Pol Pot
Stalin
Tutsi genecide
General Pinochet
Christian Crusades
How about the millions who die of HIV because the catholic church is against Condoms ?
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Apple Pulls Apple Pay Support From Websites Selling White Nationalist and Nazi Apparel [Updated]
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Stalin
Tutsi genecide
General Pinochet
Christian Crusades
How about the millions who die of HIV because the catholic church is against Condoms ?
Slavery was legal.
Segregation was legal.
Rape was defacto legal.
Legality does not determine right and wrong.
Some laws need to be broken.
Violence against Nazis is wrong? Tell that to 3/4 of my ancestors that died in gas chambers. We won't go silently ever again.
Segregation was legal.
Rape was defacto legal.
Legality does not determine right and wrong.
Some laws need to be broken.
Violence against Nazis is wrong? Tell that to 3/4 of my ancestors that died in gas chambers. We won't go silently ever again.
Not prioritizing. Clearly you misunderstand the name. It's not "Only Black Lives Matter", it's "Black Lives Matter Too". As in, no, it's not actually okay for the police to keep shooting unarmed black people to death (especially with no consequences for the officers involved). That's not prioritizing the rights of one race, it's one race asking to be treated as well at the others are. How is that racist?
Private companies in the US are quite free to discriminate. The limit is mostly the Civil Rights Act, ADA and that it can’t be arbitrary and should be within reason. In other words, the door has been wide open, but somewhat more closed after the 1960ies.
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About who has the right to use violence, it is generally the state unless in self defense (although US has a contested militia clause). However when the state have difficulties regulating its own use of force, like in the case of systemic targeting by large group of law enforcement, there is a problem. It doesn’t matter that the majority are doing the right thing if there still are large numbers who don’t. That’s why BLM as a movement exists to try to give awareness so those can be rooted out.
That BLM attracts not only peaceful protesters does not change their cause.
Nazis and white supremacist groups however have a stated goal and a manifest of hate and quite often violence against other groups. It is their essence. That’s whats puts them in a very different ballpark than BLM.
The same applies also to black supremacy or extreme religious groups who support hatred and violence against other religions.
So what about “anti”-movements and rights-movements who who turns to violence. The movement in general must be judged by their cause, however the individuals must be judged by their actions. Violence should not be considered okay, which is why there are laws against it.
Is violence necessary? For own defense and law enforcement it surely is at times. Can violence be justified? Of course for the same reasons. But here are the grey areas. In protests turned violent, usually the oppressed are considered more justified than an oppressor. What about threats that the state doesn’t sanction against? Are Nazis or other hate groups a threat?
By law you can't discriminate based on race, gender, or religion for many things. A cake baker can't say no to a gay customer but a credit card company can say no to white supremacists.
The "Southern Poverty Law Center" is an extreme hate organization Mr Cook. They have had African Americans on their list including Dr. Ben Carson because he is a follower of Christ from the Seventh Day Advent church.
Don't you remember when that man showed up with the Chick-fil-A sandwiches at a Christian organization and was going to kill people listed on the SPLC website as his source?
Fortunately an African American stopped him even though he was injured.
You do not want to support or even be associated with this violent hate terrorist organization.
Don't you remember when that man showed up with the Chick-fil-A sandwiches at a Christian organization and was going to kill people listed on the SPLC website as his source?
Fortunately an African American stopped him even though he was injured.
You do not want to support or even be associated with this violent hate terrorist organization.
Free speech free speech free speech...
Presumably we're talking about the US "First Amendment" - unless I'm missing something (I'm not American so it's quite possible), isn't there a State Action Requirement (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/state_action_requirement) meaning privately owned companies are not actually capable of violating it?
The thing is based on your typical neo-Nazi targets
Being black isn't a choice
Being gay ins't a choice
Being disabled isn't a choice (except maybe that one story I read somewhere of someone deliberately disabling themselves)
Being Jewish... not sure (but then they're not hurting anyone are they?)
But being a neo-Nazi is a choice. You're not just born hating people and calling for them to be put into gas chambers.
Basically if you choose to act like a piece of ****, you should be prepared for the majority of civilised society to turn round and say, well I want nothing to do with you and don't want to make your life easy. If you're strong enough in your convictions, then you'll accept that, and good luck. You still have basic human rights, because two wrongs don't make a right and I think most are level headed enough not to starve/murder/whatever even neo-Nazis, and would rather say "what you're doing is wrong and this is why, and you'll probably be welcome again when you're civilised". But using luxuries like Apple Pay, having your site maintained by a hosting provider, etc, are all privileges not rights, and the companies owning them are under no obligation to provide them to anyone. They can even deny service if they don't like your face, that's their right (but they don't tend to do so as there'd be a huge customer backlash obviously). I don't think however that many people are going to boycott Apple over denying service to neo-Nazis.
