Apple Pulls Some Disney and Pixar Titles From iTunes Store and iTunes in the Cloud [Updated]

[xxBURT0Nxx]

sorry dude you don't get it...

I just showed you a real world case where the punishments for downloading is much more sever than anything you would ever get for stealing a CD, and I could show you more just like it, but for some reason you want to argue that in your fantasy land, it's a less severe crime.

You are justifying piracy by trying to compare it to some fictional crime that is not possible saying that it's only a copy. Well guess what, that DVD on the shelf is also just a copy, that piece of software is also just a copy, so how is it different to steal one copy because it's on a disc than to steal a copy on the internet. Both are copies of something, just because you don't touch one doesn't make it not stealing. If you don't get it, you don't get it.... I'm here to tell you that it's still stealing and trying to compare it to a made up crime which is actually really in no way similar to what we are talking about doesn't make it somehow not stealing.

Saying it's a "different type" of theft means nothing. Stealing from a home is considered burglary, stealing from a store is shoplifting, and stealing a car is grand theft. All "different types" of theft, you are going to tell me that they are not all stealing?

 

[StephenCampbell]

Er, well, okay. But you won't be able to pop those into your stock Bluray player and play them if they are CRL'd.

Again, I'm comparing this to downloaded licensed content (streamed licensed content can be revoked and there is no way to stop that); if you go with the "tech savvy" out on Bluray, the same "tech savvy" out exists for cracking local FairPlay-protected content.



Refer to the AACS specs, or the ~English depiction thereof in http://www.aacsla.com/specifications/AACS_Spec_Prerecorded_Final_0.953.pdf

Specifically, Chapter 2 "Content Revocation". Every licensed AACS player respects the CRL included on every (mass-produced by a "Licensed Replicator") Bluray disk, and if a disk contains a newer version of the CRL than the most recent one it has encountered, "the Licensed Product shall replace the previously stored CRL data, if any, with the newly read CRL data". Further, upon every play of encrypted or unencrypted (!) content, the most recent CRL is used to ensure that the content being played is still properly licensed.

That is, the Mac Blu-Ray Player either does not obey the AACS license requirements (in which case it will soon find that its Host Key is revoked and any new disks will cease to play on it) or it is silently keeping track of the most up-to-date CRL entirely without needing to check in via the Internet, and checking each disk with that most-recent CRL every time it plays a disk.

Yes, in theory if you wiped all of MBRP's local storage, installed it again, and only ever played disks older than the one that contained a CRL which revoked the license for an earlier disk, all would be good. Unlike a hardware Bluray player where such a workaround is much more costly and potentially impossible, you at least have a "workaround" with a software player.

Anyway, like I said, I can't see any indication that CRL has ever been used (unlike the Device Revocation List, which quite assuredly has been used to revoke the license of players who failed to follow the AACS spec to the letter), and honestly would be very surprised if it ever were. But, the technical means is there to revoke your license, and the license is indeed an "at the pleasure of the content providers" license.

Long story short: back up your content so you have it locally. On blurays, I'd back up the content because at least in my house shiny plastic disks have a half-life of approximately six months when they are in heavy use (i.e., my "license" to play that disk is much more likely to be revoked by someone setting it down outside its case and it getting scratched to hell and back than by Disney deciding no one should be able to play Lion King ever again). I completely agree that this is a better situation than relying on streaming. Just don't assume that you "own" anything. It can be made very difficult for you to use.

You said it. My entire Blu-Ray collection will always be playable by my Mac, no matter what happens, because they all play, without an internet connection, in the current version of Mac Blu-Ray Player, which I will always have saved and backed up on my Mac even as newer versions come out.

That's all I was saying. Nobody can remove my ability to watch my Blu-Ray collection.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

You said it. My entire Blu-Ray collection will always be playable by my Mac, no matter what happens, because they all play, without an internet connection, in the current version of Mac Blu-Ray Player, which I will always have saved and backed up on my Mac even as newer versions come out.

That's all I was saying. Nobody can remove my ability to watch my Blu-Ray collection.

And somebody can remove my ability to watch my movie collection on my hard drive?

Your bluray collection is not somehow any less likely to being magically deleted than my hard drive is. If anything my hard drive and its backup are a much better solution than your blurays because they are all in one spot, take up almost NO room, and can be taken anywhere all at once. And I don't have to worry about a disc being lost, stolen, misplaced, scratched, broken, burned, lost in a flood, tornado, hurricane, etc.

People need to stop acting like these movies were deleted from peoples computers because that is 100% NOT the case.

 

[Xiroteus]

sorry dude you don't get it...

I can say the same thing. It has nothing to do with not getting it. It's a different opinion, we see things differently.

