Apple Puts Legacy Final Cut Studio Back on Sale

[Chupa Chupa]

I'm not sure if Apple cares. Remember the pandemonium on these boards when Apple TV was announced and that the first Apple TV would not get a software update and would no longer be sold. All the first gen Apple TV owners raised hell...then forgot about it and just added the new Apple TV to their collections.

Saw it with Xserve, will see it with the iPod Classic. And Apple won't care.

That's true, but I think there is one key difference -- none of those affect or have the potential to affect Mac sales. AppleTV isn't even regarded as a real product by Apple, but rather "a hobby." Despite all the complaining that Apple doesn't care about pro users, it does, because it needs their imprimatur.

Apple saw big shops preparing to movie away from FCP and Apple hardware. It's that latter that hurts Apple in the pocket so they had to eat their hat so to speak.

Also there was history here when iMovie 08 shipped which, of course, was worthless pile of suck. Apple back peddled and let user d/l iMovie HD 6. The same is going on here. Apple is one of those rare companies that gets to do "do overs" because 99.1% of the time they are on the money.

 

[shadowband]

epic fail

I made the switch to mac back in 1999 specifically because of Final Cut Pro. I was looking for a "turn-key" non-linear video editing system, and this fit the bill nicely. I'm dumbfounded as to why Apple is essentially killing off this product after gaining so much market share in this area.

Based on the negative (to put it mildly) reaction to iMovie '08, you would think that it would be obvious that this new "paradigm" to video editing was DOA. The user community was so irate over the changes to iMovie '08 that Apple released iMovie HD 6 as a free download (which I still use). So what does Apple take away from this user community backlash to iMovie '08? In an epic fail move, Apple decides to repeat the iMovie '08 failure with their professional Final Cut Pro suite.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[blackhand1001]

You do realise that isn't down to Apple, right?

Yes it is. Even if there are no new cpus available you can update the graphics cards, Add more ram standard, and change other minor things. These are things that dell does with its pro machines on a regular basis that if apple cared about the pro market should also do. Heck even throwing in a thunderbolt card wouldn't have been difficult not that thunderbolt is going anywhere anytime soon. No external devices are even coming close to using that much bandwidth and the cost cutting move of making it electrical instead of optical fiber like the original concept light peak (faster btw) is annoying since it through the costs to the consumer having to buy a ridiculously expensive active cable instead of a simple fiber cable. Sony uses light peak on their new z series to power an external GPU dock station something the technology actually is useful for.

 

[samcraig]

IMHO Apple shouldn't have caved on this. They do better (these days) when they stick to their guns. Even seemingly wrong decisions made by Apple tend to turn out right. Adoption of FCPX would have occurred.

Even if the decision to cave was correct this time, I shudder at the thought of this becoming a trend. The Apple of our time works best when they go with their instincts and take risks, despite initial consumer and pundit criticism. There will be exceptions, but by and large this "we know best strategy" really pays off in the long run, and the few casualties that occur because of it (for the greater good) should be written off as acceptable losses, given the overall effectiveness of the strategy.

Once again, it might have been justified this time, but Apple needs to be very careful about buckling in the face of criticism.

Our time? How old are you - 10? I've been around longer than Apple. And Apple, along with EVERY SINGLE COMPANY in the world makes missteps, mistakes and so forth.

You can choose to look as this as caving. You can choose to look at this as a smart business decision. You can basically choose to INTERPRET this maneuver any way you want.

But in the best interest of the CUSTOMER - this was a right decision. They haven't pulled FCPX. The CUSTOMER can choose between either program for now which is how it should be.

LTD - You often (always?) have trouble admitting that having a CHOICE is better for the consumer. For you - it's the Apple way or the highway. Things aren't that black and white. They rarely are.

You can't force a square peg into a round hole. "adoption of FCPX would have occurred." That's nice to fantasize about... but that's not exactly honest. There are many who converted (back) to Adobe after FCPX. And there are also many who bought FCPX and reverted back to using FCP 7.

Dare I reference pop culture - "Resistance if Futile" is not a way to conduct business nor should anyone be promoting that...

 

[Winni]

Based on the negative (to put it mildly) reaction to iMovie '08, you would think that it would be obvious that this new "paradigm" to video editing was DOA.

I hate to rain on your parade, but the new paradigm to video editing that was introduced with iMovie 08 is pure genius in my book. I just LOVE this new approach. The guys at Apple took something that was unnecessarily complex and made it simple and intuitive and FUN to use while at the same time providing FAST results. Awesome! That is exactly why people buy Apple products.

I haven't seen Final Cut X myself, and I don't make my living editing videos. But from everything I've read, it were certain missing features that caused the user base to cry out loud, but NOT the paradigm change.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Sometimes even giants here the little people if they yell loud and long enough...

