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Apple Quietly Updates Entry-Level White MacBook

mosx said:
I don't have time to reply to everything, so I'll just reply to this one

Too much of the "proof" provided here is in the form of linking to articles that are nearly half as old as you are.
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Its funny you normally have lots of time for multi-quote replies - and now with your sarcastic age insult you have resorted to old tactics that you criticise others for. Nice

Don't worry about multi-quote replies though - some proof of your claims that USB is faster than Firewire will be enough for me and I suspect others on this thread.

PS. Thank you MagnusVonMagnum for being a true voice of reason.
 
Chappers said:
Its funny you normally have lots of time for multi-quote replies - and now with your sarcastic age insult you have resorted to old tactics that you criticise others for. Nice

Don't worry about multi-quote replies though - some proof of your claims that USB is faster than Firewire will be enough for me and I suspect others on this thread.

PS. Thank you MagnusVonMagnum for being a true voice of reason.
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:rolleyes: Age insult? No. Pointing out of facts? Yes. If you read it as anything other than a pointing out of facts then that was of your own doing and comprehension and not how it was meant or written as.

As for anything else, any one who owns an Intel Mac can install Windows and see the speed differences for themselves.
 
mosx said:
Too much of the "proof" provided here is in the form of linking to articles that are nearly half as old as you are. Information that old is, in the technology world, ancient history.
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And your "proof" is as old as you are, because it is only you making these claims, no benchmarks, articles or anything. And yes I have tested USB 2.0 vs FireWire on my MBP in OS X and Windows, and while USB 2.0 may be slightly faster under windows than OS X, both were typically 50-60% of the speed of FW400 under either.
 
mosx said:
:rolleyes: Age insult? No. Pointing out of facts? Yes. If you read it as anything other than a pointing out of facts then that was of your own doing and comprehension and not how it was meant or written as.

As for anything else, any one who owns an Intel Mac can install Windows and see the speed differences for themselves.
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So when you said
mosx said:
Too much of the "proof" provided here is in the form of linking to articles that are nearly half as old as you are.
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- With the links provided being 5 or 6 years old - what exactly did you mean?

You keep coming back and checking for replies but not to support your claims with any real evidence or do what you so often demand of others - admit you are wrong.
 
mosx said:
No, there isn't glare. As I said, I've used my glossy displays in every type of environment and I have yet to experience any type of "glare".
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Go outdoors.

Sorry, anyone who claims there is no glare on the glossybooks is full of it. I would rather haul the iMac outdoors then try and use a macbook there.

Outdoors, like where the sun is. Got it?
 
I love my white MacBook; we have two here at our home. It does just what we need them to do and provides the performance that we need.

While I think others can do without the Firewire port, I cannot. And I'm not going to drop money on a new DV camera when my older one works great, and transferring footage goes lickety-split :).

People buy what they prefer. Some like the latest and greatest, some have strict requirements, some prefer form over function. Its just a matter of preference. I know in earlier reports that Apple has said that the white MacBook is the best-selling Mac of all time. I think that this recent refresh is a matter of marketing: the know they can sell to a wider customer base by keeping the white MacBook in their notebook lineup for the time being (whether that means hitting customers with a $1000 notebook, an easy Windows replacement, or a Firewire port).

However, I do not doubt that one day they will drop the white MacBook. Its the circle of life. However, I'll only be moving away from Firewire when I no longer have a need for it.
 
with the updated graphics card does this mean that you can finally run Final Cut Studio on the MacBook?

if so I could not be happier.
 
Shivetya said:
Go outdoors.

Sorry, anyone who claims there is no glare on the glossybooks is full of it. I would rather haul the iMac outdoors then try and use a macbook there.

Outdoors, like where the sun is. Got it?
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Orrrrr , they are someone who doesn't work with a laptop outside with the sun shining directly on it ,

Which may shock you but is most people who work with laptops

In an office without a bright light shining behind you (which is stupid to begin with) the "glare" problem is just not there
 
kahine said:
Orrrrr , they are someone who doesn't work with a laptop outside with the sun shining directly on it ,

Which may shock you but is most people who work with laptops

In an office without a bright light shining behind you (which is stupid to begin with) the "glare" problem is just not there
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So all those people I see on trains, coaches etc using their laptops and most definitely suffering - are not really? You'd be surprised the numbers of students with laptops who use them - well - everywhere - which might shock you too. ;)
 
There's glare.

On the glare issue; it is sometimes possible to situate yourself so there's not much glare or reflection on a glassy screen.

The point of a notebook is to be able to use it anywhere. You can't with a glassy screen because of the reflections and glare from light sources that may be behind you, or even from your own light-colored shirt. It's very annoying. To say otherwise is hogwash.

The white MacBook display is not all that much better on glare than the unibody, except that it doesn't have the mirror-like black bezel, and it's not quite as reflective overall.

It's funny though how many of these threads come down to the same arguments. Some people like things and other people hate them. :)
 
Undo Redo said:
On the glare issue; it is sometimes possible to situate yourself so there's not much glare or reflection on a glassy screen.

