Apple Pushes Back Against iPhone USB-C Regulations in India

[SnowCrocodile]

Oh dear...

Streaming music report sheds light on battle between Spotify, Amazon, Apple, and Google

Spotify reportedly controls 31 percent of the market.

www.theverge.com

Spotify handing Google, Apple and Amazon their backsides all at the same time.

Lol. Spotify is a major global tech player now ? Amazon market cap is 1.5 trillion, Apple 3 Trillion, Google 1.7 trillion, Spotify with their $38 bln is handing them all their rears ? That must be why they are laying off 17% of their workers as we speak...

Is this really the best and the biggest new tech company that the 438 million strong, $19 trillion in GPD European Union was able to produce in the last 30+ years ? Oh dear, indeed...

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Lol. Spotify is a major global tech player now ? Amazon market cap is 1.5 trillion, Apple 3 Trillion, Google 1.7 trillion, Spotify with their $38 bln is handing them all their rears ? That must be why they are laying off 17% of their workers as we speak...

Is this really the best and the biggest new tech company that the 438 million strong, $19 trillion in GPD European Union was able to produce in the last 30+ years ? Oh dear, indeed...

Nope. You asked for a global tech product or service that rivals what has come out of the US. They are are lapping the US services in the market they compete with them in.

How many staff have Amazon and Google shed this year? Try to construct a coherent argument, you are all over the place.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Nope. You asked for a global tech product or service that rivals what has come out of the US. They are are lapping the US services in the market they compete with them in.

How many staff have Amazon and Google shed this year? Try to construct a coherent argument, you are all over the place.

I am all over the place with you using Spotify as a proof of EU supremacy in the tech field ?

OK, so here's a very simple argument.

Here's the list of top 100 tech companies in the world, by market cap. Among the first 30, only 2 are European and the largest one is at #13. The US companies occupy the top 7 spots, and overall 23 out of the top 30 spots. (Spotify is at #80, by the way).

Largest tech companies by market cap

List of the largest tech companies by market capitalization, all rankings are updated daily.

companiesmarketcap.com

How come that the EU, comparable in size and wealth to the US, has such a poor showing on that list ? Nearly all of the major, global-scale European corporations are in the older, "legacy" fields and have been created and grew huge decades before I was even born. Somehow, the Eurozone failed to produce many new tech companies from scratch - there's no European stories similar to Apple, Dell or Facebook, all created by virtual nobodies with minimal starting capital. The talent is there, the population size is there, the education is there, the wealth is there. But somehow, the environment doesn't seem to be as encouraging for creation and growth of new companies. It's almost like in order to grow big in the EU, you have to already be near the top. So, is Spotify really the best answer that the 428 mln people, $19 trillion GDP EU has to America's Apple or Google or Amazon or Microsoft or Dell or nVidia or... ?

 

[cmwade77]

Here is a thought, ask them to grandfather in the old phones if Apple agrees to provide an lightning to USB adapter free of charge with each old phone sold. But this only applies to phones already assembled by a certain date, all phones assembled after that date need to have USB-C built-in.

 

[Tagbert]

No, they wouldn't. See this video of a YouTube user replacing the ports themselves.
(Unfortunately, preview in external sites is disabled.)

If a regular user can do it at home, then Apple can definitely implement the changes themselves.

Sure. Apple can just send all those phones to this guy! problem solved.

 

[amartinez1660]

You know what could have solved this? If they hadn't dragged their feet on this for years. These rules have been years in the making, both in the EU and India. Heck, the EU even request a voluntary co-operation to self-regulate in the market so it would have to legislate it. Apple tried to run out the clock to cash in as much as they could and now they find out they were constantly holding their hands in the fire. Had Apple listened (or more specifically, actually followed through on their promises) to the EU nearly a decade ago, these laws wouldn't even exist at all. Tough luck...

