Apple Ready to 'Welcome Fortnite Back Onto iOS' if Epic Removes Direct Purchase After Losing Restraining Order Ruling

[Black Belt]

Epic is run by a bunch of “occupy” hypocrites that think everything should be free....except their stuff. Hypocrites and ingrates. The work Apple put into creating and building an App Store so you could sell your game makes your effort look like pissing in a pot. They created the whole marketplace concept so you could sell your product without lifting a finger.

 

[Black Belt]

Would you be ok with if someone is taking 30% + Taxes of what your earning?

Do you vote liberal? The Government takes a hell of a lot more than that.

 

[Grohowiak]

Epic is run by a bunch of “occupy” hypocrites that think everything should be free....except their stuff. Hypocrites and ingrates. The work Apple put into creating and building an App Store so you could sell your game makes your effort look like pissing in a pot. They created the whole marketplace concept so you could sell your product without lifting a finger.

You know they are the ones that created a store to challenge steam and set a dev fee of 12% so game developers actually make more money?
On top of that they give away free games even if you don't purchase anything? You can get a free copy of Hitman for example next month. Yours forever.
Of course the developers get paid for it. So far I think it is 73 titles? Some of them pretty big.

Sooooo what you said makes you look uninformed to put it mildly. Just FYI.

 

[Realityck]

Epic is run by a bunch of “occupy” hypocrites that think everything should be free....except their stuff. Hypocrites and ingrates. The work Apple put into creating and building an App Store so you could sell your game makes your effort look like pissing in a pot. They created the whole marketplace concept so you could sell your product without lifting a finger.

Although we seen some interface changes to the App store as it matures along with the iOS, how old it is now? Well it came out in July 10, 2008. So at what point do you stop attributing all the work that Apple put into it?

 

[thedarkhalf]

This video explains it all.

Guy on Verge "Crucially, Epic isn't asking for any money here.."

Uhh.. yes it ****ing is!! It's asking Apple to waive all fees. Where does all of that found money go then? In to Fortnite customers pockets? HA!! I dont think so...

 

[Jbusick7944]

Seems dumb to know the rules, agree to the rules, then break the rules then sue for the rules to be changed.

 

[D4vidrim]

It just seems a little weird that Apple gets a flat 30% no matter how small (or how big) the transaction is...

On the other hand... those are Apple's rules and everyone should obey them. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You are right. It could be a progressive fee, where the more you earn, the less you pay to Apple, instead they decided to have a flat fee.
Which one is better depends on your goals. Apple probably preferred to help small developers over big developers. So a flat fee keeps the fee low for those developers who earn less. As I said in other threads, this way makes lower barriers to entry for new developers who only have to pay 100 $/year to start their business. The more they grow, the more they have to pay to Apple.But if developers find a way to keep their customers paying through subscriptions, the fee decreases to 15%, which is really low. How can developers keep customers? Creating great apps.

Is that a bad incentive for developers? As you wrote: Apple's rules.

 

[BC2009]

Would you be ok with if someone is taking 30% + Taxes of what your earning?

+ taxes???? What are you talking about?

But let’s flip the shoe over to the other foot.... why doesn’t Epic spend their resources developing SDK’s for third parties to create in-game gear and mods for Fortnite. Then create a secure payment system with parental controls for people to buy that stuff and even sell alternate third party virtual currencies for buying that stuff. And then only charge the third parties the credit card processing fee or better yet let them use their own payment processing to sell virtual products inside Fortnite. After all, even though Epic created and popularized Fortnite and promoted the game and got the users and developed the SDK’s, and would be providing the distribution system — they are not really entitled to a piece of the action, right?

meanwhile game console developers like Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft (and previously Sega) we’re charging 60% and up to build games for their consoles (hence the high price of game console games). They also charged devs serious up-front money to participate in the dev program. When the App Store came around with its $100 annual participation fee and only 30% fees for better SDK’s and giant user base, game console developers had to cut their rate to 30% and small Devs could afford to participate. Especially since Apple provides the distribution channel as well and promoted the games.