I just showed you a real world case where the punishments for downloading is much more sever than anything you would ever get for stealing a CD, and I could show you more just like it, but for some reason you want to argue that in your fantasy land, it's a less severe crime.

In that case it was. I tend to base how bad a crime is on my own personal moral standards. Note - Base opinions on, not actions, we can think however we wish yet our actions mostly need to follow the law.

You are justifying piracy by trying to compare it to some fictional crime that is not possible saying that it's only a copy.

Seriously? How many times must I say that I'm not justifying piracy?

It does not matter if it's fictional or not. It's a concept.

Well guess what, that DVD on the shelf is also just a copy, that piece of software is also just a copy, so how is it different to steal one copy because it's on a disc than to steal a copy on the internet.

It's a copy that was placed on disc that the store owner had to purchase and if stolen they would be out that money along with possible profits if it had sold. Downloading a copy from the internet goes one of two ways. Possible lost sale or no loss at all with no proof that any copy was lost to said person. Wrong? Yes. Same as stealing that DVD from the store? No.

Of course one could argue that digital piracy can be worse because it can be uploading thousands or millions of times vs one copy being stolen. I'm sure it would bother the store more if their copy was stolen.

Both are copies of something, just because you don't touch one doesn't make it not stealing.

Never said it's not a type of theft.

If you don't get it, you don't get it.... I'm here to tell you that it's still stealing and trying to compare it to a made up crime which is actually really in no way similar to what we are talking about doesn't make it somehow not stealing.

How is it not similar? That's exactly what downloading would be. When people say that downloading one copy of a film is just as bad or the same as stealing a tangible copy from a store I say, no, that's like going to the store and making a copy of said item. That's what downloading is, doesn't make it right though. I got tired of people acting like it's the same as stealing it from the store when that's a poor example.

Saying it's a "different type" of theft means nothing. Stealing from a home is considered burglary, stealing from a store is shoplifting, and stealing a car is grand theft. All "different types" of theft, you are going to tell me that they are not all stealing?

Of course they are all stealing. I'm saying downloading is a different type of theft than stealing tangible goods.

We likely have completely different views on such a subject. Still not trying to justify it.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

yes... you see that in an imaginary world, in comparison to imaginary crimes, you don't think the crime is as bad.

It's not a matter of opinion, when your opinion is based entirely on fantasy my friend.

 

[Xiroteus]

yes... you see that in an imaginary world, in comparison to imaginary crimes, you don't think the crime is as bad.

It's not a matter of opinion, when your opinion is based entirely on fantasy my friend.

You have never had anyone base something on a legitimate hypothetical or fictional concept to get their point across?

How does being fictional change the valid idea behind it?

You can use a hypothetical example when it's relevant to the discussion.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

because you are comparing it to an imaginary crime that is not possible, and saying that in your idea of a "practical" world, the crime wouldn't be as bad.

That's like me saying piracy isn't bad in the land of the hobbits because they have magic wands so they aren't really stealing, they are just using magic.

You can't argue a real world issue with some fantasy.

 

[Mackan]

How can they pull content that's been paid for? This is why I don't buy movies from iTunes or anywhere else as a download. I consider this THEFT and expect a class-action suit to be filed.

When you pay for digital content, you don't own it, you "rent" it.

 

[Xiroteus]

because you are comparing it to an imaginary crime that is not possible, and saying that in your idea of a "practical" world, the crime wouldn't be as bad.

That's like me saying piracy isn't bad in the land of the hobbits because they have magic wands so they aren't really stealing, they are just using magic.

You can't argue a real world issue with some fantasy.

Even if you can make it out of thin air at home it would still be a type of theft if it was a movie, book, music etc...

That's not the point I'm trying to make. I only use it when someone says it's the same as stealing a dvd from a store. So I use a fictional example of saying, no, downloading would be like making a copy of that item. Not being possible and fictional is not relevant in such an example.

None fictional example with a comic or magazine. No, that would be like taking pictures of it while at the store so you could read it later. Same idea behind it one being fictional and the other being possible.

 

[StephenCampbell]

And somebody can remove my ability to watch my movie collection on my hard drive?

Your bluray collection is not somehow any less likely to being magically deleted than my hard drive is. If anything my hard drive and its backup are a much better solution than your blurays because they are all in one spot, take up almost NO room, and can be taken anywhere all at once. And I don't have to worry about a disc being lost, stolen, misplaced, scratched, broken, burned, lost in a flood, tornado, hurricane, etc.

People need to stop acting like these movies were deleted from peoples computers because that is 100% NOT the case.

I know that. I was never arguing against storing movies on hard drives. I was just arguing that my Blu-Ray discs are secure, that I have the media on them, and it can't be vaporized long-distance.

