and security, without the threat of either terrorism or drive-by shootings.

Oh I know for sure when talking to someone as dumb as a modern day Nazi.

You have zero idea about human rights or their “interpretation “. You don’t even seems to be willing to admit people basic human rights as you constantly excuse the camp 2.0. Disgustingly sad.
 
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Your freedom of religion ends precisely when it becomes a menace and threat to society. It is not an absolute, not even in the land of bible thumpers.

Ah so there are more like you who don’t believe in religious freedom or human rights while living cowardly amongst those who do. I see. Maybe pack it up and move back behind your own wall if you’re unwilling to hear criticism.

Ms Merkel will be equally observed by her so called alllies as by China and Russia.
 
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But this also is what America wants, at least Biden and the Communist far left which rule in that country. From what i READ the Republican Party is your nationalist party, the true American patriot party, while the Democratic Party is the new Communist Party which wants to take away all freedom from Americans. Sadly, America needs to get rid of the communist influence.
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Macdos, where are you from ?

America has no far left. Look at their party plans. They don’t come anywhere near socialism or communism. For anyone outside the US these parties will look closer than they will admit.
 
Oh, am I a nazi or a commie? Make up your mind!

Probably too dumb to belong in any such team but closest to a Nazi. Multiple attempts at badmouthing a religion and excusing the camps is all one needs to look at.
 
Geez… you really are ignorant. Virtually every modern radical idea of the left has its origin in the US, from free hippie love and radical feminism to affirmative action and the whole gender politics enchilada.

America has no far left.
 
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Your freedom of religion ends precisely when it becomes a menace and threat to society. It is not an absolute, not even in the land of bible thumpers.

Or when the party decides it can be used to brainwash its shills. You demonstrated that quite well over and over. Back then the Jews now it’s the Muslims. That was too dumb even for the Americans to believe on a large scale but it seems to work for you so congrats.
 
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Brainwashing is all on you. Question your media. Demand proof, not just hearsay and speculation based on a crazy Christian demagogue like Adrian Zenz. Read up, for chrissake.

Or when the party decides it can be used to brainwash its shills. You demonstrated that quite well over and over. Back then the Jews now it’s the Muslims. That was too dumb even for the Americans to believe on a large scale but it seems to work for you so congrats.
 
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Brainwashing is all on you. Question your media. Demand proof, not just hearsay and speculation based on a crazy Christian demagogue like Adrian Zenz. Read up, for chrissake.

Thanks I guess I need to visit one of your camps that you like to so heavily excuse because Muslims are so bad. I’ll probably get the education there. Sounds like you’ve been worked on there a bunch.

I have not discussed Christians. Not the topic. Only you keep bringing religion up. And yes, a supposedly Christian figured out more about the camps. So what. When you have factual evidence from a worldwide respected human rights organization providing the man wrong, let’s see it. Not some random wannabe news site. Let’s have Amnesty dive into it and see what’s going on. Bet I know who will be against that.
 
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Apple Exiting China would send a huge signal that China's laws aren't acceptable, and would be a huge impact on their economy, a huge drive for change. How would that NOT help Chinese/Taiwanese/Hong Kong citizens?
Because they don't want to change. People in Wuhan is having a much better life than people in Minneapolis. That's why.

All schools in Wuhan have reopened and all students are attending in-person classes at full capacity. What about here in the US?
 
Well, in the same vein you have continued unfounded criticism toward Apple, so your views and opinions do not count as far as I am concerned. But this is perfectly okay, as this is a forum with many varied opinions with much grey area.

I hope people who criticize apple, walk the talk and do not buy products, or products that contain components that are made in China. Because that action separates the hyperbole from someone with real values.

The difference between me and you is that my critisims towards Apple are just, your defence of Apple is not. I have been a long time supporter of Apple, I've bought numerous products of theirs over the years and i still do, the last being an iphone SE but my being a supporter of Apple does not mean I have to blindly support them at every thing they do. China's human rights abuses are well known and well documented by the United Nations council BUT large foreign corporations ignore such human rights abuses for the sake of profitability, Apple is one of those corporations.

Having companies like Apple in China helps not only the people by giving them jobs, it's helps the Chinese economy too. When a government commits human rights abuses against it's citizens, foreign companies such as Apple have a moral obligation to stand up to such behaviour and demand that the abuses stop or they will pull out of the country.

