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While I think white supremacist groups are deplorable and disgusting, I am concerned when people start denying access to things based on what that individual believes to be morally repugnant.

While I'm not trying to make a direct comparison between the two, there are plenty of people here who say "Hooray that Tim Cook won't let these people use Apple pay", who also said "How dare Oregonian bakers not make a cake for a gay wedding."

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where people use economics to force their morality on others (even when I agree with their morality), and be honest, that's what Apple is doing here. And I've seen people twist any view that they don't believe in into "hate speech."

I am not sure this is an avoidable thing in a free-market society. I deeply disapprove of white (or any kind of racial) supremacist movement. But this sort of thing can and will be done to other groups that Apple's leadership finds objectionable, but which I support.
 
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No, the principle is exactly the same, discrimination.

There is no "stretch". Either discrimination is OK or its not. Its like pregnancy, you either are or you are not.
There is no "good" or "bad" discrimination, its just wrong, and unfortunately that means there are some people who are repugnant (extreme right in this case) are entitled not to be discriminated against.

Interesting position. What are thoughts about our national policies of discriminating against murderers, rapists, and child molesters? We do tend to lock them up, confiscate all of their funds and execute them where permitted by law.
 
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So where would you draw the line? Or do you have no line?

Should we also allow known Islamists access to unusually large amounts of fertilizer? After all, they're just expressing their views, right? Or how about selling a home near a grade school to a serial pedophile? Or even porn to 19 year olds? Who are we to moralize in the marketplace?

Expressing views is one thing. Helping fund and distribute Nazi propaganda and recruitment is quite another, and neither Apple nor any other outlet should enable any or it, let alone profit from it.

Before you reply, if you plan to, ask yourself what Apple should've done if you could've bought a slave with Apple Pay.

That is easy for me. I would provide services or goods to anyone who was legally entitled to purchase them. And for any purpose that was legal.

And that's for the exact reason you point out. Let me put it back on you. How much evil will you support? Either you do business without passing judgement on your customers, or you admit that you are willing to support a little evil, or a moderate amount of evil, but not super evil.

To me someone who thinks they have a responsibility to prevent evil, but will turn a blind eye to it as long as it's not too evil is a hypocrite. It's only up to me to decide if what they are doing is legal under law.
 
There are only two genders. To claim otherwise is to ignore science. You have XY for male and XX for female. This is basic human biology. Anything other than XY, XX pairs is a genetic defect, much like Down syndrome where there is an extra #21 chromosome. An extra X or Y chromosome is a genetic defect.
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The same law enforcement that disproportionately targets people of color? That one?
Just because some police officers are bad does not make all police officers bad.
 
There are only two genders. To claim otherwise is to ignore science. You have XY for male and XX for female. This is basic human biology. Anything other than XY, XX pairs is a genetic defect, much like Down syndrome where there is an extra #21 chromosome. An extra X or Y chromosome is a genetic defect.

Caveat: There are cases of people with ambiguous or both types of genitalia. These are rare occurances and present people with them the opportunity to choose which to become.

The real question is whether or not society should adapt to accommodate people who want to invent other genders.
 
Are you joking? Did you not listen to the eulogy this morning? It was even played on Fox News.

We will not halt a national discussion about the rise in white supremacy, antisemitism, racism, sexism, and hatred because you told us to stop.

You can cover your ears and close your eyes, but the discussion is going to happen, and it needs to happen.



I don’t think there is a rise of white supremacy. It’s always been here and is now bubbling up as a blowback of BLM & Antifa.
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Ok that’s fine. Just do the same for other hate groups (Antifa, BLM.....).

Trump was not wrong when he said both sides were at fault.

Exactly. This is a direct result of Antifa and assault on trump supporters and conservatives in general. If the police would have stopped the crap in Berkeley, San Jose, Baltimore and Dallas this would not have occurred.
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BLM is a hate group? Who are they bigoted towards?

Really? Honestly??
 
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Side note: The photo from that video’s thumbnail of the “Antifa” guy clubbing the police officer has been debunked and linked back to a Getty Images photo from the 2009 protests in Greece.

antifa-or-greece.jpg


http://www.snopes.com/antifa-member-photographed-beating-police-officer/
Just goes to show how silly people are. Too focused on the two men. Look at that curb. Where do you see that in any downtown areas in the US? The speed sign? That's not remotely North American. When was the last time police wore those types of helmets in the US? Even the freaking road markings aren't anything you'd see in the US.

Besides, Golden Dawn are the far-right Nazi-esque party of Greece.
 
Some real ignorant people here, if you think “both sides” are equally bad, and that anti fascists are “worse” than white suremacists, who really are domestic terrorists, than you just might be a Nazi sympathizing trump supporting bonehead yourself.

I’d think a place like MacRumors wouldn’t have members like that, but I guess they are everywhere these days.

Can’t you find a way to say they are all bad, violent and anti-liberty? Or is that just too tough to wrap your mind around?
 
I don’t think there is a rise of white supremacy. It’s always been here and is now bubbling up as a blowback of BLM & Antifa.

