Apple pulling support out of India

[rishi]

American jobs NOT ONLY for American people

Racist or not, I am glad that Apple is pulling out of India. American jobs for American people.

Hi Folks,

I am from India and Mac user.I am really surprised by some of the responses here and would like to share my views in my broken,third world english.

If people don't understand the english spoken by Indians, they are justified in asking for better customer support staff (preferably from the western world) but saying that American jobs for American people is simply not fair, infact it makes you guys appear quite greedy and selfish.

India was a socialist country until 15 years when IMF and other Western nations convinced us to open our economy.Fall of communism and Russia was another factor in favour of a globalized economy.This is exactly what we accepted and the process of liberalization set in.

Now globalization does not mean an one way traffic where we only allow American (or Western) products into our country.It also means our products and services have easy access to the global markets. So there is simply no justification in saying, "American jobs for American people."

If you want to be "Be American,Buy American" then you should also "Sell American." Recall those oil companies from Middle east and all the hedge funds,mutual funds investing abroad,and all the Cokes,Pepsi's and Pizza Huts.

I know I am writing this on an American MacBook Pro and there is a Seagate External Drive (also American?) on my desk, so it might be hypocritical on my part to say this, but fact is many of us have accepted that this world is flat and we have to live in a global economy.However it is you who seems to be having a tough time accepting this, you want all the benefits of a global economy without accepting the drawbacks.

It is not that India has only benefited by accepting this new global economy. We have lost our manufacturing jobs since imports are just as cheap and we have a serious problem in agriculture. There are jobs in ITES (outsourcing) but they reach only a small section of population.Many of these kids who work in this centres get a monthly salary of around 20,000 Rs, which is around 400 dollars. There is no scope for promotion and many have not even graduated because they are getting jobs so easily.If tomorrow, these MNC's decide to move over to countries like Phillipines or Vietnam, then they will be simply left high and dry.

The main beneficiaries of these outsourcing phenomenon are American MNC's and this money is going back to American stockholders.

Regarding Apple, it seems they decided to call this off, because Apple has a very low penetration here in India and it would take lot of time and effort to train their support staff with the Macs.

As an Apple users in India, I have several complaints against this company (maybe this is OT) but have no choice because of the OS which I love. My MacBook Pro has cost me nearly 3000 dollars while it costs 2000 in US. Launch of new products is always two months late. If I go to my reseller tomorrow to buy a MacBook Pro, I will have to pay 3K for 1.83 GHz model, while my American counterpart will get a faster machine at lesser price. Dell sells their 1330 dollar (US Site) computer for 1400 dollars here in India so why is Apple overcharging when there is hardly any import tax by the Government ?

I have a MBP, an iBook and two ipods. Whenever I have contacted Customer support by phone or in person, I found them extremely courteous and helpful. Maybe you guys really missed it.

 

[LukeJ]

Pleasant AppleCare enrollment

I just bought a refurbished MBP (my first Mac after a lifetime of DOS/Windows), and enrolled my AppleCare plan today. For some reason it wouldn't activate via the Web so I had to call in. I had everything ironed out in 5 minutes and was glad not to be transfered to a call center on the other side of the planet. It was very nice to be able to understand the rep with no problems, and I hope and pray it stays that way.

This is very good news indeed.

Luke

 

[Peterkro]

alright marx take it easy...

jeez some people around here are so bitter.

Don't know where you get the idea I'm a Marxist from nothing could be further from the truth although he has a worldwide(outside of the US) reputation as a Economist.I'm a little miffed that amongst the racist drivel on this thread anyone raising a view that doesn't follow the party line results in irrational attacks.I guess maybe the truth hurts.If anyone wants to continue in the Political forum I'll gladly oblige.

Actually that's a little unfair he is also seen as a great economist by many in the US just not the neocons who use him to frighten the horses.

 

[Sdashiki]

If I am in my country.

And I pick up my phone to call a business in my country company for service.

I expect to have the person on the other end of the line to speak my country's language. Its not racist, its not stupid, its common sense. And in a way, its customer service.

Broken language, or extremely heavy accented language, bad overseas connections and static, are NOT good customer service. And we all have had that kind of call from one company or another.

ps: mine was Sprint the other day...

 

[superbovine]

Then you have gotten lucky. Buy a Dell product sometime. Call them up. My company's helpdesk is based out of India. They aren't bad...even though they can't spell...deployed worth a dang. Dell's reps? I'd have an easier time understanding white noise. Heck I can understand a thick Scottish accent more easily then I can an Indian one. Of all the places on the world WHY did it have to be India that companies are outsourcing too? As best as I can tell Indians speak quicker which is part of the problem. But that coupled with the accent makes things doubly as difficult.

