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Apple RAM prices are even more of a joke now.
- Thread starter gpzjock
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The reason for Apples pricing strategy is simple. They don't want you to buy RAM from them...It's a hassle to stock, is easily pilfered and not an item they want to push when so many other specialist suppliers do the job.
That's why they post this on their support site:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1651
They have a guide for every Mac they make.....Wouldn't do that if they were really in the memory business would they?
I disagree, in part. I am certain that a significant number of people who purchase RAM from Apple directly either don't know that they can purchase the same for a lot less elsewhere, or are not comfortable cracking open the cases of their new Macs on day one. However, as a for-profit company, Apple can charge whatever prices that market forces allow them to get away with.
Interesting can of worms so far, thanks for the opinions folks.
I'm not mad at Apple exclusively for the ridiculous mark up they make on memory upgrades, other PC manufacturers are indeed guilty of such rip offs but not to the hugely inflated degree of 9 times (yeah, count it) the price for similar 3rd party modules.
Let me explain a bit about the question "can someone sue":
I took my mum (retired school teacher in her late 60's) to an Apple store in a large retail park somewhere in the South of England (no names saves aggro) last year.
She wanted a laptop that was easy to use, being a non computer user for the majority of her life. She picked out a MacBook Pro she liked (13" i5 2011 model) and proceeded to the till while I mooched around admiring the latest kit.
At the till the sales assistant offered her various additional items: carry case, mouse, AppleCare and a RAM upgrade. Fortunately I was close enough to here him quote the new price of her MacBook as well over £1100 when the original one was £999. She was completely unaware that the hike for the extra 4GB RAM was extortionate. I was pretty surprised not only by the huge price hike but the salesman's apparent disregard for such an increase as if it was perfectly reasonable. I disagree, this is taking advantage of an elderly customer's lack of knowledge, in my opinion.
I stopped the transaction there and then. I took her to the John Lewis store where they happily sold her the same MacBook Pro with a 2 year warranty and a free 500GB Buffalo external hard drive for Time Machine use. Total price £999 as expected. She loves her MBP and is happily emailing, surfing and printing her photos with ease.
If I had thought for one moment the Apple staff would behave like that I would have never set foot in the store, with an elderly person they treated like a gullible punter, in the first place.
If I had not been there and the transaction had gone ahead what recourse would she have had once she had found out what a rip the RAM upgrade actually was?
As so many respondents point out, suing the shyster who convinced her to add the upgrade is not an option.
I reckoned that in the first place, which is why I asked the question, to see if anyone might have an alternative answer.
Please understand I'm not attacking Apple over any other PC manufacturer, I have seen the crap they make and sell, which is why I buy better built/designed Apple machines with a proprietary OS in preference. I just object to the bare faced cheek of exploitative pricing in the face of the uneducated customer. All tech companies seem fairly guilty of this in some way I guess.
Looking at the prices of 3rd party RAM now I may as well purchase an 8 GB set and wait for the warranty to expire before fitting it, just to make sure it isn't invalidated.
I'm not mad at Apple exclusively for the ridiculous mark up they make on memory upgrades, other PC manufacturers are indeed guilty of such rip offs but not to the hugely inflated degree of 9 times (yeah, count it) the price for similar 3rd party modules.
Let me explain a bit about the question "can someone sue":
I took my mum (retired school teacher in her late 60's) to an Apple store in a large retail park somewhere in the South of England (no names saves aggro) last year.
She wanted a laptop that was easy to use, being a non computer user for the majority of her life. She picked out a MacBook Pro she liked (13" i5 2011 model) and proceeded to the till while I mooched around admiring the latest kit.
At the till the sales assistant offered her various additional items: carry case, mouse, AppleCare and a RAM upgrade. Fortunately I was close enough to here him quote the new price of her MacBook as well over £1100 when the original one was £999. She was completely unaware that the hike for the extra 4GB RAM was extortionate. I was pretty surprised not only by the huge price hike but the salesman's apparent disregard for such an increase as if it was perfectly reasonable. I disagree, this is taking advantage of an elderly customer's lack of knowledge, in my opinion.
I stopped the transaction there and then. I took her to the John Lewis store where they happily sold her the same MacBook Pro with a 2 year warranty and a free 500GB Buffalo external hard drive for Time Machine use. Total price £999 as expected. She loves her MBP and is happily emailing, surfing and printing her photos with ease.