You could theoretically, in the US, protect the freedom of neo-Nazis (though why people are so keen to leap to their defence I have no idea) to use Apple Pay by nationalising Apple or having some other state-run electronic payment system. Then perhaps they'd have obligations under the US Constitution and all that. But is that what you want, as I thought the US generally frowned upon government interference in business?
For the record, I'm bisexual and don't think anyone should be forced to bake cakes either for the same reason. It's not like every bakery in the world is going to jump on a "don't bake cakes for gays" bandwagon, as compared to neo-Nazis, the view that gays are pieces of **** is much much less of a consensus. If people feel strongly enough then they'll stop buying cakes there and the problem will go away the same way any other does in a capitalist world.
Presumably we're talking about the US "First Amendment" - unless I'm missing something (I'm not American so it's quite possible), isn't there a State Action Requirement (https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/state_action_requirement) meaning privately owned companies are not actually capable of violating it?
The thing is based on your typical neo-Nazi targets
Being black isn't a choice
Being gay ins't a choice
Being disabled isn't a choice (except maybe that one story I read somewhere of someone deliberately disabling themselves)
Being Jewish... not sure (but then they're not hurting anyone are they?)
But being a neo-Nazi is a choice. You're not just born hating people and calling for them to be put into gas chambers.
Basically if you choose to act like a piece of ****, you should be prepared for the majority of civilised society to turn round and say, well I want nothing to do with you and don't want to make your life easy. If you're strong enough in your convictions, then you'll accept that, and good luck. You still have basic human rights, because two wrongs don't make a right and I think most are level headed enough not to starve/murder/whatever even neo-Nazis, and would rather say "what you're doing is wrong and this is why, and you'll probably be welcome again when you're civilised". But using luxuries like Apple Pay, having your site maintained by a hosting provider, etc, are all privileges not rights, and the companies owning them are under no obligation to provide them to anyone. They can even deny service if they don't like your face, that's their right (but they don't tend to do so as there'd be a huge customer backlash obviously). I don't think however that many people are going to boycott Apple over denying service to neo-Nazis.
You could theoretically, in the US, protect the freedom of neo-Nazis (though why people are so keen to leap to their defence I have no idea) to use Apple Pay by nationalising Apple or having some other state-run electronic payment system. Then perhaps they'd have obligations under the US Constitution and all that. But is that what you want, as I thought the US generally frowned upon government interference in business?
For the record, I'm bisexual and don't think anyone should be forced to bake cakes either for the same reason. It's not like every bakery in the world is going to jump on a "don't bake cakes for gays" bandwagon, as compared to neo-Nazis, the view that gays are pieces of **** is much much less of a consensus. If people feel strongly enough then they'll stop buying cakes there and the problem will go away the same way any other does in a capitalist world.
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Well history is a big factor. The white supremacist groups today support the same exact ideology as the same groups historically supported. And history already showed us the results of that ideology. Why do you think Germany is much more vigilant against hate groups, even though they are a free country?
Being gay does not equate to hate towards others, whether you disagree with their lifestyle or not. But being a white supremacist is based on hate of others. So it's not even close to being a comparison.
This is not a using economics to manipulate agendas(which happens all the time), but more like refusing to to be any part of an historical hate group and ideology.
They have the right but it's a slippery slope unless the group is doing something illegal.
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Being gay is a gender ?
I agree with Apple's decision but I also think that the cake baker should be able to say "no". It could be argued that you are discriminating against the cake baker's religion by forcing them to bake the cake.
[doublepost=1502965693][/doublepost]
Being gay is a gender ?
I agree with Apple's decision but I also think that the cake baker should be able to say "no". It could be argued that you are discriminating against the cake baker's religion by forcing them to bake the cake.
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It very simple to me. Any group promoting hate should NOT be able to use any other company's service (Apple Pay) period. People will bring up BLM, while I personally think the group is a little misguided (I'm talking about how they're trying to get their point across) the simple fact is they don't promote hate. Sure they might have a few kooks in their group, but it's not the group that doing that. I'm sure every group has them (kooks).
Quick reminder that "slippery slope" is a logical fallacy
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope
Mr Cook. Please do not soil the name of MLK. If MLK was alive today he would be on the SPLC list of "hate" as well with people like Dr. Ben Carson because they share the same Christian values. MLK and people who share the same values as him denounce the violent left hate groups that you support.
[doublepost=1502966335][/doublepost]Has Mr. Cook forgotten that the his ACLU fought for people to peaceably assemble?
[doublepost=1502966335][/doublepost]Has Mr. Cook forgotten that the his ACLU fought for people to peaceably assemble?