Either way, dell moved consumer support to minnesota.

 

[Peterkro]

If I am in my country.

And I pick up my phone to call a business in my country company for service.

I expect to have the person on the other end of the line to speak my country's language. Its not racist, its not stupid, its common sense. And in a way, its customer service.

Broken language, or extremely heavy accented language, bad overseas connections and static, are NOT good customer service. And we all have had that kind of call from one company or another.

ps: mine was Sprint the other day...

I see your point and if that's what you want fight for it don't just say it's wrong it's the way capitalism works they don't care about workers in the US or anywhere else, my experience with Apple in India has been excellent and I had a long and very interesting conversation with one operator about a certain philosopher we were both interested in.Part of the problem is many people want a middle class American to talk to and can't follow other varieties of English accent, because of US isolationism many are not used to others accents even though they speak English clearly and accurately,something a lot of Americans don't understand is that your accent is as hard for us as ours maybe to you, we live with it and don't complain.(well only to take the piss) also Silicon valley has many engineers from India because they're good and visa restrictions are no problem but try that if your a skilled support worker no way we want you in your country so we can pay you peanuts.See world free trade,freedom for capital but not workers.

 

[Makosuke]

Wow, this is getting far afield from the original topic, but what the heck.

I think you'll find most of the money ends up with the shareholders of Apple and their partner companies shareholders,I find it difficult to understand the loyalty to the piece of dirt you live on,to be honest your being ripped off by capitalists wherever they live.

Say what? Have you noticed that Apple hasn't paid a dividend to shareholders (of which I am one, in fact) in years? I won't disagree with your for a second that you're getting ripped off by the rich no matter where you live, and I'd further agree that as with most modern execs Apple's higher-ups make more than they should (yes, Steve only gets $1, but even he has gotten some healthy compensation over the years even if he arguably deserves), but frankly I don't think Apple ranks all that high on the list of evil capitalist corporations.

And I don't have much loyalty to my piece of dirt, but it's simple math that when you "buy local", a percentage of that money filters back to you indirectly. It doesn't work well on the scale of a country the size of the US, but the basic principle is still decent. And again, I think Apple should have call centers for the UK located in the UK, Spain in Spain, etc. Yes, it costs more, but it's worth it.

If you're angry at capitalism, you should be particularly fond of companies that re-invest locally.

 

[rishi]

Thank you PeterKro

I once made an international call to Network Solutions and the customer service was not Indian.However even after spending money on this international call equal to money I paid for my domain,I could not get my matter resolved.

I had called Compaq once,here in India, and had a negative experience as well.

I think it is difficult to generalize.I suspect most people here calling to India, must be having reservations even before making the phone call.

My experience with Apple customer care has been extremely pleasant, though.

I think there must be other reasons for Apple cancelling this outsourcing plan. Like I mentioned in previous post, Macs are rarely used here in India,so Support staff would require extra training. BPO's here have an high attrition rate,nearly 40-50% per year, which again means more expenditure on training etc..


------------

Slightly OT, you have heard of outsourcing,how about reverse outsourcing -

http://www.boston.com/business/glob...ech_firms_seek_us_talent_in_offshoring_twist/

 

[Peterkro]

Wow, this is getting far afield from the original topic, but what the heck.

Say what? Have you noticed that Apple hasn't paid a dividend to shareholders (of which I am one, in fact) in years? I won't disagree with your for a second that you're getting ripped off by the rich no matter where you live, and I'd further agree that as with most modern execs Apple's higher-ups make more than they should (yes, Steve only gets $1, but even he has gotten some healthy compensation over the years even if he arguably deserves), but frankly I don't think Apple ranks all that high on the list of evil capitalist corporations.

And I don't have much loyalty to my piece of dirt, but it's simple math that when you "buy local", a percentage of that money filters back to you indirectly. It doesn't work well on the scale of a country the size of the US, but the basic principle is still decent. And again, I think Apple should have call centers for the UK located in the UK, Spain in Spain, etc. Yes, it costs more, but it's worth it.

If you're angry at capitalism, you should be particularly fond of companies that re-invest locally.

I wasn't picking on Apple in fact to me they're one of the best multinationals.I have to disagree with the trickle down theory though it would work if companies would spent locally but they won't,Auckland,Moscow,or child labour in Columbia cheaper that's were they'll go.Smaller co-operative enterprises with local labour which traded with others all over the world would be fine.I think if you've owned APPL stock for more than a short term it's worth more now than when you brought it (after allowing for inflation).I'm just disappointed that because a systems in place most people jump on(even the bread and butter capitalists)when it would be so much better to change the system.

