Apple Receives Permit From California DMV to Test Self-Driving Cars [Updated]

[MrNomNoms]

And Mac Pro's are affiliated with Apple receiving Permits to Test self driving cars? You do know Apple has more than one Department that works on various projects within the Company?

And as demonstrated multiple times it appears that Apple has a problem with being able to chew chewing gum and walk at the same time as demonstrated in the past with sacrificing macOS for the sake of getting iOS out on time or their focus on the iPad at the expense of the Mac platform not to mention hanging the Mac Pro out to dry, the neglect of their software portfolio in favour of gimmicks like Clips. I wish that they could deal with multiple things at a time but past experience as shown that they're incapable of doing that. It is getting to the point now that my next product upgrade I'll be looking at upgrading away from the Mac/iOS platform because it appears that Tim Cook is hell bent on killing the Mac platform in favour of pandering the iPad wanker brigade.

LMAO, Apple's Maps is such junk. Notice how the guy's only response is that Apple's Carplay 'looks pretty' ?? LOL, typical Apple consumer. Looks pretty, but it's junk.

Glad I'm on Android, Google Maps has been amazing getting through traffic jams and such.

The further you get away from the Cupertino, California bubble the worse the maps get to the point that if you're living in New Zealand you might as well spin a circle and randomly walk in a direction because it'll be more reliable than relying on Apple maps.

 

[trifid]

Actually seems like the financials and market don't agree apple is broken...not that any corporation can't use done improvements.

Money doesn't necessarily mean innovation, excellence, vision. Example: Microsoft.

 

[Col4bin]

Not one human ever has asked for a self driving car. I find this fascinating every company is focusing on it. It's so bizarre.

These companies are cashing in on "the future of driving", (or at least what they hope is the future of driving). It's become somewhat of a copycat game now, too, as no one wants to be the company that sat still in complacency and missed the proverbial boat. I feel most are simply chasing phantom dollars here, regardless of the fact that I personally have zero interest in self-driving cars. It's like the automotive industry is trying to forceably solve a problem that doesn't exist.
[doublepost=1492237675][/doublepost]

Google isn't perfect either, it has been said plenty of times, here and elsewhere.

Agreed 100%. Yet in this particular instance, IMO Google Maps is light years ahead of Apple Maps, for better or worse.
[doublepost=1492238117][/doublepost]

This x1000. Our roads and bridges are so crappy and ill maintained. If that wasn't the case, autonomous driving would be much further along imo.

Apple will be funding a program to fix the world's roads and bridges!

It's 2017 and Siri still sends me across the ocean when I want to go to the local store.
While directions are mostly accurate, Siri is garbage when it needs to interpret addresses and locations.

I do use Siri for voice dialing my saved contacts when driving. Yet I use the Google app for all other search and call commands for web-sourced companies and phone numbers while driving, as it is far more accurate in recognition and consistent execution of my commands.

 

[sudo1996]

Man, my MacBook Pro doesn't even work right. And now they're making a car.

 

[emm386]

I personally think that autonomous driving is one or two steps too complex for them. Judging by Siri's still very limited state (compared how far competitors actually are in the field of voice controlled usability), autonomous driving requires a LOT more artificial "intelligence".

Their service reliability is - comparatively - bad. When something doesn't work right for my on my iDevices, they are not even up front honest with their services status page. In hindsight, they claim that "only a very small fraction of useres" were affected by their minor service "unreliability", which is a wording that really infuriates me.

Something as safety - related as autonomous driving imho requires great transparency in regards of a corporate information policy. Something apple CLEARLY isn't.

I would much rather see Apple creating a kick-ass in-car voice control and infotainment system. That's more something they could do right and they have experience in!

 

[kstotlani]

And Mac Pro's are affiliated with Apple receiving Permits to Test self driving cars? You do know Apple has more than one Department that works on various projects within the Company?

I think he forgot to hold the sarcasm sign for you.

 

[andy42]

Money doesn't necessarily mean innovation, excellence, vision. Example: Microsoft.

...Example: Apple (since Tim "administrator" Cook)

 

[44267547]

I think he forgot to hold the sarcasm sign for you.

That must of been it. I was wondering what was missing. I was mystified what the similarities were between a driving permit and a Mac Pro.

 

[bladerunner2000]

It's like the automotive industry is trying to forceably solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Kind of like the Apple watch and all other smartwatches.

