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Apple Ready to 'Welcome Fortnite Back Onto iOS' if Epic Removes Direct Purchase After Losing Restraining Order Ruling

Grohowiak said:
lol one game.
I guess you never heard about unreal engine.

Enough. really.
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Way to tunnel vision. We're talking about one app (Fortnite) as the basis for the discussion (and the lawsuit).

It doesn't matter if it's one app or a thousand.

The issue here is Epic wants to use Apple's environment to make money, without paying Apple for it.
 
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Theyayarealivin said:
Would you be ok with if someone is taking 30% + Taxes of what your earning?
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smallcoffee said:
Sure, if they handed me a billion people to earn money off of and supported me and enabled me to reach that audience.

Don't like it? Build your own phone.
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Bingo. If you have ever owned a real-world business you would know that getting the customer is typically the hardest part; and can be the most expensive operating cost.

That i why Facebook Ads, Google PPC, selling leads etc all exist. And I can tell you in my line of work certain people in the more lucrative return sectors will pay 3 digits PER CLICK to get a customer. Customer acquisition isnt free; despite what Epic wants you to think.
 
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Darth Tulhu said:
Way to tunnel vision. We're talking about one app (Fortnite) as the basis for the discussion (and the lawsuit).

It doesn't matter if it's one app or a thousand.

The issue here is Epic wants to use Apple's environment to make money, without paying Apple for it.
Click to expand...

It matters because unreal engine gives jobs to a lot of developers so that they can develop for iOS.
Apple didn't got after epic on this. They went after everybody that uses their game engine so fortnite on it's own has nothing to do with it.
It was a spark that created a reaction showing a massive power push from apples part threatening livehoods of many people completely unrelated to this case just so they can stick it to epic.
 
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Grohowiak said:
take it easy.
you gonna pop a vein or something.
And yes they do sell hardware. duh.
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They sell an experience. The hardware is part of it. Part of that experience is a locked down ecosystem. This is known by customers and developers. Customers shouldn't buy into the experience and developers shouldn't develop for the experience if they don't like how the ecosystem is locked down.
 
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quagmire said:
Apple is amongst the biggest players. This is probably a case of taking down the big player and the rest will follow if this suit is successful.
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Biggest players? Android fans just love throwing their numbers out there until they are working against them. Apple doesn't have the most mobile hardware and it doesn't have the most App Store members. Apple is not even close to being Fortnite's biggest platform, that honor goes to the Big 3 which Epic is afraid of.
 
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Epic should be required to offer an api so Apple and other developers can have the option to sell in app purchases to the game at the price they want. Why can epic sell in app purchases only to the game and no one else? In app purchases for the game is like their App store yet no one else can sell anything in it except Epic
 
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Grohowiak said:
Or Epic created quality content / game engine so apple can grow in this field.
I can't understand how so many people can't see this is a symbiotic relationship.
Complete lack of understanding how business works and what's going on rofl
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It's not symbiotic to agree to Epic's demand of cutting out Apple from all app revenue sold through Epic's App Store. This is not hearsay, it's exactly was Sweeney asked for.
 
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Grohowiak said:
I don't need them to cross advertise as long as my product is on both stores. Each store can do it within their own market. I don't understand the point.

Fortnite is a game. Why would apple sell anything in there?
Now, can apple make a game and sell it on Epic store? Sure they can and they will be charged 12% (versus apples 30%) for doing so, so again, not following your points.
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The argument was that if you don't like Walmart's terms you can just go put your product at Target. That's great, except only so many of those customers cross markets (not unlike the customers that might have an iPhone and a Kindle). If you didn't like Walmart's terms so you decided to sell at Target you can't then force Walmart to display your Target product, it doesn't work that way.

Fortnite is a game that sells in-app items (which means it is also a store), why shouldn't that be an open market? Why can't I create a cool item that I could sell in Fortnight? Why can't I sell crates?

I can't do it because Epic has decided that isn't an open market, they get to set the terms in their market. The fact that they are a dominate market doesn't mean they don't still get to set the terms.
 
Darth Tulhu said:
Way to tunnel vision. We're talking about one app (Fortnite) as the basis for the discussion (and the lawsuit).

It doesn't matter if it's one app or a thousand.