Apple are not doing this but making excuses as to why they continue to opperate in China. As such, any criticism I make of Apple is legitimate criticism.

As for walk the talk, since 2011 when I took a stance of not conciously buying anything from China, I have only bought two items that have said 'Made In China' on them, which was a GoPro type camera and the iphone SE. As the term goes, there are some of us who do 'put our money where our mouth is'.
 
The difference between me and you is that my critisims towards Apple are just, your defence of Apple is not.
This amounts to nothing more than my opinion = right, while your opinion = wrong.
I have been a long time supporter of Apple, I've bought numerous products of theirs over the years and i still do, the last being an iphone SE but my being a supporter of Apple does not mean I have to blindly support them at every thing they do. China's human rights abuses are well known and well documented by the United Nations council BUT large foreign corporations ignore such human rights abuses for the sake of profitability, Apple is one of those corporations.
This again is your opinion. China supplies some astounding amount of product to the world and it’s tough to find products that completely don’t have some part that is not made in China.
Having companies like Apple in China helps not only the people by giving them jobs, it's helps the Chinese economy too. When a government commits human rights abuses against it's citizens, foreign companies such as Apple have a moral obligation to stand up to such behaviour and demand that the abuses stop or they will pull out of the country.
Again, just your opinion, that I don’t agree with.
Apple are not doing this but making excuses as to why they continue to opperate in China. As such, any criticism I make of Apple is legitimate criticism.
It’s just another variation of my opinion = right and your opinion = wrong.
As for walk the talk, since 2011 when I took a stance of not conciously buying anything from China, I have only bought two items that have said 'Made In China' on them, which was a GoPro type camera and the iphone SE. As the term goes, there are some of us who do 'put our money where our mouth is'.
I applaud you on claiming you’re not conciously buying product that is stamped “made in china”, starting when Tim Cook became ceo.

However, it seems to me, the hyperbole of child labor aside, Apple is doing more good indirectly in China than not, and is not under any moral obligation to tell Foxconn to pull their manufacturing out of China because you say so.

You buying Apple products from a long time, as have we, doesn’t mean your opinion is any more “right” or “wrong” than mine or anybody else’s.
 
Adrian Zenz told you so, or did you look for yourself?

Human rights are nothing but an idea. Just like religion. And for both, there are various interpretations. Yours isn't necessarily the right one.

Nothing but an idea? So you won't mind if I enslave you and make you a forced sex worker, etc. etc.? Because human rights are just "an idea" ??? I see how a true Communist thinks. I don't believe for a second you're from a "Viking country up North", but I think it's far more like it's mainland China where you are well paid by the Communist Party there to sew propaganda in Western sites.

Let me spell it ALL out for the rest of you once and for all.

The problem in the US right now is we have signs of Fascism (from Trump who thinks he should be the world leader when in reality he's a clueless moron) and an odd renewed push for Socialism, one step removed from Communism thanks to that moron Bernie Sanders that thinks it's OK for him to be rich (for sitting on his arse his whole life) and of course he'd be one of the rich Communist Party members while everyone else can eat dog food and be watched 24/7 by the government to make sure you aren't behaving in anti-government manners. That Sanders crap has now moved well into the Democratic Party and is poisoning the well, so-to-speak. I've been watching this year both with the virus and the political horse manure and it's utterly AMAZING to me that these two clowns (a foot-in-mouth has-been with signs of dementia and a clown that won't pay his bills and workers, talks out both sides his body and thinks he invented everything (Al Gore's twin brother in the other party?) are the BEST that the United States has to offer for President this year. SERIOUSLY??? I thought the last election was bad, but that's before we knew the full extent of Trump's haplessness (although all the signs were there) and Hillary's entitledness and sheer unlikableness with business dealings (White Water) that make you question if the Clintons were in the wrong party all along. 335 MILLION people and 2 jokers if there ever were any are the two non-choices.... Two parties that keep people looking the other way (like a magician) to keep you from seeing what BOTH parties are doing right under your nose!