I don’t know, maybe if the endeavors were for real progress and new technology, but it isn’t…
USB-C was published in 2014, that’s soon to be ALREADY 10 years old (you heard that right!): this whole conundrum to make everything halt forever to USB-C, is for a 10 years old connector.
What if tomorrow some hypothetical USB-F that’s 10x faster and tinier gets developed? Tough luck, dare to use it and get fined for 25% of worldwide revenue or something.
At least if the laws had been about Thunderbolt 4+, that would at least really mean some connectivity and speed progress. Macs have had thunderbolt since a long time and iPads too since quite some years (they didn’t drag their feet there at least).

At least we can be honest about it, this isn’t “for the future”, it’s just a nothing burger trying to homogenize all devices to be exactly the same… which totally does have a positive angle, granted, but that’s as positive as saying that from now own all bikes, cars, buses and trucks have to have five seats, four wheels and be of a specific volume “or else!”, effectively making them all some sort of Crossover/small-SUVs

 

[amartinez1660]

Sure. Apple can just send all those phones to this guy! problem solved.

It’s only several many tons of hundreds of millions of devices, easy peasy.

It is well known in these forums that thinking in scales of economy, production and manufacturing is of crazy people, like those crazy scientists that say the earth is round.
If one guy can do it without any sort of regulation, lawsuit hazards or care in the world OF COURSE Apple can do it starting tomorrow at a global scale; years of validation, certification and all sorts of safety and legal processes be damned.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

And what are you going to do with the old ports and cases? Throw them away? That's e-waste, and that's what we want to reduce.

Nah, they are just going to reduce their orders for those parts, so they won't even be manufactured. You don't really think that the older models being sold by Apple brand new where all actually manufactured when those models first came out, and have just been sitting in storage do you? The batteries would have degenerated for starters.

 

[svish]

Existing models may be exempted just like in the EU

 

[H2SO4]

Please explain your point here for us?

Weird that I got a downvote for asking someone to explain their position. Oh how it hurts. /s

I think it says more about those that actually took the time to do it.

 

[UncleMac]

Lightning is less than 2 years older than USB-C, it’s smaller and more robust. I also get that USB-C allows faster USB interfaces and more capabilities in general, but how cannot you understand why someone would want to stay with lightning? I’ve talked to some friends with iPhones who don’t read MacRumors, and most of them are pissed off because Apple changed to USB-C! Isn’t that enough for you all to understand?

I'll try to make a list why I don't understand:

- It's a proprietary connection - one could easily argue that the main reason it was introduced was to sell more Apple accessories and tie people in to the Apple universe
- It has not been developed since its its introduction ie to support newer USB standards (of course because of its technical limitations)
- Pretty much all other devices have adopted USB-C today
- EUs proposal to make USB-C a standard connection was tabled in 2020. This provided Apple and everyone else with a pretty clear clue of what was coming
- The common charger directive was voted over almost two years ago and unanimously agreed on. Yet another clue for Apple on what was coming
- The common charger directive was agreed and signed 1,5 years ago. Another clear clue.
- It came as a surprise to no-one that other countries and regions would follow the EU

I've talked to some friends with iPhones who do not read Macrumors and they all support the introduction of USB-C in all Apple devices.

​

 

[chucker23n1]

- It's a proprietary connection - one could easily argue that the main reason it was introduced was to sell more Apple accessories and tie people in to the Apple universe

I think that was a secondary goal at best. The primary goal was probably to replace the Dock connector with something much more modern, versatile, and convenient. USB-C simply wasn't ready at the time.

The idea that Apple wanted a proprietary cable to make some extra licensing money is really one from a bygone era. Yes, in the 2000s, there were all those accessories for the Dock connector, e.g. in hotel rooms. Alarm clocks, for example. But these days, who buys a Lightning accessory?

- It has not been developed since its its introduction ie to support newer USB standards (of course because of its technical limitations)

This is true, but not that important on iPhones. It's only recently that there are edge cases where you might want more speed, for example. The reality is that very few people use those cables for anything except charging. "I wish I could output 4K over HDMI from my iPhone" or "…connect a USB device" or "…transfer files faster than USB 2.0" are things some iPhone users might say, but it's got to the in the single digits percentage-wise, if even that.