The point of a notebook is to be able to use it anywhere. You can't with a glassy screen because of the reflections and glare from light sources that may be behind you, or even from your own light-colored shirt. It's very annoying. To say otherwise is hogwash.

The white MacBook display is not all that much better on glare than the unibody, except that it doesn't have the mirror-like black bezel, and it's not quite as reflective overall.

It's funny though how many of these threads come down to the same arguments. Some people like things and other people hate them. :)
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While the black bezel does reflect more than the old silver / white plastic / black plastic bezels did, and can be distracting....the screen itself doesnt reflect that much due to the LED backlighting. I think the LED backlight totally negates the difference in glare between the two screens, since they're both still glossy to begin with. I use my macbook in my office with a window behind me, and I can see the reflections of the window in the black bezel, but it doesnt flow over into the actual screen because of how damn bright this thing is.
 
butterfly0fdoom said:
The iMac and the Mac Pro wouldn't lose FireWire; the MacBook Pro still has it. As for the mini, I doubt the mini would lose FireWire unless Apple decides to make the mini the size of the Apple TV; there would be no space issues, therefore there would be absolutely no logical reason for FireWire's removal.
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That doesn't sound like Apple has "conceded" on Firewire to me.

I doubt that any of those models will drop FW. And I believe there's a good chance that Apple will restore FW on the next revision of the low-end Macbook, given the size of the outcry that probably surprised them.
 
iEdd said:
The first iPods were FireWire only, then the dock connector came in with USB support. FireWire was removed to save on costs and size/weight as USB was more common, this helped dominate the market as availability increased.
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Again, dropping FireWire did not lead to a boost in iPod sales. The iPod mini and the 3G/4G iPods were already successful, and these models supported FireWire. If you didn't use FireWire, the removal of FireWire bears no impact on you in any way whatsoever. There is no correlation.

Eric S. said:
That doesn't sound like Apple has "conceded" on Firewire to me.

I doubt that any of those models will drop FW. And I believe there's a good chance that Apple will restore FW on the next revision of the low-end Macbook, given the size of the outcry that probably surprised them.
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Apple has clearly "conceded" on the consumer product front. And I had said that I doubt any of the desktops would drop FireWire either because of the target market for those computers or because there really isn't any excuse for dropping FireWire. Also, the size of the outcry may be large on these forums, but in the real world, the outcry is but a voice in the distance. Like I said, most people didn't notice and most people didn't care.
 
butterfly0fdoom said:
Apple has clearly "conceded" on the consumer product front. And I had said that I doubt any of the desktops would drop FireWire either because of the target market for those computers or because there really isn't any excuse for dropping FireWire.
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I don't buy into the "consumer" and "pro" labels. These are marketing categories that attempt to channel people into buying specific products in a pattern that will maximize Apple's products. A good example is this whole Firewire business - Apple now recategorizes a set of buyers into a class that needs a higher-margin product. (And we have now come full circle in this discussion - that's the only "excuse" for dropping FireWire.) In real life, though, "consumers" sometimes do "pro" type things, and vice versa.

Also, the size of the outcry may be large on these forums, but in the real world, the outcry is but a voice in the distance. Like I said, most people didn't notice and most people didn't care.
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Several thousand people sent in complaints to Apple. That may be a voice in the distance, I don't know. Obviously Apple will listen most closely to sales data. But I think it did still take Apple by surprise, as evidenced by the fact that Steve Jobs was forced, uncharacteristically, to speak out on the issue, and his lame attempts to justify the decision.
 
mosx said:
......
No, there isn't glare. As I said, I've used my glossy displays in every type of environment and I have yet to experience any type of "glare".
....
Why do I need Target Disk Mode again? So I can connect two Macs together? No thanks. No reason I can't boot off of a USB drive or optical disc.
...
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No screen glare? That has got to be the stupidest statement so far. It may not bother you, but yes there is glare.

Target Disk Mode saved my daughters college work over a Christmas holiday. She was home from school and did not have her install disks to boot up from. Ours didn't work since they were for an iMac G5.

TDM to the rescue.

I connected my computer to hers, started hers in TDM and copied all her files to my computer. After Apple fixed it under Applecare, by doing a complete reinstall which would have lost her files, I just loaded her files back onto her laptop. So yes TDM is valuable and very easy to use as I'm am techno illiterate.

butterfly0fdoom said:
That's only the case for the smaller part of the population that uses/needs FireWire. For the most part, it's a non-issue. Even gadget blogs acknowledged this fact (being that FireWire is irrelevant to the masses), despite gadget blogs being far from the most concrete source of truth. The lack of FireWire on a machine geared to the typical consumer can actually be considered a design consideration. There's nothing funnier than people trying to stick their USB drives into the FireWire port (I've done that on the blind accidentally a couple of times with my mostly unused FireWire port, actually).
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Just because the vast majority of people don't use firewire doesn't exclude having it on an Apple computer.

Apple has only 3 lines of laptops to attract the most number of sales they can. They don't offer many configurations of each line either.