AND YET, Epic is not going after the console makers. Probably because they stand to make more money trying to pillage on Apple’s platform.

 

[Realityck]

Seems dumb to know the rules, agree to the rules, then break the rules then sue for the rules to be changed.

If one looks at businesses you can see a history of rules that didn't work out correctly and were corrected/modified when times changed. Your taking the perspective that rules are absolute. I don't even think Apple operates on that basis. They can change the rules if they want. I am not implying that the EPIC example is a example of where a company should be compelled. But rules get challenged all the time frequently from parties that agreed to those rules.

 

[smallcoffee]

It's difficult to understand your way of thinking because if I haven't bought Fortnite or have an Amazon or AirBnb account, I am NOT one of their users, no more than everyone with a mailbox at their house is a user of every business in the country just because they are able to receive mail or purchase goods through the mail.

Well, yea, if you don't have an Amazon or AirBnB account how could you be their user? If you don't have an iPhone you wouldn't be an iPhone user.

If you do have an iPhone then you are an iPhone user. Apple provides a platform for Epic to potentially sell software to you.

If you have an Amazon account then you are an Amazon user. Amazon provides a platform for companies to potentially sell products to you.

See?

 

[TiggrToo]

That's hilarious! I can see 30% of $10 maybe working out, but 30% of MILLIONS of $$$ being operating costs, just to host an app and process payments (which costs about 2-3%)? In app purchases don't involve Apple at all, except for Apple forcing Epic to use them as a payment processor. Anyone who makes a product has a choice how to have their payments processed.

Totally realistic.

You want an idea on markup? Industry standard for contract to hire workers is 50%.

In other words, if I hire someone who’ll eventually come on board after 6 months for $60k p/a I’ll be paying the agency $60k over that 6 months.

When one starts dealing with real world business dollars one starts to get how it works.

At home I care about each and every buck. At work I care about each any every $1k.

Business are just that - they’re not charities. In addition to operating costs there is markup - and everyone takes a markup.

Apple don’t have their own cloud, for example. Just like Netflix who uses Amazon’s AWS, Apple use third party cloud services. And they add up REAL fast when one looks at all the costs involved for data, replication, security and storage.

So yeah, 30% might seem excessive to you, to me it seems about on par with what I’d expect.

 

[Sean O'Reilly]

I don’t disagree that 30% seems a bit high, but I don’t get why it’s just Apple being focused on. Sounds like the whole industry does 30%.

In the case of mobile phones, its because Apple is the only one that doesn't allow you to download third party apps through other means. You are trapped into paying the 30% unless you jailbreak your phone, unlike an Android which is far more customizable. (I love apple products tho). As a developer, I would LOVE to see Apple lose this one, but its very unlikely

 

[gsurf123]

Would you be ok with if someone is taking 30% + Taxes of what your earning?

This is the way the world works if you sell things. Someone gets a cut of the action for providing the platform whether digital (App Store) or physical (storefront). If you sell a product in Walmart then they decide what the sales price will be. Maybe Apple should start telling companies what they will pay for their products and then set their own profit margins. I doubt that is what anyone wants.

Another way of looking at this is that when you set your price simply add 30% to it and this guarantees you will get what you want for your product.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Epic would be wise to accept Apple’s open arms.

 

[rwxx]

Google, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all do the same thing, so why is everyone just complaining about Apple?

It’s pretty obvious why. You pick the biggest target, the one that will get your cause the most attention, and go after them first. Once precedent has been established, you go after everyone else.

 

[Grohowiak]

Epic would be wise to accept Apple’s open arms.

Why you think that?
Care to elaborate?

 

[TiggrToo]

In the case of mobile phones, its because Apple is the only one that doesn't allow you to download third party apps through other means. You are trapped into paying the 30% unless you jailbreak your phone, unlike an Android which is far more customizable. (I love apple products tho). As a developer, I would LOVE to see Apple lose this one, but its very unlikely

Hate to stomp all over your parade, but remind me how much Google charge?