If I had thought for one moment the Apple staff would behave like that I would have never set foot in the store, with an elderly person they treated like a gullible punter, in the first place.
If I had not been there and the transaction had gone ahead what recourse would she have had once she had found out what a rip the RAM upgrade actually was?
As so many respondents point out, suing the shyster who convinced her to add the upgrade is not an option.
I reckoned that in the first place, which is why I asked the question, to see if anyone might have an alternative answer.
Please understand I'm not attacking Apple over any other PC manufacturer, I have seen the crap they make and sell, which is why I buy better built/designed Apple machines with a proprietary OS in preference. I just object to the bare faced cheek of exploitative pricing in the face of the uneducated customer. All tech companies seem fairly guilty of this in some way I guess.
Looking at the prices of 3rd party RAM now I may as well purchase an 8 GB set and wait for the warranty to expire before fitting it, just to make sure it isn't invalidated.
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How many people use or even need 8GB? Not so many outside of enthusiast forums. Replacing and upgrading RAM is easy enough, if Apple was going to spend extra money on the base configuration, I'd rather it go towards a computer that everyone will notice the benefits of or at least something that might be hard or impossible to swap out in the future.
It won't be. I've taken in self-upgraded MacBook Pro's in for service and not had a problem. The odd question about the performance benefits, but never a problem.
I'm not mad at Apple exclusively for the ridiculous mark up they make on memory upgrades, other PC manufacturers are indeed guilty of such rip offs but not to the hugely inflated degree of 9 times (yeah, count it) the price for similar 3rd party modules.
Let me explain a bit about the question "can someone sue":
I took my mum (retired school teacher in her late 60's) to an Apple store in a large retail park somewhere in the South of England (no names saves aggro) last year.
She wanted a laptop that was easy to use, being a non computer user for the majority of her life. She picked out a MacBook Pro she liked (13" i5 2011 model) and proceeded to the till while I mooched around admiring the latest kit.
At the till the sales assistant offered her various additional items: carry case, mouse, AppleCare and a RAM upgrade. Fortunately I was close enough to here him quote the new price of her MacBook as well over £1100 when the original one was £999. She was completely unaware that the hike for the extra 4GB RAM was extortionate. I was pretty surprised not only by the huge price hike but the salesman's apparent disregard for such an increase as if it was perfectly reasonable. I disagree, this is taking advantage of an elderly customer's lack of knowledge, in my opinion.
I stopped the transaction there and then. I took her to the John Lewis store where they happily sold her the same MacBook Pro with a 2 year warranty and a free 500GB Buffalo external hard drive for Time Machine use. Total price £999 as expected. She loves her MBP and is happily emailing, surfing and printing her photos with ease.
If I had thought for one moment the Apple staff would behave like that I would have never set foot in the store, with an elderly person they treated like a gullible punter, in the first place.
If I had not been there and the transaction had gone ahead what recourse would she have had once she had found out what a rip the RAM upgrade actually was?
As so many respondents point out, suing the shyster who convinced her to add the upgrade is not an option.
I reckoned that in the first place, which is why I asked the question, to see if anyone might have an alternative answer.
Please understand I'm not attacking Apple over any other PC manufacturer, I have seen the crap they make and sell, which is why I buy better built/designed Apple machines with a proprietary OS in preference. I just object to the bare faced cheek of exploitative pricing in the face of the uneducated customer. All tech companies seem fairly guilty of this in some way I guess.
Looking at the prices of 3rd party RAM now I may as well purchase an 8 GB set and wait for the warranty to expire before fitting it, just to make sure it isn't invalidated.
So what's the real problem here....that Apple tried to upsell your mom? Consider if you weren't around; could it possibly be worth it to people who aren't tech savvy or know what they're doing to pay $150 more for the convenience of having someone else install it while being sure there will be no problems of have to replace the RAM if they need service? I'm not saying that Apple RAM is overpriced, but you're just describing what happens in every business from McDonalds to BMW.
I don't understand the point of this thread. You claim you had a bad experience... OK. Who cares? If you are not happy with the Apple Store, then buy elsewhere. If you are not happy with Apple products... then buy something else. What exactly are you gaining by complaining and wanting to sue Apple? Bottom line is that this is all just talk... if you want to sue then do it... I certainly do not care.