 

[solvs]

Either way, dell moved consumer support to minnesota.

No one's going to make a joke about this? I can't think of any off hand. But I know someone has something.

(my Stepdad is from Minnesota, and the accent creeps in every once in awhile dontchaknow)

 

[ebelin]

One more happy camper here!!

Finally, people are coming to their senses. Apple, you get A+ on this one. The only question is why even bother to try some silly move like that.

 

[BWhaler]

Filipinos are better in communications skills. And alot of you guys would never even notice you are speaking with a filipino

Yes we would. Trust me.

 

[BWhaler]

Did you say that when you bought your Toyota?

My Toyota was made in South Carolina.

 

[BWhaler]

I stand by what I said. They were doing a good job.

They hadn't started working yet. Just training.

But we appreciate your enthusiasm.

 

[myke]

I'll note that while a lot of Northerners have a tough time with a strong Southern drawl, thanks to movies I don't think most Southerners have trouble understanding a Yankee. Sad, maybe, but a fact. I'm guessing (though I could be totally wrong) the same applies to a "proper" British accent in England versus folk with a strong Scottish or Welsh accent.

In fact in the UK it tends to be the English regional accents (Birmingham etc.) that are disliked, though middle class English southerners do have some odd prejudices against the Scots. By the way Scotland and Wales are NOT in England. They are in the UK. Only England is in England! Scotland has many call centres (cheap labour, again) and that's not generally something you hear people complain about. Which leads me to think that this thread is about protectionism not accent.

 

[oober_freak]

Apple should just establish their contact centers here in the philippines. Really. Filipinos are better in communications skills. And alot of you guys would never even notice you are speaking with a filipino because filipinos are good in mimicking accents. WE have neutral accents, and whenever i speak with an american and have him/her guess where im from, he/she will say he/she doesn't have any idea , and some say i maybe from canada.

I am now working in dell, and previously, i work in an outsourcing call center, and our account there was BESTBUY. Yes, BESTBUY, you've heard me right. All of the americans ive spoken with there thought i am from canada, or sometimes california. Bestbuy is instructing us to tell americans that we are from minneapolis, lolz, but the americans couldn't believe i am from minneapolis because i sound like an american from california, or maybe canada. Coz i can't do a minneapolis accent. I can only try to have a neutral one.

You can mimick a lot, eh?

It's not that Indians can't speak English fluently, the fact is that the people who work at these call centers are mostly under-educated. The people who can't get into decent colleges work at these places. So, how would you expect decent quality?

And these call centers employ only about three hundred thousand people and the contribution to the GDP is negligible. So, Indians aren't exactly dependent on call centers. It is the IT sector which employs a lot of people and it is this sector which contributes to the economy. Not some silly call centers employing 20 guys who haven't got anything else to do.

A country with the 10th largest economy in dollar terms and the 4rd largest economy in PPP terms doesn't need call centers to feed its ppl.

It is American companies who don't care a dime about their people back home. The only thing that they are concerned about is money.

RIAA and MPAA anyone?

 

[Abstract]

Hi Folks,

I am from India and Mac user.I am really surprised by some of the responses here and would like to share my views in my broken,third world english.

If people don't understand the english spoken by Indians, they are justified in asking for better customer support staff (preferably from the western world) but saying that American jobs for American people is simply not fair, infact it makes you guys appear quite greedy and selfish.

India was a socialist country until 15 years when IMF and other Western nations convinced us to open our economy.Fall of communism and Russia was another factor in favour of a globalized economy.This is exactly what we accepted and the process of liberalization set in.

Now globalization does not mean an one way traffic where we only allow American (or Western) products into our country.It also means our products and services have easy access to the global markets. So there is simply no justification in saying, "American jobs for American people."

If you want to be "Be American,Buy American" then you should also "Sell American." Recall those oil companies from Middle east and all the hedge funds,mutual funds investing abroad,and all the Cokes,Pepsi's and Pizza Huts.

I know I am writing this on an American MacBook Pro and there is a Seagate External Drive (also American?) on my desk, so it might be hypocritical on my part to say this, but fact is many of us have accepted that this world is flat and we have to live in a global economy.However it is you who seems to be having a tough time accepting this, you want all the benefits of a global economy without accepting the drawbacks.