Service fees - Play Console Help

Apps and in-app products sold through Google Play’s billing system or an Alternative Billing System (as defined below) in accordance with the Payments policy are subject to a service fee.

support.google.com

For apps and in-app products offered through Google Play, the service fee is equivalent to 30% of the price. You receive 70% of the payment. The remaining 30% goes to the distribution partner and operating fees.

As of January 1, 2018, the service fee for subscription products decreases to 15% for any subscribers you retain after 12 paid months. If a subscriber has been active as of this date, that time will be counted. For example, if a subscriber has been active for 4 months, the service fee will be reduced to 15% after 8 more paid months.

 

[Grohowiak]

Hate to stomp all over your parade, but remind me how much Google charge?

Service fees - Play Console Help

Apps and in-app products sold through Google Play’s billing system or an Alternative Billing System (as defined below) in accordance with the Payments policy are subject to a service fee.

support.google.com

You missed the point.
He meant that on android you can get same app from various surces while on iPhone it's only the appstore.

 

[Baymowe335]

And for that you get police, schools and street lights.

LOLLLL....and what about the stuff I don’t want or need?

BTW, school tax is additional.

 

[TiggrToo]

You missed the point.
He meant that on android you can get same app from various surces while on iPhone it's only the appstore.

Actually, I didn’t miss the point. The point made was that Apple only charge what they do be so they’re the only shop in Appletown.

If that’s the case then why do Google ALSO charge 30%?

 

[dafrosty1]

In which universe did Apple "hand " Epic a billion people? Does Apple pay for all Epic's advertising? Does Apple give Epic free top-of-the-list app placement in the store? Does Apple use Epic games in advertising of Apple products to entice people to play the game?

Apart from being the delivery mechanism, just wondering how Apple handed Epic all these customers?

Epic is basically demanding that they be given the right to "digital solicitation" You can't stand in front of walmart or any other retail store and use their foot-traffic as your marketplace. That is solicitation and it is illegal. You have to sell your product to the retailer and they mark up the price. Typical retail mark-up is like 37.5% (Apple's 30% is 20% less than a retail mark-up) Apple built the store and consumer base; Epic didn't invest in any of that and cannot dictate the terms of using the app store. They've just decided that they are entitled to all of the money because they created a popular game. Sorry, but if Apple hadn't created the iPhone and app store, there wouldn't be a Fortnite experience as we know it. Fortnite would just be another xbox/ps title on retail shelfs and would not have been able to take off like it has with the massive (and free) consumer base Apple has provided to them.

 

[Grohowiak]

Actually, I didn’t miss the point. The point made was that Apple only charge what they do be so they’re the only shop in town.

If that’s the case then why do Google ALSO charge 30%?

Cause they chose to even though they have competition.
Technically both points are valid when I think about it lol

I stand corrected.

 

[rwxx]

In which universe did Apple "hand " Epic a billion people? Does Apple pay for all Epic's advertising? Does Apple give Epic free top-of-the-list app placement in the store? Does Apple use Epic games in advertising of Apple products to entice people to play the game?

Apart from being the delivery mechanism, just wondering how Apple handed Epic all these customers?

Exactly. It’s more like the other way around. People are on iOS because of the robust app selection. If developers walk, so will customers. Fortnite is hugely popular and rakes in cash, but all of the sales and marketing expenses are out of Epic’s pocket. Apple is getting rich off of Epic’s hard work and Epic is essentially subsidizing other less popular (not to mention all of the free) apps in the App Store. Epic should definitely pay something for the hosting, distribution, and payment processing services that Apple (and other App Stores) provides, but 30% is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is the idea that 30% is fair for everyone. It’s not.

 

[jicon]

$100, Epic has this resolved by Saturday, and their app is available on iOS again with an Apple sanctioned app. This just sounds like a big marketing ploy to advertise the new event in the app.

 

[grjj]

Would you be ok with if someone is taking 30% + Taxes of what your earning?

Funny how Epic aren't suing Microsoft(xbox), Sony(playstation), or any of the other app stores where they also pay 30% and have no choice but to work with the one single app store on that platform.
The chose Apple for this charade for some other reason than the 30% itself.