I think you are right, but it also is a result of Trump being elected. I think these groups have been laying low for the past few years during the Obama era, but now feel emboldened with Trump in the WH.

And his tepid response isn't going to slow them down.
 
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Yes. It's tolerant and P.C. to accept minority founded/based hate groups. Everyone except white folks can start hate groups.

I've got an idea....how about zero hate groups. While we are at it let's all get under one flag...the US flag....the one that symbolizes all the values of the US that we strive for. We don't need political, rainbow, or other flags....we have ONE. The one people die everyday defending that has and will defeat every other flag that stands against freedom. Our biggest problem as a country is we can't stand under the same flag. Everyone needs their own. I'd love to see less rainbows in my town and more USA! We all want the same things and don't need special groups that end up causing divisions. Just stand under one flag as one people. Gay, black, white, Man, Woman, Indian....we are all represented in red, white, and blue.
You should go live on network and explain that....CNN, FOX, and MSNBC.
I don't think anyone knows what is going on to be quite frankly. Some groups thinks this is 1940s WW2 era, another group(s) thinks we are in some 1800 fighting against confederacy, and some other groups thinks we in some slave era.
You pick..because i'm not Marty McFly traveling to all different eras to change the world.
 
A. Antifa means Anti-Fascism .

B. Please link to where antifa has "caused so much property destruction over the last year"
C. This country WILL and NEEDS to STOP Fascism in it's place NOW.
D. Please link to where "They were also "hired" to pretend to be "nazis"

You really need to do your own reading and research. Look up what BLM did in Baltimore and Dallas. Look up what Antifa did in Berkeley and San Jose.
 
Look up what the Nazi's did then get back to me.

That’s not what we were talking about. These Nazis are not WWII nazis. I guarantee I know more about nazis and what lead to their rise to power than you do. I’m 100% pro liberty and they are definitely against my beliefs. But shutting down offensive speech is why we have a 1st amendment. Fight their ideas with your ideas not with clubs.
 
That’s not what we were talking about. These Nazis are not WWII nazis. I guarantee I know more about nazis and what lead to their rise to power than you do. I’m 100% pro liberty and they are definitely against my beliefs. But shutting down offensive speech is why we have a 1st amendment. Fight their ideas with your ideas not with clubs.

You assume much.
 
LOL, that's what you think Antifa stands for?

It's anti-fascism. Its origins are in Europe. They've been around for quite a while.

When you have politicians at the highest levels scared of an anti-fascist movement, and failing to condemn Nazis, you know you have a problem.

I don't care what they say they stand for. They ARE fascists
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All the MR racists that hide in PRSI are coming out of the woodwork. No space for Nazis.


Oh. Look at you so high and mighty. Project much?
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LOL, what are you on about? Are you confusing antifa for the black Bloc or something? At least what shut is before you post nonsense opinions about it. Antifa is anti-fascist. Their stated goal and organizing is around shutting down fascists and refusing to give them a platform for hate. Property destruction has nothing to do with it. I think you mean the Black Bloc, which is a different group with different motives, that in some cases overlap.


So it’s ok if BLM and Black Bloc overlap? But it’s not ok if nazis overlap with southerners who love their heritage? (Not that I’d want to overlap with a nazi)
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You assume much.

I know I’m right. But it’s ok. I’m not going to change minds on MR.
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I 100% endorse violence against Nazis. So what's your point exactly?

Wow. So pro political violence? You need to be on a list. And you are very intolerant.
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Yes. It's tolerant and P.C. to accept minority founded/based hate groups. Everyone except white folks can start hate groups.

I've got an idea....how about zero hate groups. While we are at it let's all get under one flag...the US flag....the one that symbolizes all the values of the US that we strive for. We don't need political, rainbow, or other flags....we have ONE. The one people die everyday defending that has and will defeat every other flag that stands against freedom. Our biggest problem as a country is we can't stand under the same flag. Everyone needs their own. I'd love to see less rainbows in my town and more USA! We all want the same things and don't need special groups that end up causing divisions. Just stand under one flag as one people. Gay, black, white, Man, Woman, Indian....we are all represented in red, white, and blue.

Exactly. But there is too much power and money in keeping us separated.
 
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Ok that’s fine. Just do the same for other hate groups (Antifa, BLM.....).

Trump was not wrong when he said both sides were at fault.

Of course. All hate should be intolerable and Tim Cook completely and hypocritically contradicted everything that he stated by failing to call out all sides responsible for what happened over the weekend.

Of course, this is also a very familiar pattern for him, as he is very selective at best when it comes to calling out the lack of human rights for those in China, the Middle East and in other parts of the world. He's all about playing SJW except when it might hurt his own bottom line.
 
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Caveat: There are cases of people with ambiguous or both types of genitalia. These are rare occurances and present people with them the opportunity to choose which to become.

The real question is whether or not society should adapt to accommodate people who want to invent other genders.
This still falls under genetic defect.

As for people that invent their gender or “switch sides...” that is a mental disorder and should be treated as such.
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Look up what the Nazi's did then get back to me.
Pointing the finger somewhere else doesn’t change what BLM did nor does it make it acceptable.
 
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