There be giants here?

 

[manu chao]

I agree 100%, but I am curious to read the "fanboy" take on this news.

The 'fanboys' like me said on day 1 (or week 1) that Apple will bring back FCP 7 pretty soon anyway, so lamenting the fact that they stopped selling it was rather pointless since it was so obvious that this position was untenable. It went without saying that Apple would resume the sales of FCP 7.

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Matte screens to be returning to all macs as the default option. You can switch to a glossy screen for free just like you could not so long ago.

Apple sells the 15" high-res MBP with both matte and glossy screens, they know what proportion of customers prefer glossy and what proportion prefers matte.
What if a clear majority prefers glossy? Just because a vocal group prefers matte does not mean that the majority prefers matte.

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Fixed it how? We already had FCP7, we don't need to buy it again. This announcement changes nothing about how we were working before FCPX came out or how FCPX operates today.

Well, there are companies that are growing but cannot yet switch to FCPX, if they want to keep expanding they had to go to the 'used' market. Complicates things unnecessarily.

 

[notjustjay]

I hate to rain on your parade, but the new paradigm to video editing that was introduced with iMovie 08 is pure genius in my book. I just LOVE this new approach. The guys at Apple took something that was unnecessarily complex and made it simple and intuitive and FUN to use while at the same time providing FAST results. Awesome! That is exactly why people buy Apple products.

Can you elaborate on what you think this "new paradigm" is and why it's better? I'm not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious. I've been doing video editing on a hobbyist basis for years, and I hate the new iMovie and the way it stores video clips and projects.

For one, I could copy an old-iMovie project file -- video clips and all -- from one computer to another. So I could, for example, capture and edit on one computer, then move the project to another computer for live playback on a projector, all with no rendering necessary. In fact this is exactly what I've been doing for years.

Another, I don't like that I can't keep track of my video clip files. Apple likes the "media database" approach where all your "stuff" is abstracted away in collections and databases, and they hide the underlying media files (jpgs, movs, mp3s, aacs). Which is fine when you're dealing with discrete media items like a picture or a song. I don't like this approach for video clips. Why? Let's say you took a video clip of an interview session that's 30 minutes long. That file could be hundreds of megs, even multiple-gigabytes, in size. Now let's say you find the clip that you intend to use in your final video project, and that clip is 10 seconds long. You're carting around this massive video file "somewhere" in your media database for the sake of this 10 second clip. Where is it? How can I copy the clip I want to give it to someone else? How can I optimize my disk space when it's running low? When my project is complete, how do I archive the clip I want to keep and trash the rest? Maybe there are answers, but I haven't found them in my (admittedly pretty quick) look at the new iMovie.

There are a number of other small "huh?" things that made the new iMovie different from the old iMovie and also different from virtually every single video editing package I'd used prior, which includes the old iMovie, Premiere, Final Cut Express, Pinnacle Studio, Ulead Media Studio Pro, even Windows Movie Maker.

The only thing I found with the new iMovie that was truly "easier" is taking ONE video clip, cropping the ends a bit, slapping a fade in/out and a title at the beginning, and throwing the whole lot on YouTube, never to be shared again anywhere else. Anything more complicated than that and I found myself constantly asking "So HOW am I supposed to do this?"

But maybe my idea of "how it should be done" is colored by my previous experience with all that other software, and maybe it truly does make more sense to someone who's never done it before.

 

[the8thark]

Good. It's nice to see Apple caving... could this be Tim's first real decision? Good show.

Final Cut X-press is just like QuickTime X-press... all the features that actually make it good were left on the cutting room floor, pun intended.

Bryan

And lots of others love FCPX. I'm in the I like FCPX camp. Cause it's really good. Despite what you and many others say.

 

[Doug183]

Posters here for the most part seem to miss the point. Apple selling FCP7 is not a good or a bad thing, except maybe its an admission that they were all but to eager to make people switch. FCP7 will continue to exist either in a used market or cracked market if need be. Perhaps most posters don't realize the huge archive efforts it takes for even a small production house. That is why certain formats of video tape is a far from dead technology. Its a locked and reliable format and there are enough decks out there that you can always support it. 1" inch video tape from 30 years ago will still play on a 1" machine today. Heck, 16mm film from a hundred years ago can be projected and even transferred to video. Machines to play back these formats exists because of a huge archive that was built up. FCP7 projects are the same way. In 4-5 year, FCPX hopefully will emerge as a good replacement or some other product is introduce to the market to handle old FCP projects.