If there was a convenient way to rip the Blu-Rays into quicktime files that played at FULL quality, I'd probably be storing all my movies on my computer… but for now this is fine for me. I would need over 5TB to store and backup my whole collection too...

 

[Woyzeck]

"Nobody needs a DVD/Blu Ray drive any more."
"You're from the dinosaur era."

That's exactly one of the reasons why I still prefer physical media. Once I purchase it it's mine, not theirs. I can use it how often I like, on as many devices as I like, where I like. Heck, I can even lend it to other people or sell it.

 

[xxBURT0Nxx]

I know that. I was never arguing against storing movies on hard drives. I was just arguing that my Blu-Ray discs are secure, that I have the media on them, and it can't be vaporized long-distance.

If there was a convenient way to rip the Blu-Rays into quicktime files that played at FULL quality, I'd probably be storing all my movies on my computer… but for now this is fine for me. I would need over 5TB to store and backup my whole collection too...

handbrake and makeMKV + a bluray burner... check them out.

And there are ways to easily transcode movies to save a ton of space with no noticeable loss in video/audio quality. Just because a movie studio has 50gb of space on a disc and they decide not to compress any of the data does not mean that you need to also have a 50gb file to keep the same quality.

"Nobody needs a DVD/Blu Ray drive any more."
"You're from the dinosaur era."

That's exactly one of the reasons why I still prefer physical media. Once I purchase it it's mine, not theirs. I can use it how often I like, on as many devices as I like, where I like. Heck, I can even lend it to other people or sell it.

oh, and I can't do that with a physical copy on my hard drive?? Crazy!!

 

[rikscha]

That does not mean it is justified though and it could have been more transparent, e.g. by clearly stating that iTunes in the Cloud should be seen as an extra service not related to the initial download. That is not how Apple markets it, the idea is to have access to your films at any time. There could be several reasons why content may become unavailable, like court orders, legal issues (e.g. censored content) or even a shutdown of the iTunes Store itself. There is no reason why content should become unavailable purely because the copyright holder decides so. That this is part of a marketing scheme may explain why new customers cannot buy it anymore, but not why it has become unavailable for existing customers.

Arbitrary pulling of content is an unfair exercise of copyright and detrimental to consumer trust which is what is holding the development of online film stores back. It's simply shameful and Apple should prevent it.

I agree on a second thought

 

[cyclotron451]

This is why I download all iTunes purchases to my media drive and don't leave them for in the Cloud watching. While some content may be there, studios add and remove content. Once it is on your machine, it is yours to keep ...

I agree with you, except the DRM'ed digital .m4v files that we have stored on our media drives often seem to phone 'home' for permission to be watched? (when I had a dns error on my ATV2 nothing stored would play as there was no authorisation from Apple) I can see a situation where the authorisation servers might one day say "NO" to our stored content(*), but I suppose at least one might look into DRM stripping then...

(*)is this Disney removal linked to the way they used to manipulate VHS then DVD sales by removing the old titles from sale for a few years - then re-releasing re-mastered versions with a big flourish?

 

[nia820]

This is absolute bull. If someone paid for it its their's to re download all they want.

But this is why I don't trust icloud media completely. I keep a copy of every movie I downloaded from itunes on my mbp just in case I'm in a place with no connection or some crap like this happens .

glad I purchased lion king on dvd when it came out of the Disney vault and not from iTunes.

 

[StephenCampbell]

handbrake and makeMKV + a bluray burner... check them out.

And there are ways to easily transcode movies to save a ton of space with no noticeable loss in video/audio quality. Just because a movie studio has 50gb of space on a disc and they decide not to compress any of the data does not mean that you need to also have a 50gb file to keep the same quality.

Well I have an external 16X LG Blu-Ray burner, got the best thing I could find. I just haven't gotten into ripping Blu-Rays because there's no software that's just click, make a full-size QuickTime file of the movie. That's what I'd want. A one-button software that just transfers the movie into a QuickTime file of 25GB or 30GB or whatever it is.

And since all my Blu-Rays work with Mac Blu-Ray Player I'm okay for now either way.

 

[The Phazer]

It's DRM that's the problem. To be fair Apple have been pretty vocal in their opposition to DRM and did successfully get it removed from music purchases so there's no way any license server could deactivate or prevent you from playing music or of passing it down to your kids. Unfortunately, the movie studios are much bigger and harder to break. It's such a massive industry but in the end a people's revolt will force their hand. Consumers have the power to vote with their wallets.

Apple don't allow video to be sold on the iTunes store without DRM, even if the producer wants to.

Apple doesn't allow apps to be distributed on the app store without DRM, even if the producer wants to (which is why the original VLC app got pulled).