Little off topic but buddy just got a new Dell with i7 and 16GB ram, he run's 5 monitors doing anything from heavy downloads and media, to intense graphic design etc at the same time... that things is a beast, fast as hell and no slow down no matter what you throw at it. But yeh most people don't need that... sure is nice to have/use though haha
Let me explain in little words you might be able to understand.
Apple charges about 8 times the fair market rate for memory modules.
There is absolutely nothing special about them.
With current mbp's, installation is just a few screws and slapping in a module.
A self upgrade does not in any way void the Apple warranty - the modules are simply covered by the actual manufacturer rather than Apple.
Most of what I've seen shipping lately in MBP's is Kingston memory.
Kingston has a lifetime warranty - unlike any Apple branded components.
So, we have a situation where Apple profits handsomely from it's most uninformed customers.
The Store personnel here don't push ram upgrades for exactly this reason - it makes them look either stupid (as if they are aware of the actual value) or rapacious (they know, but are relying on the customer being ignorant.)
The OP (unlike me) never said he was unhappy with Apple pricing - he objects to their business practices.
He wants other consumers to be aware so they don't inadvertently get overcharged.
That's the point of his post, and your feelings frankly don't matter.
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Well, they could waltz into pretty much any non Apple computer shop.
Most will install the ram they sell (at normal market prices) at no charge.
So, no - it's not "worth it" to anyone except the most abjectly ignorant user, or a really dedicated fanboi who wants to send as much cash to Cupertino as possible.
Apple is just cashing in on their most ignorant and fanatical customers.
That's sleazy at best.
This is an incredibly naive point of view, as is the OP's. It is not the responsibility or obligation of any business to offer the lowest prices on their products, or to inform buyers about where they can buy the same products for less. That's akin to saying a car dealership is unethical if they don't tell you that you can go down the street to a competitor to get a better price. It is always the buyer's responsibility to shop around for better pricing, if they're so inclined. To blame the vendor for charging high prices or not telling customers how to buy from their competitors for less indicates a lack of understanding of how the free enterprise system works, or a lack of experience in the business world.
If I went to buy a set of tires, and nodded along at the installation and balancing charges, then realized the dealer was trying to charge me $30 each for valve stems, I'd be rightly angry.
Is it legal? Sure.
Is it cynical and does it assume Apple customers are ignorant? Absolutely!
I guess from what you are telling me, Apple may be right.
No one has said it's not. But I know someone (my wife for example) would assume that it needed to be done by someone qualified and would never attempt it herself.
While it's not the usual user in a technical forum such as this, to a lot of folks their computer is a beyond comprehension light up typewriter that they have to carry back to the store if they want something done.
I take it none of you have ever dealt with an extensive user base to know just how clueless they can be.
your right it is always the customers resposiblilty
Car Salesman are sterotyped as some of the scumbags of the universe but sure that doesnt change the fact that your are still ultimately the last person responsible for making your own decissions.
that said whats the point of things liek the Better Business Bureau? I dont think its so cut and dry to say business can do whatevery they want
It does if Apple claims the third party part (in this discussion: memory) is the cause of the failure.
No, you wouldn't have a right to be angry. You do, however, have the right to take your business elsewhere, if you don't like their prices. They can charge whatever they want.
It's also ethical. Again, a business can charge any price they want for any product. If the buyer agrees to the price, only the buyer is to blame.
No, it assumes that those who pay the price consider it an acceptable price, or they would have bought elsewhere.
Apple is right to charge whatever they want. The consumer is right to choose what price they're willing to pay and to choose what vendor they want to do business with. The consumer is not obligated to buy from Apple, and Apple is not obligated to change their pricing to suit the consumer. If consumers weren't willing to pay Apple's prices, Apple would adjust them. If a consumer buys RAM from Apple without checking prices elsewhere, only the consumer is to blame.
that might be true but thats why you keep the original RAM so you can bring it in with their RAM
No, only if Apple *proves* that the 3rd party ram caused damage to the rest of the system - claiming isn't enough, and in the US, the burden of proof is on the manufacturer.
(Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975)
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer''s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name.
The odds of the same ram that Apple ships spontaneously developing a hardware fault such that it causes to other hardware is so vanishingly small as to not merit serious consideration.
And it's a really stupid justification for paying nine times the market price.
The BBB lost relevance a long time ago.
No one checks BBB references, so they have no teeth.
And yes - used car salesmen are either scumbags or hungry - no exceptions.