Glad Apple is selling FCP7 again. One good thing for consumers is that it will make used MacPro's that can run Snow Leopard and copies of Snow Leopard more valuable over time.

 

[RogueWarrior65]

That's great but...

Just yesterday, I gave up on using FCPX for something dead simple and switched to FCP Studio. But all my video playback gets this red flashing screen when I dump it into iDVD. Oh and BTW, DVD Studio Pro 4.0 can't import current iDVD projects.

Apple really needs to get their ***** together on all of this.

 

[SeattleMoose]

Apple Is Too "Boolean" Sometimes

I hope Apple learns a lesson from the FCP fiasco.

ALLOW A PHASE-IN/PHASE-OUT PERIOD FOR NEW SOFTWARE and HW INTERFACES.

Anyway, glad that Apple made the right call on this because for some, FCP X is "not yet ready for prime time".

 

[Sean4000]

I'm glad I'm married only to platform and not a specific NLE. My mac pro has Premiere, FCP7/X, and Avid MC. FCP X is certainly NOT ready for primetime.

Now I wonder if there is the remotest chance that Tim Cook will possibly reconsider a rumored project called "Phenomenon."

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I made the switch to mac back in 1999 specifically because of Final Cut Pro. I was looking for a "turn-key" non-linear video editing system, and this fit the bill nicely. I'm dumbfounded as to why Apple is essentially killing off this product after gaining so much market share in this area.

Based on the negative (to put it mildly) reaction to iMovie '08, you would think that it would be obvious that this new "paradigm" to video editing was DOA. The user community was so irate over the changes to iMovie '08 that Apple released iMovie HD 6 as a free download (which I still use). So what does Apple take away from this user community backlash to iMovie '08? In an epic fail move, Apple decides to repeat the iMovie '08 failure with their professional Final Cut Pro suite.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

You are right about the insanity part but it wasn't the new editing concept that made iMovie '08 a failure but rather that it was pushed at the expense of all the other features iMovie users enjoyed. Not only did it do away with the ability to take 3rd party plugins, but it stripped out basic FX. And this is also the reason FCPX failed in the pro world -- too many "must have" features were considered expendable in order to have something "all new." In the hardware world it's know as form over function.

Apple has upgraded iMovie to the point that it's quite usable for simple projects. I'll open it up to put together a few clips from my camera where FCP would be sheer overkill. I like the new concept, just not the way Apple rushed to implement it. I suspect Apple will get FCPX into pro usable form in a year or two.

 

[SpinThis!]

Saw it with Xserve, will see it with the iPod Classic. And Apple won't care.

Apple cutting the XServe is frankly a shame. I don't think we've fully seen the ripple effect that will have yet. Since the economy is in the toilet, that means organizations aren't buying as much new hardware and are hanging onto older stuff longer. But when the time comes to upgrade, will companies/educational organizations (especially higher education) who buy large quantities of equipment even consider the Mac if they can't properly administer it? Especially if Apple cuts the Mac Pro, what's left? While the XServe wasn't a big seller, behind every XServe there might have been 100 Macs. I suppose Apple wants companies to adopt iPads and handle administration via their cloud. Good luck with that, the "post-pc era" hasn't arrived yet and probably won't for some time, especially in creative disciplines where you actually need the horsepower. Students will be learning on Windows instead.

 

[iBug2]

That's not the only thing. Glossy screens are worthless for professional usage, the focus on iDevices, Mac Pro refresh is talking forever, "Post-PC" philosophy applies only to consumers, etc... etc... If you still believe Apple is catering to professionals on the same level they've always been, you are the one that needs to get back to reality.

Mac Pro refresh is up to Intel only. So what you are complaining about is that Intel taking too much time to update their Xeons. Which can be taken as "Intel is dropping out of workstation market", the same way Mac Pro lag can be taken as Apple dropping out of Pro Tower market. And both of them would be equally wrong or equally correct.

Percentage wise, Apple is spending more money on consumer devices than on Pro stuff, but I don't think Apple is spending less money compared to 5 years ago on R&D of pro stuff. I may be wrong though.

About Glossy screens, I agree that it's bad that Apple is not giving a choice for iMac buyers because iMacs are used a lot in professional market, but I couldn't care less about their 27" Cinema not having a non-glossy version. Apple is not a display company and one can always go for 3rd party displays for cheaper price and/or better quality. No pro should be complaining that Apple does not have enough display options.

 

[2cool4games]

OMG this is great!

I can't to buy this version of Final Cut Pro because this is really well know for it's originality and nothing can beat it right now.