 

[Eric5h5]

The further you get away from the Cupertino, California bubble the worse the maps get to the point that if you're living in New Zealand you might as well spin a circle and randomly walk in a direction because it'll be more reliable than relying on Apple maps.

Nah. In my area, on the opposite side of the country from Cupertino, Apple Maps has fewer errors than Google Maps, though neither are perfect.

I feel most are simply chasing phantom dollars here, regardless of the fact that I personally have zero interest in self-driving cars. It's like the automotive industry is trying to forceably solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Your personal interests don't actually matter, though. The facts here are every year there's untold millions of dollars in damage, and many lives lost, through driver error—far too many distracted, drunk, and just plain bad drivers. That's a problem that "doesn't exist"? (Also the "problem" in industries that pay drivers, of having to pay drivers.)

--Eric

 

[sirdir]

could still just be the licensing of the software though.
UPDATE:
Just as I thought. It's the software not a "car" itself.

but that's very 'un Apple". They wouldn't licence their OS to another computer, but their self driving software to another car?

 

[kstotlani]

That must of been it. I was wondering what was missing. I was mystified what the similarities were between a driving permit and a Mac Pro.

The frustration with Mac users is that Apple is not focusing enough on Mac and has projects which takes resources away from Mac. Most of them are smart enough to know Apple is a big company and has the resources but somehow the outcome of their efforts towards the Mac lead to such comments.

 

[MrNomNoms]

Money doesn't necessarily mean innovation, excellence, vision. Example: Microsoft.

True; sometimes people say that a stock price can be an indicator of future performance of a company but it can also be a lagging indicator as seen by the fact that under Ballmer they were running in fumes and wasted money purchasing Nokia's handset division that ultimately helped Nokia in the long run given that Nokia is now focusing on the heavy lifting infrastructure for telecommunications companies rather than the fickle consumer space.

Nah. In my area, on the opposite side of the country from Cupertino, Apple Maps has fewer errors than Google Maps, though neither are perfect.

True but my point still remains given that you're still in the United States where your experience with Apple is tier one where as everyone outside of the US is treated like a second class citizen. Tim Cook not only needs to stop drinking from the iPad Kool aid he also needs to travel outside of the United States and actually realise just how bad his services are outside of the United States because it appears that the American bubble his blinded him to what the reality actually is.

 

[shaunp]

Apple maybe one thing at a time eh? Perhaps concentrate on the stagnant pile of junk that your current hardware line is before putting R&D into cars.... Just a thought.

 

[I7guy]

Money doesn't necessarily mean innovation, excellence, vision. Example: Microsoft.

Fair point. However, money means a company is doing more right than wrong and to your point it also doesn't mean a lack of innovation, excellence and vision.

 

[mr.bee]

Not one human ever has asked for a self driving car. I find this fascinating every company is focusing on it. It's so bizarre.

c'mon...

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” ~ Henry Ford


[doublepost=1492265557][/doublepost]

Ha, only in some cities in the States perhaps. It's still rubbish in most of the world.

It's very ok here in Brussels (Belgium).

Siri underestimates traffic and doesn't offer alternatives always.

Other then that I prefer using Siri to Google.

 

[skinned66]

So they may license this software to other companies but not MacOS. I'd bet more people want to use the latter than the former. I suppose that could change once more details are available.

 

[EdT]

For me, Apple Maps is just as accurate, over-all, as Google Maps. In some cities (U.S.) Google does better, and in some cities Apple does. Because Google's core business is collecting and selling data about how and where people use their software I don't trust what they do with the data they collect from me when I use it.

I get engineering magazines at work, like Control Design, and they've had articles or news blurbs about self driving cars for years. In most of these magazines the consensus is that the companies that will finally get this technology to mass market will be an established auto industry. Tesla is making limited run, expensive cars and has had to delay their affordable entry model for several years because mass producing the affordable model has run into snag after snag. This is what Ford, GM, and the European car makers have up to 100 years of experience doing and fixing. Those established car companies also have--lets call it clout, because saying paid-for legislators sounds so cynical-- with lawmakers in most of the worlds continents allowing them to get laws passed or blocked as needed for this type of car to become possible without getting sued out of existence.

As far as who is asking for this, at one time I would have laughed at you if you told me young people wouldn't be interested in owning and driving cars, but that seems to be the case today in the U.S., at least in metropolitan areas. And in many countries it could streamline traffic enough to make roads much safer and faster.