- Pretty much all other devices have adopted USB-C today

Yes, which is why I'm pretty sure Apple would've moved to it sooner or later anyway.

- EUs proposal to make USB-C a standard connection was tabled in 2020. This provided Apple and everyone else with a pretty clear clue of what was coming

And they did!

- The common charger directive was voted over almost two years ago and unanimously agreed on. Yet another clue for Apple on what was coming
- The common charger directive was agreed and signed 1,5 years ago. Another clear clue.
- It came as a surprise to no-one that other countries and regions would follow the EU

But India isn't following the EU. They're applying their directive to old devices as well, which creates complications especially in India, where a lot of iPhones sold are older models.

 

[SanderEvers]

Nah, they are just going to reduce their orders for those parts, so they won't even be manufactured. You don't really think that the older models being sold by Apple brand new where all actually manufactured when those models first came out, and have just been sitting in storage do you? The batteries would have degenerated for starters.

They might have supply of parts per phone, used for repair.

 

[H2SO4]

I've talked to some friends with iPhones who do not read Macrumors and they all support the introduction of USB-C in all Apple devices.

​

Anecdotally. ALL but two of the people I've spoken to personally about this are not against the change to USBc, (probably 30% of those don't really care what change is made and the rest actively want USBC, myself included).

 

[UncleMac]

I think that was a secondary goal at best. The primary goal was probably to replace the Dock connector with something much more modern, versatile, and convenient. USB-C simply wasn't ready at the time.

The idea that Apple wanted a proprietary cable to make some extra licensing money is really one from a bygone era. Yes, in the 2000s, there were all those accessories for the Dock connector, e.g. in hotel rooms. Alarm clocks, for example. But these days, who buys a Lightning accessory?

Secondary goal?

First of all at the time of introduction wired accessories was very common. The bluetooth Apple AirPods were for instance first introduced in December 2016.

The lightning authentication protocol required a significant investment through the MFi program for 3rd party accessories manufacturers to even be approved for use with an Apple Device. Then the fees per connector.... How is this consumer friendly?

 

[H2SO4]

Companies are made up of people. They make profits, just like any of us. Which is a great incentive, just like for any of us. If I want to be a customer of a company, I’m able to do so.

Governments are made of people. With a very indirect system (since you mentioned the EU), they’re elected. These people (who “represent” the majority) can really throw me under the bus, because I’m forced to be their customer. Good governments do that as less as possible.

Governments can apply rules on companies, but not the other way around.

Then the EU forces Apple to take a decision (USB-C) which is probably very unpopular for the majority of its users, and you pretend that I have to side with the EU just because “it’s fighting against a company”?

Of course I will defend a trillion dollar company that doesn’t harm anybody against an obscure body government that wants to impose their narrow vision of the world to everybody. Because I’m not fighting people/companies depending on whether they’re poorer or richer, I’m driven by fairness and justice.

How do you substantiate this claim?
The EU is obscure, or that particular part of it??? lol. Are you from the US?

 

[chucker23n1]

Secondary goal?

I think so. I think aspects such as "more convenient to plug in" came first.

First of all at the time of introduction wired accessories was very common.

Was it? What Lightning accessory other than a charging cable or a dock (for charging) was ever hugely popular?

The bluetooth Apple AirPods were for instance first introduced in December 2016.

Yeah, but who the hell had Lightning headphones, other than the ones that came with the iPhone 7?

 

[ric22]

Does India want to manufacture Apple products and generate jobs?

Apple isn’t about to eat supply chain parts for older phones. Every most recent phone 15 line and onward has USB-C and Apple purchased likely several hundred million interfaces in advance like they do for lightning at a one or two year lead amount.

You think Apple have a stack of "several hundred million" Lightning connectors piled up? 👀

 

[AlexESP]

How do you substantiate this claim?
The EU is obscure, or that particular part of it??? lol. Are you from the US?