It is not that India has only benefited by accepting this new global economy. We have lost our manufacturing jobs since imports are just as cheap and we have a serious problem in agriculture. There are jobs in ITES (outsourcing) but they reach only a small section of population.Many of these kids who work in this centres get a monthly salary of around 20,000 Rs, which is around 400 dollars. There is no scope for promotion and many have not even graduated because they are getting jobs so easily.If tomorrow, these MNC's decide to move over to countries like Phillipines or Vietnam, then they will be simply left high and dry.

The main beneficiaries of these outsourcing phenomenon are American MNC's and this money is going back to American stockholders.

Regarding Apple, it seems they decided to call this off, because Apple has a very low penetration here in India and it would take lot of time and effort to train their support staff with the Macs.

As an Apple users in India, I have several complaints against this company (maybe this is OT) but have no choice because of the OS which I love. My MacBook Pro has cost me nearly 3000 dollars while it costs 2000 in US. Launch of new products is always two months late. If I go to my reseller tomorrow to buy a MacBook Pro, I will have to pay 3K for 1.83 GHz model, while my American counterpart will get a faster machine at lesser price. Dell sells their 1330 dollar (US Site) computer for 1400 dollars here in India so why is Apple overcharging when there is hardly any import tax by the Government ?

I have a MBP, an iBook and two ipods. Whenever I have contacted Customer support by phone or in person, I found them extremely courteous and helpful. Maybe you guys really missed it.

You make a lot of good points. Lots of Americans are just a bit whiney about "their" jobs disappearing and moving to another country.

There are 2 car companies (I forget which ones specifically) who said that it was a mistake to open a car plant in [insert name of cities here], because they find that their Canadian counterparts are much more efficient, make better vehicles, and are generally cheaper because of these factors. One of these companies moved their plant from one of the east coast states, and donw to Canada. The other said that they couldn't do anything because they invested a lot in the plant they have now. I read this awhle ago (within the last 2 years, but I honestly couldn't even tell you if it was in 2005 or 2004 because I read a lot of news) but meh, it probably still applies today.

 

[Core Trio]

Don't know where you get the idea I'm a Marxist from nothing could be further from the truth although he has a worldwide(outside of the US) reputation as a Economist.I'm a little miffed that amongst the racist drivel on this thread anyone raising a view that doesn't follow the party line results in irrational attacks.I guess maybe the truth hurts.If anyone wants to continue in the Political forum I'll gladly oblige.

Actually that's a little unfair he is also seen as a great economist by many in the US just not the neocons who use him to frighten the horses.

Haha chill out, it was a joke. Im not attacking you, have your opinion of capitalism thats fine, but Id get used to it...its not going anywhere in your lifetime.

And btw I wasnt ripping on marx either, just trying to lighten the mood. I hate to see this forum, where our biggest battle is usually over integrated graphics on the MB and Mini, turn into a political battlefield, there are places for that, this isnt one of them.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

Did you say that when you bought your Toyota?

Funny thing you mentioned cars, as Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi manufacture most of the cars sold in US on US soil so at least they are made by American workers. And those Toyotas, Hondas, Mitsubishis are more American than the recent American cars who have plants in Canada and Mexico.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

You make a lot of good points. Lots of Americans are just a bit whiney about "their" jobs disappearing and moving to another country.

There are 2 car companies (I forget which ones specifically) who said that it was a mistake to open a car plant in [insert name of cities here], because they find that their Canadian counterparts are much more efficient, make better vehicles, and are generally cheaper because of these factors. One of these companies moved their plant from one of the east coast states, and donw to Canada. The other said that they couldn't do anything because they invested a lot in the plant they have now. I read this awhle ago (within the last 2 years, but I honestly couldn't even tell you if it was in 2005 or 2004 because I read a lot of news) but meh, it probably still applies today.

Well Canadians may be more efficient or whatever but once you start outsourcing all the jobs from USA then people living in USA won't have jobs meaning they won't have any money to buy cars from "American" companies and the US economy will fail.

I don't think this is selfish, this is protecting your own people. If India can't create their own job market, quite frankly, that is their own internal problem, but once US companies are starting to outsource what once were American jobs then that is my problem as I live in US. Simple as that.

You think that if a company will move to India (or wherever) to save labor costs and those savings will be evident on the final MSRP you pay on the product in an American store? The prices will remain the same, and the one who you should call greedy are the actual owners or CEOs of companies that instead of the usual 100 million per year will make 110 million. And the average class of American life is steadily decreasing.