Apple are not the paragon of virtue you're making them out to be, they just have better PR about it. Even on music, Apple achieved that by essentially breaking the file system on the iPod and every portable device since - they just moved the control into their OS rather than the files themselves.

 

[69650]

This worries me. I've purchased a lot of content from iTunes and simply don't have the hard disk space to store it all locally. I've sent Apple several emails requesting that they implement some sort of digital locker where customers can store their content without having to download it so they can just stream it as and when instead. Maybe that would solve problems like this.

 

[Cynicalone]

They have been added back as of last night.

 

[0098386]

They can't pull those blurays from my home .

 

[gopnick]

Glad to see this content is back online.

Unfortunately, I think some damage has already been done. I've been feverishly moving from BR/DVD to iTunes content. I'm now reconsidering that. This isn't the first time purchased content has disappeared from my account, and it probably won't be the last.

It just goes to show that we don't live in an ownership culture. Think you own that song? Think again. Think you own a copy of that movie? Think again. Think you own your home that you've completely paid off and owe nothing on? Try not paying your property taxes to the government and see how long you own it...

We aren't allowed to own far too many things. It's pathetic.

 

[Bishope1999]

I know that. I was never arguing against storing movies on hard drives. I was just arguing that my Blu-Ray discs are secure, that I have the media on them, and it can't be vaporized long-distance.

If there was a convenient way to rip the Blu-Rays into quicktime files that played at FULL quality, I'd probably be storing all my movies on my computer… but for now this is fine for me. I would need over 5TB to store and backup my whole collection too...

Couldn't you just play the m2ts files on your other players without the need of touching the original file? I think the best option is to continue enjoying them from your discs though

handbrake and makeMKV + a bluray burner... check them out.

And there are ways to easily transcode movies to save a ton of space with no noticeable loss in video/audio quality. Just because a movie studio has 50gb of space on a disc and they decide not to compress any of the data does not mean that you need to also have a 50gb file to keep the same quality.



oh, and I can't do that with a physical copy on my hard drive?? Crazy!!

But handbrake isn't a more advanced video encoder than avc or vc-1. Blu-ray is already a compressed file, when compared to the original source, if he were to reduce the a 40 GB movies down to a 15 GB or 20 GB movie, he will have a noticable loss in quality. The audio won't be a lossless track either, it would be converted to a lossy track.

Only way to reduce the size of a Blu-ray movie without losing quality is going to be with a more advance video encoder like .h265. Once that becomes easily available, then he will be able to reduce the size of the Blu-ray files. Similar way to making a smaller avc file from an original mpeg-2 source. At least that will work for the current Blu-ray movies as that .h265 format will likely become the norm for the 4k Blu-ray movies later on.

 

[Boston007]

People need to stop acting like these movies were deleted from peoples computers because that is 100% NOT the case.

YES IT IS

1. Did they buy the movie to own? YES
2. If you own a movie can you play it anytime you want? YES
3. If they remove it from you watching it, have they deleted it? YES

----------

Glad to see this content is back online.

Unfortunately, I think some damage has already been done. I've been feverishly moving from BR/DVD to iTunes content. I'm now reconsidering that. This isn't the first time purchased content has disappeared from my account, and it probably won't be the last.

It just goes to show that we don't live in an ownership culture. Think you own that song? Think again. Think you own a copy of that movie? Think again. Think you own your home that you've completely paid off and owe nothing on? Try not paying your property taxes to the government and see how long you own it...

We aren't allowed to own far too many things. It's pathetic.

If you really want to own the movie, buy the blu ray. Most come with a UV code for the digital content. You have the physical disc AND the digital movie. It's a win-win.

 

[esf215]

i think people are confused. When you buy a movie on iTunes and after downloading the movie, that is your copy that you own. You are responsible for its safekeeping. Them giving you an option to keep re-downloading the file or to stream it is really generous on their part. Apple could charge you a fee to stream your movie thru the cloud. I brought the lion king and when they removed it i was still able to watch it on my apple tv, because i have the file on my iMac

Put it this way if you buy a blu-ray from best buy and lose it, you can go back to best buy and demand a new copy.

 

[Boston007]

i think people are confused. When you buy a movie on iTunes and after downloading the movie, that is your copy that you own. You are responsible for its safekeeping. Them giving you an option to keep re-downloading the file or to stream it is really generous on their part. Apple cloud charge you a fee to stream your movie thru the cloud. I brought lion lion keep and and why they removed it i was still able to watch it on my apple tv, because i have the file on my iMac

Put it this way if you buy a blu-ray from best buy and lose it, you can go back to best buy and demand a new copy.

OH I thought they removed it from the hard drive. Didn't know it was the other way.