So the exclusion of firewire for insignificant cost savings on a computer that starts @ $1299 is not a wise choice and for no apparent reason removes consumers from that target market. Why limit your target market for what, $10, especially on a very expensive laptop.

mosx said:
...
As for screen glare, again, it does not exist.
...
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I can't believe you actually said this again.
 
iEdd said:
And your "proof" is as old as you are, because it is only you making these claims, no benchmarks, articles or anything. And yes I have tested USB 2.0 vs FireWire on my MBP in OS X and Windows, and while USB 2.0 may be slightly faster under windows than OS X, both were typically 50-60% of the speed of FW400 under either.
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I did some extensive testing with my WD Passport Studio 500GB both on my MBP under Leopard using FW400, FW800 and USB 2.0 and on my PowerMac using FW400 and USB 2.0 under BOTH Tiger and Leopard and posted my results here (and got zero replies): https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/628177/

Overall, testing showed USB 2.0 under Tiger is TERRIBLE. However, the test also showed that USB 2.0 under Leopard is pretty much fixed only slightly slower than FW400 (but does incur bandwidth issues if you have a lot of USB 2.0 devices which is far more likely than having large numbers of FW400 devices and also grabs more CPU cycle than FW400, especially on older computers like my PowerMac). FW800 wipes out either FW400 or USB 2.0 and was faster by far than my MBP's internal 5600RPM Sata.

I have no issue with using a USB 2.0 drive with my MBP, but FW800 is faster so it's moot. My older PowerMac also runs USB 2.0 fine under Leopard, but I still often use Tiger because it's more stable overall for that machine and definitely faster everywhere else and so a FW400 interface makes the most sense there. A drive like the WD Passport Studio 500 gives me all three in one and runs off the interface's power (no power cord needed), so it's the right choice for me and my setup and especially my MBP.

Thus, when you have FW800 on your Mac and you have the choice of getting a USB 2.0 drive and saving a few dollars or the FW800/400/USB2.0 version and getting VASTLY faster performance, well, the choice was easy for me. I took the FW800 model. It also works full speed in Tiger on my PowerMac using FW400 and can connect to my PC which has no Firewire using USB 2.0. But this idea that somehow Firewire is "dead" when most of the PC laptops out there have it, PCI-E cards are available for $20 (FW400) or $45 (FW800) that will add it to your existing tower PC and allow more and faster compatibility with drives that are STILL readily available from even mass market places like Best Buy is just absurd. And all drives I've seen that have Firewire also have USB 2.0 so there is no danger of losing compatibility in the future.

Thus, it's obvious that FW400 is superior to USB 2.0 in terms of performance, however slight and that FW800 wipes the floor with USB 2.0. USB 3.0 sounds great on paper thus far, but until I have a working product available to me, Firewire 800 still rules the PC world (eSata is great for HDs only) REGARDLESS of what trolls on here think. Your Mac probably comes with it so you might as well use it. Your PC might not come with it so maybe you don't care if speed is not an issue or you have eSata and no need for any expansion other than hard drives. But this is a Mac forum so most users on here DO have it and so it's still plenty relevant to them.

Whether a Mac (or even a Windows) user buys a camcorder with firewire or not is of no business or concern to someone like MosX. Let him use his USB 2.0 peripherals if that's what makes him happy, but coming here just to get into arguments with how Windows and PC hardware is superior to Macs or OS X with no other goals or reasons amounts to trolling because these are not Windows forums and they certainly are not the Mac reeducation forums by arrogant Windows users. If you want to run such a thing, go make your own forums and see how many Mac users actually join to listen to you preach at them how stupid they are for still using a Mac.
 
This thread turned into a food fight with school children. Plastic MacBook FW supporters vs. AlumBook supporters........It boils down to this....If you dont need firewire and have a few hundred bucks laying around...get the alumbook, if you dont, get the whitebook. Aside from price and firewire, the alumbook is superior on every other front. Get what you need and stop justifying your purchase because you spent more than you should have for an AlumBook, or spent less and got an outdated model with firewire.

Not everyone here needs firewire, but in the same breath, some people still do. No need to bicker over such an open ended situation that varies case by case
 
I went to Best Buy today to buy one (I have $200 in gift certificates, otherwise I'd never buy it at Best Buy) and they didn't have any white Macbooks in stock. The rep said that the old version was discontinued and the new one would arrive in about a week from today.

I'm wondering if the delay is for iLife 09?
 
CoreyMac said:
This thread turned into a food fight with school children. Plastic MacBook FW supporters vs. AlumBook supporters........It boils down to this....If you dont need firewire and have a few hundred bucks laying around...get the alumbook, if you dont, get the whitebook. Aside from price and firewire, the alumbook is superior on every other front. Get what you need and stop justifying your purchase because you spent more than you should have for an AlumBook, or spent less and got an outdated model with firewire.

Not everyone here needs firewire, but in the same breath, some people still do. No need to bicker over such an open ended situation that varies case by case
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Good post.

This thread started out with people talking about what a nice upgrade the white MacBook received. Then some started talking about it comparatively as if it was practically useless. Fact is, it's a great newly upgraded Mac notebook. Some computers are obviously better, but there's no need to trash-talk the low-end.
 
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