What does this even mean? What's "a little evil"? If you don't call out a customer for, say, the mini-evil of being rude then you're a hypocrite for refusing to do business with violent white ultranationalists? Can't even pick off the low hanging fruit, eh? No such thing as technically legal but so morally reprehensible that you don't want to condone it? Guess not. (I'm still interested in your answer to Apple Pay for slaves.) I guess this logic must also apply to the "Hey, it's fine to go ahead and do it because I found a legal loophole" philosophy as well. Can't envision yourself saying, "Yeah, I guess I'm technically permitted to do that but I won't have anything to do with it." Current state of legality as the sole source of a moral compass. Suppose, as in 1930s Germany, the law never disallows violent ultranationalism. Suppose, step by step, it becomes the law of the land? At what point do you take a stand against a building violent agenda with hatred and violence as core tenets to achieve an ethnostate? When you cross the line of advocating murder the slope becomes pretty sticky. I hope you can see that.
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As a straight black man .....
Someone simply being gay, bisexual, or transgender is not a direct offense against myself or others, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. An individual would have to give me a legit reason not to serve them, like cussing me out or disrespecting.
Anyone that claims white supremacy, wears any white supremacy uniform or tats, or is already known to be one .... that's equivalent to anyone of any race, sex, religion, and etc, telling me to .... F@$% Off!!
Now the question is, would you serve someone that tells you to F@$% Off?
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Exactly. There is a difference between groups that are founded and based on hate, and groups that just have uncontrollable extremists.
Pulling Apple Pay from businesses that don't agree with your ideology would be the death nail to Apple Pay.
Most businesses near me who support it do not agree or support political and social views. And if you pulled Apple Pay from them customers would acutely be aware and stop using Apple Pay to send a message to Mr. Cook.
[doublepost=1502967857][/doublepost]There's a lot of tension theses days and you can sense it online and in the streets. No wonder God said "Blessed is the peacemakers". America could use some peacemakers right about now to bring left and right together.
Most businesses near me who support it do not agree or support political and social views. And if you pulled Apple Pay from them customers would acutely be aware and stop using Apple Pay to send a message to Mr. Cook.
[doublepost=1502967857][/doublepost]There's a lot of tension theses days and you can sense it online and in the streets. No wonder God said "Blessed is the peacemakers". America could use some peacemakers right about now to bring left and right together.
This is some of the weirdest twisting of the truth I've heard in a long time. What rock did you find it under? The SPLC is not a hate organization, it does not advocate either violence or terrorism. It catalogs the actions of actual hate groups. Yes, they did have Ben Carson on a list. No, not because of what church he attends. They also took him off their list, and they explained at length both why he was put on and then subsequently taken off. Please stop relying on "alt-right" "news" sources.
Some people forget that they were fighting in a war, not a small civil unrest. Two different scenarios with different sets of rules.
I completely agree. Unfortunately, to even suggest that gender dysphoria is anything but normal is to court enormous public backlash. Come to think of it, even considering it as a mental disorder invites it to be granted the status of a disability that should be accommodated. Strange, but I'd never thought of that angle before now.
Again, this is historically incorrect.
Source: https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/02/19/third-genders-new-concept-or-old/
Supporting sources:
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/content/two-spirits_map-html/
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/30/third-gender-a-short-history/
Sex redefined
The idea of two sexes is simplistic. Biologists now think there is a wider spectrum than that.
http://www.nature.com/news/sex-redefined-1.16943
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And GoDaddy stopped hosting their racist website, and the only hosting company they could find to rehost it is in Russia!
That should tell you all you need to know about what is going on in this country right now. Russia wants America to fail, and they are doing EVERYTHING they can to make sure it happens. From feeding fascist groups fake news to supporting trump, who owes them billions, to funding right wing media, and now supporting neo-nazi groups and their messaging.
Putin is behind trump, and he is behind this self-destructive bent that the country is on now. Nothing good will come of this, and it's planned that way.
And while all of this is playing out, corporations are moving in and wholesale being given the keys to what's left. Schools, the EPA, and every other agency of the Federal Government is being assaulted from within by trumpist appointees who work for the industries the agencies once regulated.
Government should NEVER be run as a business because once it is, 'We the people' stop being the owners of the government, the business shareholders do, and they care about one thing, and one thing only: PROFIT.
Didn't you get the memo? We're living in the upside-down now. Those who oppose hate are the real hate groups.
I have made a list, everyone who is deflecting from Nazi's with BLM or ANti-Fa, or first ammendement is now on that list. And it's labeled "Nazi sympathizer".
when Nazi's rear their ugly faces, there's only 1 reasonable response
Instant Condemnation.
If this isn't your reaction to nazism and it's actions, and you defend them in any shape or form, or deflect from them to take attention off Nazi's, you are COMPLICIT in allowing their beliefs to be heard and spread.
If that doesn't make you a Nazi, that makes you complicit and a sympathizer to some level. This is how groups like Nazi's take root, because now they'll feel emboldened that they wont be immediately shut up when they start to speak.
there are very few black and white issues in our lives. But Nazis is one of them.
And if people don't like being labelled with the "nazi sympathizer" brush. Than maybe they should take a strong, hard look at their comments and actions and just whose "rights" they're trying to defend.