I have to reevaluate all those conspiracy theories from the 1990s about a New World Order and a virus or other emergency that would lead the world right to it because everything I've seen this year says they weren't kidding. The virus was shown to be 1000x less deadly than the earliest models predicted (the ones we locked the planet down based upon and that said Sweden would have 500,000 people dead by the end of May if they didn't lockdown immediately! The real number 5700 and 5000 of them were over 70 and/or in Nursing homes). Sweden has shown that a lockdown and masks don't do anything but delay the inevitable (subtract their nursing home deaths and those over age 80 and they're doing pretty darn well compared to the rest of the planet without all the mass collateral damage) and despite the sheer OBVIOUSNESS of it all, the media and morons the world over keep acting like we're all going to die if we don't hide in our homes the rest of our lives (utter horse manure). Worldwide, this virus is STILL only about 2x as bad as an average Flu year and that's IF you believe the death counts (94% of the deaths worldwide had 1-4 comorbidities associated with them; in other words they didn't die "from" the virus, but the virus was one "possible" factor in their death). The point is that 99.95+% of the population of Sweden (and the USA for that matter) are still alive. This is not the Bubonic Plague for god's sake!

If you're under 50, the common Flu is more likely to kill you than Covid-19!!! That's an indisputable FACT that anyone can look up on the Internet. If you're under 20, you're 50x more likely to die as a result of tripping on your shoelaces! You've got similar odds to being suddenly struck by lightning (and I don't mean purposely golfing in a thunderstorm where you're the tallest thing in a square mile either). People completely lack perspective! All they hear is what the news tells them and the news is making it sound as scary as possible! And the stupid politicians (who aren't experts in ANYTHING except running their mouths) just do whatever the hell they feel like doing and call it science. The doctors are only telling them the best case scenario for the lowest possible number of deaths (they're still guessing and following models that proved incorrect, but some of them really are trying their best), but that doesn't make them economists or leaders! The collateral damage from these lockdowns are going to be WORSE than the virus itself by a magnitude of 100-1000x!!!

People are going to starve to death this winter because large parts of India missed the planting season, for example. The response to this disease is FAR WORSE than the disease itself! People are even committing suicide because they're more lonely than ever and our failed policies are the REASON for it. Sweden's numbers in happiness are so much better than ours for that very reason and yet unless you lived in one of their nursing homes, you're almost certainly doing just fine!

When you've been had, you've been had and the amazing thing is that most people on this planet are too flipping STUPID (not ignorant, but STUPID) to even see it. They believe every word the mass media tells them despite knowing the media is extremely partisan (the days of actual unbiased news are long gone) and also huge money makers. This virus has enriched mass media like never before as people cling to to the news like their lives depend on it. The political circus is also in full swing. The movie IDIOCRACY never looked quite so believable as it does now! Everything is a dollar. Apple. Astrazeneca. Tylenol. Mega-Corporations that own almost EVERYTHING on the planet are in control of what you see, hear and even how you feel (drugs are a big seller!)

The truly sad thing is how 99% of the population doesn't get that. There are no winners but the top 1%. There never were. The difference between us and them is that we make money on your misery and you LOVE US FOR IT! I could be a major CEO or even a Congressman getting my kicks on social media right now telling you all how it is and you'll just laugh and laugh because you're clueless. Some of you guys make Trump look smart, even. But even Trump isn't trying to destroy Capitalism. Why would he? It made him rich. We already know from the Soviet Union that sane people and Communism don't go together. It only works in China because Asians are wired differently than the rest of us. They prefer being told what to do and how to think (security over freedom) just as this troll from China is telling it in this thread. They think freedom = drive-by shootings rather than a small percentage of dumb criminals that think spraying a house with bullets is more likely to kill their enemies safely than assassination. The Chinese government doesn't do drive-by shootings! They just come and get your and you disappear forever and yet they call that "safe" for some bizarre reason (propaganda works!). But when you have no skills and you have no brain cells you act like the people in Idiocracy and sadly this virus has proven the ENTIRE WORLD (save Sweden!) to be freaking MORONS! And ANYONE that thinks otherwise is twice as gullible and 3x as stupid!