I can’t, but there are no statistics supporting the contrary either. And I bet you’ll have the same experience as me: people who are not into Macrumors, reddit, etc. are pissed off by the change to USB-C. It makes sense.

I’m from Europe, and the election of the commission is very obscure. It’s not really elected by the european parlament. Instead, each country’s government elects one minister after negotiation. The complete opposite of direct democracy. No one really cares about european elections, because everyone knows everything is decided behind the scenes. So claiming the EU commission represents “the people” (as if any government could claim that) is a stretch.

 

[AlexESP]

I'll try to make a list why I don't understand:

- It's a proprietary connection - one could easily argue that the main reason it was introduced was to sell more Apple accessories and tie people in to the Apple universe
- It has not been developed since its its introduction ie to support newer USB standards (of course because of its technical limitations)
- Pretty much all other devices have adopted USB-C today
- EUs proposal to make USB-C a standard connection was tabled in 2020. This provided Apple and everyone else with a pretty clear clue of what was coming
- The common charger directive was voted over almost two years ago and unanimously agreed on. Yet another clue for Apple on what was coming
- The common charger directive was agreed and signed 1,5 years ago. Another clear clue.
- It came as a surprise to no-one that other countries and regions would follow the EU

I've talked to some friends with iPhones who do not read Macrumors and they all support the introduction of USB-C in all Apple devices.

​

Almost everything you said is true (but i.e. accessory revenue because of lightning is irrelevant), and I acknowledged it! USB-C is faster, it’s used in other devices, etc.

However, given that THE main function people want from a phone port is charging, can’t you see there’s a very relevant dilemma about switching to USB-C?

First of all, depending on the context, there are still more lighting than USB-C cables. Most people will understand better what you need by asking for an “iPhone cable” than USB-C. Also, people want to use their old accessories without dongles… as well as wired CarPlay. Lightning’s smaller volume makes it easier to include features which matter to all users.

How can so many people be surprised that Apple kept lightning, when thinking for 2 minutes makes you realise this is a very grey case?

We can’t compare personal experiences, both will be true, but then you can see how not all social circles are the MacRumors bubble.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

So, I may be an odd one here, judging by the posts, but in our family, we only use the cables in cars. Everyone has a 3rd party wireless charging stand at home, wife and I also have them at work, and when I travel I take it with me (I can charge my phone, watch, and AirPods on the same stand). If / when I get a car with a wireless CarPlay, I probably won't touch a Lightning cable in a year. If Apple wanted so bad to sell people extra accessories, why would they introduce wireless charging in most of their phones and wearables, and moved MacBooks and tablets to USB-C without any governmental intervention ?

 

[nateo200]

Apple has asked the Indian government to exempt existing iPhones from new rules that require smartphones sold in the country to have a USB-C charging port, reports Reuters.

India wants to replicate an upcoming European Union rule that requires all smartphones to implement the USB-C charging standard. However, according to a new report, Apple has told India its local production targets will be hit if the country requires all iPhones to have USB-C charging ports.
Only the newest iPhone 15 models currently have the USB-C port. The problem for Apple is that many consumers in India prefer to buy older models like the iPhone 12 and iPhone 13, which Apple produces in India for local sales and exports as part of its adherence to the country's PLI scheme.
While the EU regulation comes into effect in December 2024, India has said it wants compliance by June 2025. According to the report, Apple told officials it can comply with that timeline if existing models are exempted from the rules, but will need 18 months beyond 2024 if they are not. India's IT ministry is said to have decided to review its request in light of the meeting and will reach a decision later.

Article Link: Apple Pushes Back Against iPhone USB-C Regulations in India

For once I think Apple is sticking up for the consumer even if it is more out of self interest. India cannot afford to do this and make it retroactive. How many Indians can afford an iPhone with USB-C?

 

[nateo200]

That sounds like you have a Elon fetish.

Nice projection.