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Wrong. There are always exceptions. And who said anything about used car salesmen, in the first place?
One thing you don't realize is that the price of 8 GB of ram is only a small part of the full cost for Apple. You could call the rest a convenience fee. It includes:
- Labor for putting in the upgrade
- testing 8 GB ram kits that will work in the MBP
- negotiating a price for a small volume purchase of 8 GB ram kits
- keeping 8 GB ram kits in stock in most Apple stores + shipping and packaging
- including it in AppleCare "for free"
- adding a 50%-100% margin to the total
I'm not saying that this adds up to $200 (or the equivalent in pounds), but it's probably closer to that number than it is to the market price of 8 GB RAM. Note that RAM is the only upgrade that Apple makes in store... everything else ships from china, where labor and storage costs are insignificant compared to US/UK rates.
Now, your other point is whether or not they should recommend this upgrade in store. Also here I don't see any wrong doing. Should they recommend a 8 GB upgrade, but tell the elderly customer to do it himself?
The net result is that now your mother does not have 8 GB of RAM, and probably no AppleCare.
Nice to see an informed argument about sales laws and ethics at last.
GGJstudios considers a view that: Reputable sellers of products will offer a fair service, or quantity of goods, for a reasonable price compared to the rest of the market, is naive. I disagree, it is the whole crux of the word reputable.
"Would I trust this salesman not to rip off an elderly woman?" Yes/No?
Yes- he is reputable.
No - he is a scumbag (to use the vernacular in this discussion).
Naive? Maybe. Just and sure judgement that I don't trust someone in an Apple store with my Mum's credit card details, out of my earshot? Definitely.
That is a black mark on Apple's karma. That isn't naive, it's survival of wallet. Nuff said.
GGJstudios considers a view that: Reputable sellers of products will offer a fair service, or quantity of goods, for a reasonable price compared to the rest of the market, is naive. I disagree, it is the whole crux of the word reputable.
"Would I trust this salesman not to rip off an elderly woman?" Yes/No?
Yes- he is reputable.
No - he is a scumbag (to use the vernacular in this discussion).
Naive? Maybe. Just and sure judgement that I don't trust someone in an Apple store with my Mum's credit card details, out of my earshot? Definitely.
That is a black mark on Apple's karma. That isn't naive, it's survival of wallet. Nuff said.
And traipsing into an Apple store claiming the MM warranty act is sure NOT to get you your machine back for free if they make that claim. It's then a civil case with you trying to get a technical expert to testify and and a lawyer. Just negated the savings now. People that actually are naive enough to think that pulling the MM warranty act out of their pocket is going to get them their property back without charge rank right there with your clueless and naive.
MM warranty act only says that you can use third party parts, and was originally brought over oil filters and automobiles. Manufacturers can still void warranties if they attribute that the third party part was responsible for the damage. They can freely deny coverage and stand by it and you have to prove them wrong.
So you think Rolls-Royce, Rolex, and sellers of designer fashions should be put out of business, right? Basically, anyone who sells things at a higher price than a similar product can be sold elsewhere? So all high-end restaurants need to go, too? High prices do not equate to disreputable.
For the first couple years of having my MacBook i only knew of Apples price's.
I knew my '08 MBP would hold 8GBs, but tried to maintain 4GB. When i finally seen some RAM on Ebay going for $50 i thought it was a lie to be honest. That's when i checked on MacRumors, Bestbuy and Apple for such news (homework is best),I found out. It is not Apple's obligation to tell.
What about the people that buy 3rd party Anti-Virus software for Apple computers? Who's to find out if they need it or not?
I knew my '08 MBP would hold 8GBs, but tried to maintain 4GB. When i finally seen some RAM on Ebay going for $50 i thought it was a lie to be honest. That's when i checked on MacRumors, Bestbuy and Apple for such news (homework is best),I found out. It is not Apple's obligation to tell.
What about the people that buy 3rd party Anti-Virus software for Apple computers? Who's to find out if they need it or not?
This is the norm with computer oems. The ram isn't sold to them with retail warranty terms anyway. Apple does not receive a lifetime warranty on what it takes in. Looking at some of the other brands, they all ream you on ram. Sometime it's worse in one computer line than another, but it's always cheaper to do it yourself. Apple computers were more finicky on ram prior to Intel cpus. Now they work just fine with most stuff off the shelf.