You've got people burning cities down while the politicians think getting rid of the police sounds like a good idea! (Until the polling tells them they're gonna lose and suddenly they change their tunes!) That's the kind of two-faced waffling horse manure that traditional politics has done for years! People don't stand for anything! They have no moral integrity and they do what they think will give them the most power and/or money! That's YOUR "representatives" at work and people just keep voting the same pieces of garbage back into office year after year after year! It's not like you have a choice. The powers that be just stick another crony in line. It takes MILLIONS to run for any office and that means you're either rich (scum already) or serving someone rich (serving scum). The system is BROKEN. And it doesn't really matter who is there anyway as the Military Industrial Complex and a handful of ultra-billionaires actually control everything anyway and they can work with whomever, whenever. Trump is only causing them some minor issues because he truly believes he has some power. If he pushes the wrong buttons (like JFK did), he'd find out how much power he actually has. Apple has more power than Trump and so does Jeff Bezos, but even they know better than to go certain places with that power.

I don't care if the moderators ban me for telling the truth. It'll only prove my point that much more and I know full well that 95% of you wouldn't believe me even if I could give you the lottery numbers for tomorrow. That's just how people are. They've already made up their minds and a fleet of Vogons overhead getting ready to destroy the Earth like in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy would be written off in their minds as hallucination caused by Covid.... (since Covid causes well...everything!!!)

And Apple??? Apple is a phone company now. The Macintosh is dying and the change to ARM will be the final nail in its coffin. Steve Jobs called the Mac a truck. Tim Cook doesn't call it anything. He uses a phone and maybe an iPad. You might call that progress, but those of us that actually like real computers know the Mac isn't and hasn't been keeping pace. The new Mac Pro is a JOKE in that it not only won't get updated, but they're abandoning the CPUs that make it so powerful in the first place! Talk about releasing something just to destroy it a year later.... Unbelievable. Just unbelievable.
 
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Opening China to world trade was supposed to eventually result in political reforms. It was one of the big selling points. The freer the market the freer the people.

Its not happening.

What rights do the ‘US/West’ have in enforcing their political system on others when it’s proven to be highly problematic with white collar corruption and control by special interests? It’s such hypocrisy to make those holier than thou proclamations! In reality, the West are acting like the old Christians who enforces their religious believes on others or its evil/death. China’s govt has given its people the best of their lives of China’s 5000 years history, including poverty elimination, universal healthcare amongst incredible improvements in their livelihoods. What a joke but a laugh to see see all the ignorami jumping up and down again China!
 
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What rights do the ‘US/West’ have in enforcing their political system on others when it’s proven to be highly problematic with white collar corruption and control by special interests? It’s such hypocrisy to make those holier than thou proclamations! In reality, the West are acting like the old Christians who enforces their religious believes on others or its evil/death. China’s govt has given its people the best of their lives of China’s 5000 years history, including poverty elimination, universal healthcare amongst incredible improvements in their livelihoods. What a joke but a laugh to see see all the ignorami jumping up and down again China!

By eliminating freedom of speech. By killing those who oppose oppression.
By selling its people as a cheap labour force for western companies and bowing to capitalism.
By creating a surveillance state that would make even Orwell depressed.
By attempting to eradicate cultures like the Uighurs.

By ignoring human rights

None of the above is to be applauded.
Are you claiming there is no corruption in China? A wonderful joke. Are there no special interests? Oh there are. Every oppressive regime has a special interest group. Likely the one floating at the top.

Come back after some human rights are established so that you at least have a playing field for a discussion in the 21st century.
 
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Only if you can find someone who will run the company in a better and more successful way. I’m looking forward to your proposal for his replacement!

Is that because he loves China so much and they love him they won't let him come back? I was thinking Tim could cook something up in a few days. But hey, I'll go with sending him there forever. Maybe he can get a new Chinese blood boy too!
 
Is that because he loves China so much and they love him they won't let him come back? I was thinking Tim could cook something up in a few days. But hey, I'll go with sending him there forever. Maybe he can get a new Chinese blood boy too!

So no idea what’s better from a shareholder perspective than the guy who ran it officially and behind the scenes for the last two decades.
I don’t think there’s a love affair that you want to see just because we currently have some folks feeding an anti China phase. It was just the typical American IT company operating in China, then they happened to have lots of really good products. I believe in then end that’s what makes him stand out. Not the East expansion that every US company did or at least considered.
 
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