And they could track you better that way as well.

 

[Bacillus]

"Sorry, unable to determine the cause of your fatal crash.
For security reasons, you have permanently been logged out.
Only a fraction of our users seems affected (error code 09GH6441)"
[doublepost=1492268095][/doublepost]

I don't think the rumors said the project was disbanded but rather the focus was shifted to software. It makes sense because if you don't have the software right there's no reason to build a vehicle. But I'm still not convinced that Apple will be able to sell software for somebody else to use in their cars. All the big auto makers are already working on their own self driving vehicles. They don't need software from Apple.

It's even worse.
Many realized that if a corp like Apple gets in between themselves and the user, they'll be toast on the long run.
Therefore CarPlay support has taken longer and delivers less than carmakers own proprietary infotainment/navi systems
[doublepost=1492268593][/doublepost]

The car will stop driving as soon as a phone call comes in!

...and changing sound volume will obfuscate everything (except in YouTube)

 

[I7guy]

"Sorry, unable to determine the cause of your fatal crash.
For security reasons, you have permanently been logged out.
Only a fraction of our users seems affected (error code 09GH6441)"

Unfortunately tesla can proudly wear this bit of hyperbolic sarcasm as a badge.

 

[Winni]

Money doesn't necessarily mean innovation, excellence, vision. Example: Microsoft.

You know what? Over the last years, Microsoft has had more of all those things than Apple and Google together. But seeing how broken many things in Windows 10 and other Microsoft products are, that says even more about the pathetic state Apple's mystic product pipeline is in.

 

[Mac 128]

The further you get away from the Cupertino, California bubble the worse the maps get to the point that if you're living in New Zealand you might as well spin a circle and randomly walk in a direction because it'll be more reliable than relying on Apple maps.

Funny how I was just on the Gold Coast in January, and Apple Maps worked perfectly. Guess they must just have it out for Kiwis, unless of course you're grossly exaggerating ...

 

[wigby]

Question: If Apple made a perfect clone of the Tesla Model 3 and both were available today at the same price, which would you buy?

The only pro I see with Apple is it'd have better integration with the iPhone (because Tesla just doesn't seem to give a crap about CarPlay). I'd go with Tesla - they have 13 years of experience making EVs and 9 years of experience selling and maintaining EVs while Apple has virtually none. Plus Tesla has the supercharger network... although I could see Apple being willing to enter into a partnership with Tesla to allow their customers to use the network, much like iPhone users can use the AT&T network.

Interesting but I think you answered your own question for us all. If Apple made a Tesla CLONE, why would anyone care about it? I still expect Apple to enter the car market with an actual car but not if they only plan to copy designs from others. Besides their car OS software, which I expect to outpace others in terms of autonomous driving, ridesharing and safety, I expect Apple to have the best looking and/or best designed car in the entire market.
[doublepost=1492273653][/doublepost]

You know what? Over the last years, Microsoft has had more of all those things than Apple and Google together. But seeing how broken many things in Windows 10 and other Microsoft products are, that says even more about the pathetic state Apple's mystic product pipeline is in.

I think it's only by necessity. MS is still rebuilding their brand and entire company focus. They are making big bets that need to pay off now. Apple and Google don't have that urgency so they are making big bets that need to pay off in 10 years. Perhaps Apple will become the MS of 2010 in 10 years time but they are not that now.
[doublepost=1492274103][/doublepost]

For me, Apple Maps is just as accurate, over-all, as Google Maps. In some cities (U.S.) Google does better, and in some cities Apple does. Because Google's core business is collecting and selling data about how and where people use their software I don't trust what they do with the data they collect from me when I use it.

I get engineering magazines at work, like Control Design, and they've had articles or news blurbs about self driving cars for years. In most of these magazines the consensus is that the companies that will finally get this technology to mass market will be an established auto industry. Tesla is making limited run, expensive cars and has had to delay their affordable entry model for several years because mass producing the affordable model has run into snag after snag. This is what Ford, GM, and the European car makers have up to 100 years of experience doing and fixing. Those established car companies also have--lets call it clout, because saying paid-for legislators sounds so cynical-- with lawmakers in most of the worlds continents allowing them to get laws passed or blocked as needed for this type of car to become possible without getting sued out of existence.