 

[iBug2]

Yes it is. Even if there are no new cpus available you can update the graphics cards, Add more ram standard, and change other minor things. These are things that dell does with its pro machines on a regular basis that if apple cared about the pro market should also do. Heck even throwing in a thunderbolt card wouldn't have been difficult not that thunderbolt is going anywhere anytime soon. No external devices are even coming close to using that much bandwidth and the cost cutting move of making it electrical instead of optical fiber like the original concept light peak (faster btw) is annoying since it through the costs to the consumer having to buy a ridiculously expensive active cable instead of a simple fiber cable. Sony uses light peak on their new z series to power an external GPU dock station something the technology actually is useful for.

Yes but Apple never renewed their Pro towers just for changing GPU, adding more RAM as standard or adding a peripheral bus. Whatever they are doing today, they did the same 15 years ago or 10 years ago. So this argument does not support "Apple cares less about Pro market nowadays". They always updated their Pro machines when new gen CPU's arrived. G3 tower was not updated until G4 arrived. G4 was updated several times but only when there was a significant CPU clockspeed boost, which does not happen nowadays as much as it did back then but in any case every G4 renewal had new and faster CPU's.

 

[The Captain]

I hate to rain on your parade, but the new paradigm to video editing that was introduced with iMovie 08 is pure genius in my book. I just LOVE this new approach. The guys at Apple took something that was unnecessarily complex and made it simple and intuitive and FUN to use while at the same time providing FAST results. Awesome! That is exactly why people buy Apple products.

I haven't seen Final Cut X myself, and I don't make my living editing videos. But from everything I've read, it were certain missing features that caused the user base to cry out loud, but NOT the paradigm change.

Actually there is a LOT of concern over the new paradigm! It's just happening on more professionally geared sites and away from the eyes of the casual user or mac fanboy.

Complexity=freedom. It's really as simple as that. As much as people have bought into the Apple way of simpler is better, the fact is complexity gives you more control over what you are doing. It allows you to have more parameters to achieve your desired outcome in a more nuanced way. Processes become complex for a reason, and that is to certain things can be done with more fine tuning than with a simpler method. Yes, that means the software is complex to learn, but it also means you have more freedom with how you work, and more creative control over the results.

Also the new magnetic timeline feels like a fundamentally flawed way to tell a story. It severely limits the options you have to use workflows to spur creativity, and most importantly is de-couples time from what is inherently a time based medium. In FC7 open timeline time is absolute in relation to the sequence, in FCX it's a variable. This is fine for people making a youtube video, but for those in broadcast (or film) this new paradigm my be fundamentally flawed.

 

[MrNomNoms]

It has almost been three months and still no update. Sorry Apple but where are those promised updates?

 

[xStep]

Maybe there are answers, but I haven't found them in my (admittedly pretty quick) look at the new iMovie.

You went on a big negative iMovie 08 rant, and that is your time investment. Quick! How can anybody take your comments seriously if you haven't given the new iMovie some reasonable learning time?

Unfortunately your not alone, many who have complained about FCPX have also not invested proper time in it, or worse, are just repeating what they have read on someone else's uninformed rant. I'm disappointed in people who say something can't be done, and a simple internet search with their own key words brings up several direct answers or solutions.

Please people. If your going to go a rant, base it on more than an admittedly pretty quick look.

 

[NoFlash]

Maybe the professional production HOUSE should look seriously at how they edit?

Ever worked in one ?

 

[danpass]

I'm not sure what good it does to put it back up for sale.

Don't those who have it ........... already have it?

This isn't any type of update right?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Our time? How old are you - 10? I've been around longer than Apple. And Apple, along with EVERY SINGLE COMPANY in the world makes missteps, mistakes and so forth.

You can choose to look as this as caving. You can choose to look at this as a smart business decision. You can basically choose to INTERPRET this maneuver any way you want.

But in the best interest of the CUSTOMER - this was a right decision. They haven't pulled FCPX. The CUSTOMER can choose between either program for now which is how it should be.

LTD - You often (always?) have trouble admitting that having a CHOICE is better for the consumer. For you - it's the Apple way or the highway. Things aren't that black and white. They rarely are.

You can't force a square peg into a round hole. "adoption of FCPX would have occurred." That's nice to fantasize about... but that's not exactly honest. There are many who converted (back) to Adobe after FCPX. And there are also many who bought FCPX and reverted back to using FCP 7.

Dare I reference pop culture - "Resistance if Futile" is not a way to conduct business nor should anyone be promoting that...

To many here, Apple is more important than the customer, hence the hard to grasp logic.

 

[NoFlash]

I'm not sure what good it does to put it back up for sale.

Don't those who have it ........... already have it?

This isn't any type of update right?

Those who have it and need to expand edit seats as projects come in, broadcasters post houses etc. If apple did not do this all would switch to other apps, as is already happening.