America is a self sufficient country, they are able to take care of themselves, and I am against globalization as it is a negative thing for most Americans except maybe for the top 5% who hold 90% of US riches.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

Hi Folks,

I am from India and Mac user.I am really surprised by some of the responses here and would like to share my views in my broken,third world english.

If people don't understand the english spoken by Indians, they are justified in asking for better customer support staff (preferably from the western world) but saying that American jobs for American people is simply not fair, infact it makes you guys appear quite greedy and selfish.

India was a socialist country until 15 years when IMF and other Western nations convinced us to open our economy.Fall of communism and Russia was another factor in favour of a globalized economy.This is exactly what we accepted and the process of liberalization set in.

Now globalization does not mean an one way traffic where we only allow American (or Western) products into our country.It also means our products and services have easy access to the global markets. So there is simply no justification in saying, "American jobs for American people."

If you want to be "Be American,Buy American" then you should also "Sell American." Recall those oil companies from Middle east and all the hedge funds,mutual funds investing abroad,and all the Cokes,Pepsi's and Pizza Huts.

I know I am writing this on an American MacBook Pro and there is a Seagate External Drive (also American?) on my desk, so it might be hypocritical on my part to say this, but fact is many of us have accepted that this world is flat and we have to live in a global economy.However it is you who seems to be having a tough time accepting this, you want all the benefits of a global economy without accepting the drawbacks.

It is not that India has only benefited by accepting this new global economy. We have lost our manufacturing jobs since imports are just as cheap and we have a serious problem in agriculture. There are jobs in ITES (outsourcing) but they reach only a small section of population.Many of these kids who work in this centres get a monthly salary of around 20,000 Rs, which is around 400 dollars. There is no scope for promotion and many have not even graduated because they are getting jobs so easily.If tomorrow, these MNC's decide to move over to countries like Phillipines or Vietnam, then they will be simply left high and dry.

The main beneficiaries of these outsourcing phenomenon are American MNC's and this money is going back to American stockholders.

Regarding Apple, it seems they decided to call this off, because Apple has a very low penetration here in India and it would take lot of time and effort to train their support staff with the Macs.

As an Apple users in India, I have several complaints against this company (maybe this is OT) but have no choice because of the OS which I love. My MacBook Pro has cost me nearly 3000 dollars while it costs 2000 in US. Launch of new products is always two months late. If I go to my reseller tomorrow to buy a MacBook Pro, I will have to pay 3K for 1.83 GHz model, while my American counterpart will get a faster machine at lesser price. Dell sells their 1330 dollar (US Site) computer for 1400 dollars here in India so why is Apple overcharging when there is hardly any import tax by the Government ?

I have a MBP, an iBook and two ipods. Whenever I have contacted Customer support by phone or in person, I found them extremely courteous and helpful. Maybe you guys really missed it.

So in all that writing you are defending your OWN country which is exactly what I am doing in my posts.

 

[Teddy's]

Please no more "my country is better than yours" posts

1) We will see about that in the World Cup in Germany
2) It all reminds me Little Britain with Marjory and Meera

Meera: low in fat
Marjory: I am sorry say again?
Meera: low in fat
Marjory: I am sorry say again?
Meera: low in fat
Marjory: I am sorry say again?

and all the: something about sugar / Fish and chips... Something that we can't get here (Curry) / Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes ...I am sorry say again?

Oh well... let's not fight.

 

[ksz]

Funny thing you mentioned cars, as Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi manufacture most of the cars sold in US on US soil so at least they are made by American workers. And those Toyotas, Hondas, Mitsubishis are more American than the recent American cars who have plants in Canada and Mexico.

I'm not going to take sides in this argument, but I'll mention some statistics:

Toyota: In 1997 used 52% US- and Canadian-made parts. This has increased to 70+% in 2006.

General Motors: In 1997 used 90% US- and Canadian-made parts. This has declined to 80% in 2005.

Ford: 35% of the parts in a Mustang are foreign.

DaimlerChrysler: 75% US/Canadian parts now, down from 79% in 1997.

From http://www.sacbee.com/content/business/story/14261213p-15074841c.html
"People care about U.S. made until they see the price tag," she said. "We can order them, but when we quote the price to a customer they always change their mind and go with the flags we have in the store."

Marketing experts say that many consumers don't have a strong emotional connection to "Made in America," so it's not surprising that shoppers are defecting to cheaper foreign products. Most don't tie their spending to lost U.S. jobs or poor labor conditions in other countries -- they're just trying to find a good deal.

 

[50thVert]

Thank you, Come Again!

 

[Sdashiki]

they Took Our Jawbs!