As far as who is asking for this, at one time I would have laughed at you if you told me young people wouldn't be interested in owning and driving cars, but that seems to be the case today in the U.S., at least in metropolitan areas. And in many countries it could streamline traffic enough to make roads much safer and faster.

And they could track you better that way as well.

I think your theory is sound but you also have to look at the entrenched auto industry. Their legacy is part of their problem because they are so reliant on fossil fuels and the politics around that. Look at their decades of failure to produce a cheap and reliable electric car. It feels like Tesla came in overnight and one upped the entire auto industry. Now we know it took Tesla a decade to innovate to where they are today but we also know that the auto industry wouldn't be where they are today if Tesla didn't give them all a kick in the pants.

 

[9081094]

I hope it's not using Apple Maps for directions.

Or Siri for voice control Turn next corner to the left.... Siri: are you sure you want maximum speed? The limit is 30 here... okay, maximum speed set

 

[TallManNY]

Personally, I'd buy neither. Those advantages you list for Apple... they aren't immediately transferable to autonomous vehicles. No current self driving car uses a 'big computer'. Why would someone give Apple an edge in software writing? Afaik, Apple hasn't demonstrated any expertise in software for autonomous driving. What in Apple's supply chain management history causes you to believe they would have any sway in the automotive supply chain? Conflating what they do with phones with sourcing in the automobile industry is folly.

I do understand this was a hypothetical posed by @ArtOfWarfare, but your conclusions aren't based on real world problems faced by the auto industry, much less a newcomer trying to bring a product to market. Apple can't even properly negotiate with the entertainment industry. I can imagine their negotiations with the automotive industry which is even more insular than the entertainment industry.

I certainly see reasons to give Apple an edge in software right because the car is going to have to run on an OS and I think iOS is the best mobile OS and MacOs is the best computer OS. Apple also manages a supply chain that produces more of a single complicated item than any other computer makes of anything of similar complexity. And they do it in the MUCH more competitive space of small scale consumer electronics. I don't think the auto industry is as sophisticated as the consumer electronics industry. My sense and based on some reading in the area that there is a lot of fat to cut in a production chain that has things like Mercedes selling a $100,000 car. In consumer electronics the manufacturers face issue like "can I get away with using three screws here instead of four screws". I'm not saying that auto industry doesn't face this stuff. But it isn't life or death when they sell to a great extent on the basis of the badge on the hood.
[doublepost=1492276322][/doublepost]

Why is it that people who don't know are the ones screaming the loudest. Do you have any idea what the electrical system in a car is like? Car headlights alone are around 55watts each, the IA core of the Intel Kaby Lake i7-7700 consumes a maximum of 40 watts (other parts of the die bring it up to around 55). Modern car alternators output around 150 amps (1800 watts at 12 volts).

Car stereo head unitss typically take 60-100 watts just because nobody cares to make them more efficient because so much power is available. Heck, they used to light a cigarette by shorting the battery through a piece of heater wire. Any idea how much power that takes.

That's just the current electical system. A 150HP engine is actually producing over 100,000 watts of power, most of which is going to propel the car. Even if you want to talk about an electric car, the amount of power going to propulsion makes little things like a top end Intel CPU or an electric heater for those of use in norther climates look like nothing as a power drain.

So, while there is zero reason to use custom silicon for power saving reasons....reliability is very, very important. And small run custom silicon glued together from modules Apple buys from several companies is not remotely as reliably as a mainstream CPU.

Good point, though I'm hardly screaming. The CPU power seems meaningless compared to those numbers. Point taken.

But yes, we are only talking about electric cars. Tesla is about to release a $40k electric car that is going to be very very high performing. Not really much point in talking about anything else on a long term basis. And any electricity savings in performance of that car does two things, it extends the range and lowers the size of the necessary battery. Lowing the size of the batter reduces weight, which extends the range, improves performance, and saves money. So you can see the savings compound very quickly. However, like you say, the CPU isn't likely relevant.
[doublepost=1492276419][/doublepost]

Wait, what? You do realise that MobileMe, Maps and iCloud are Apple products? And it's not like Photos, iTunes and iWorks offerings are top notch either. So no, I don't consider Apple do be an excellent software developer.

I'm more focused on the OS that the car will have to run. And yes I think Apple is a better software developer than any of the auto manufacturers. And better than Microsoft. But not as good as Google.