The issue here is Epic wants to use Apple's environment to make money, without paying Apple for it.
Click to expand...
A bit of a correction. Sweeney requested using Apple's platform to sell other people's games and Apple gets nothing for it. (It's in his first email to Apple)
 
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Grohowiak said:
Again, you don't have to go to walmart to sell your product to a mom for example. A mom can buy from Target too.
BUT with with iOS you have only ONE option if you want to make a app / game for iphone. For iphone there's only one way or the highway. This is the issue.
With google you can buy from several stores. With iOS there's only appstore.
Nobody gives a crap about fortnite on iOS including epic since they used it to prove a point knowingly that will get banned.
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I for one have apple products because of the walled garden, I as sure other people feel the same. I do not trust google or android, so if developers want my money then go thru apple, that is the only way they will get it, and yes all my subscriptions are thru apple. I only have to deal with one place and my info is safe.
 
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McKodiak said:
They sell an experience. The hardware is part of it. Part of that experience is a locked down ecosystem. This is known by customers and developers. Customers shouldn't buy into the experience and developers shouldn't develop for the experience if they don't like how the ecosystem is locked down.
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What experience??
It's a phone that can run apps. A tool.

Watching northern lights for the first time is an experience, browsing safari on a phone at least for me doesn't match that description.
 
Grohowiak said:
It matters because unreal engine gives jobs to a lot of developers so that they can develop for iOS.
Apple didn't got after epic on this. They went after every everybody that uses their game engine so fortnite on it's own has nothing to do with it.
It was a spark that created a reaction showing a massive power push from apples part threatening livehoods of many people completely unrelated to this case just so they can stick it to epic.
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No. Epic violated the rules and Apple took the app off the store and gave Epic a warning to fix it or their account will be shut off. Normal operations. The fact that Epic didn't consider the disabling of the dev account is Epic's fault.
 
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jinnj said:
No. Epic violated the rules and Apple took the app off the store and gave Epic a warning to fix it or their account will be shut off. Normal operations. The fact that Epic didn't consider the disabling of the dev account is Epic's fault.
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If that is the case then why judge sided with epic on this?
AT THIS POINT IN TIME with the facts at hand that's where we are.

How it will end who knows.
I personally don't really care lol. Just two giants going at eachother.
 
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quagmire said:
If I use the infrastructure they built that enables me to reach those customers, why shouldn't I expect to pay a commission to Apple? Do you think Apple doesn't pay Best Buy a cut of the sales for every Apple product sold at Best Buy? Or you think Best Buy should provide the retail space for free?

If you want to argue 30% is too high, that is another thing. But situation here is Epic not wanting to pay Apple a commission in using the App Store.
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Then why is it businesses like Uber, Airbnb, McDondalds, etc. all use that infrastructure but Apple conveniently decides to forego any commissions? Apple gets nothing outside the basic developer fee from the billions of dollars Uber alone generates through their iOS app. Apple is arbitrarily singling out purveyors of certain digital content and forcing them to use IAP where Apple gets 30% off the top. If the infrastructure is so important then all developers should be charged based on some equitable method across the board.
 
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Rogifan said:
Epic’s Tim Sweeney gets a profile in The NY Times.

www.nytimes.com

To Fight Apple and Google’s Grip, Fortnite Creator Mounts a Crusade (Published 2020)

Tim Sweeney, chief executive of Epic Games, the maker of Fortnite, has railed against tech power. “The market is out of control,” he said.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Pretty bias article. Discusses why he turned down Warner but went with Tencent instead. Oh and that little lawsuit with silicon knights. But APPLE GOOGLE BAD!!! Fees!!! BADD!! No mention of the Epic Store fees, Unreal Engine fees, Console market and FEES!!!
 
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Grohowiak said:
If that is the case then why judge sided with epic on this?
AT THIS POINT IN TIME with the facts at hand that's where we are.

How it will end who knows.
I personally don't really care lol. Just two giants going at eachother.
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Judge told Epic if you want back in the store then fix the app. She made this about Fortnite and put a stop on disabling the dev account. Still normal operations for a company in a lawsuit to halt all communications until it is settled.
 
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The move by Epic was a dick move, no doubt. But I also agree that 30% is awfully high. I’m part of a marketplace that takes around that and I’m cheering for epic so that hopefully Apple lowers its fees causing a domino effect in other marketplaces/industries.
 
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