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If it NEEDS a stylus it's a failure - not if its an option.

Back when Steve jobs made those comments, a stylus was more limited than fingers. It could only point and draw. It couldn't pinch to zoom, multi-finger swipes weren't possible, and it was easy to lose.

Adding a stylus in ADDITION to a hand is a good idea, and it's not hypocritical.
Wacom nudge nudge

The real issue back then was thin tablets didn't have very high resolution or fast scanning and detection.
 
The Surface Pro 3 is great but sadly I bet the iPad Pro will outsell it. The Surface offers a full OS and actual intel processors among many other benefits. Of course its Microsoft though so it must have been made in the 1980s and no where as cool as the iPad Pro that was made in 2020, which means somehow time travel has been made possible. Le sigh.
And good specs. Don't forget about specs. It has an i7, 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD.
I don't see it as a tablet, for me it's a proper laptop replacement. Light and portable for browsing, reading, watching movies in a plane, and powerful enough for coding and photo editing at home where i attached a 27 inch monitor, keyboard and mouse to it. :)
The ability to run desktop class apps is the selling point for me.
 
I fear a teardown will reveal what happened to all those unsold surface RTs and felt keyboards. lol

That or Jony Ive just hired Balmer to the Apple design team....

Yes things are that bad.
 
No way Ive does a video of this without using an inhaler.

Ugh... do I wait for the superb iPhone numbers or just sell my stock now
 
Everyone seems to be under the impression that the iPad Pro will be slower than the Surface Pro 3, just because the SP3 has an Intel processor and runs Windows. Based on what they claimed in the presentation, the iPad Pro should have a Geekbench 3 multicore score of over 8100. The iPad Air 2 had a score of 4525. The SP3 with 64 bit Windows and Intel Core i7-4650U 2295 MHz has a score of 5755. The closest score among Macs is the 2009 Mac (NOT Macbook) Pro - Intel Xeon W3520 2670 MHz (4 cores) with a score of 8063.

If this turns out to be accurate, that's pretty stunning. I think the power of the iPad Pro is being vastly underestimated by many people. We'll see when it gets released and benchmarked.
Except it can only run iPad apps so all that power for nada. Also, you're guessing at the Geekbench results. Let's wait for some facts aka you'll have to wait till November.
 
We live in a world where being adaptable to changing conditions--a GOOD THING--is widely considered a fault in our leaders. "Hypocritical" or "flip-flopping." It's as though logical thought itself has become a sin...

(In any case, "if it NEEDS a stylus" was the meaning of Jobs' quote--and many awful pre-iPad tablets did need one. That's nothing against having the option for artists. Plus, I'm not sure how Jobs's statement then could be hypocritical vs. what he says now... he's dead, and it's not him making the decision. You'd "hate Apple" less if they were a slave to everything past CEOs said?)

P.S. Apple shipped their own iPad-only physical keyboard alongside the very first iPad 1, and ever since has sold their BT keyboard as an iPad accessory. They have never not sold an Apple keyboard for iPad. (Plus Apple has sold 3rd-party keyboards and drawing pens for years.) And you have invented the quote about "physical keyboards will be a thing of the past." Apple predicted that physical keyboards were not necessary on phones—and they were right.

Hypocritical is bashing MS and android products for thier features, until those features are introduced into apple products and then defending them. A trait mainly executed by Apple fanbois.

I've seen the surface pro (KB and stylus) take a hammering on MR, those same individuals are praising the iPad pro. Hypocrites.

first iPad KB was a dock. The iPad was never positioned to require a KB. The iPad pro is being positioned to need the new KB. See the difference........ Aka the iPad Air is not getting one ;)
 
Except it can only run iPad apps so all that power for nada. Also, you're guessing at the Geekbench results. Let's wait for some facts aka you'll have to wait till November.
Yes, and is there some reason you don't think anyone's developing new or updated iPad apps that take advantage of that power? Is there some inherent limitation of iPad apps I'm unaware of that prevents them from being as good if not better than desktop applications?

I'm not taking a blind guess. I'm going off of already established Geekbench results and Phil's claim that the A9X chip is 1.8x faster. The Geekbench scores scale directly. That suggests a score of over 8100. If it's anywhere close, are you really going to say with a straight face that's not impressive?
 
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In what way is Microsoft selling a keyboard with a tablet innovation?

It's a tablet that runs a full OS, and with the KB it becomes a laptop replacement? It's quite obvious, hence it competing vrs an Mb air.

How is a 12" IPad Air with a stylus and KB more innovative ?
 
Yes, and is there some reason you don't think anyone's developing new or updated iPad apps that take advantage of that power? Is there some inherent limitation of iPad apps I'm unaware of that prevents them from being as good if not better than desktop applications?

I'm not taking a blind guess. I'm going off of already established Geekbench results and Phil's claim that the A9X chip is 1.8x faster. The Geekbench scores scale directly. That suggests a score of over 8100. If it's anywhere close, are you really going to say with a straight face that's not impressive?
Apple inflates their numbers. Lets meetup again in November and talk when we have facts. I'll be blown away if it reaches those numbers but I highly doubt it will.
 
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Surface Pro 3 wants to be desktop and tablet in one. iPad Pro wants only to be a professional touch tablet. Two fundamentally different philosophies. iOS is touch uncompromised. There will be teething problems of course, but you don't change things without following your philosophy fully. Apple said no to Flash and now we can all thank them.
Except you miss the entire point of what he said....
 
You do know that there have been 3rd party iPad keyboards way before surface existed, right? Apple's new keyboard is just another one that is entering the market of iPad keyboards.
Where there keyboards that connected via a magnetic port to transfer power and data? And ive had the nerve to call it new technology LMAO
 
Will it connect to the pro in portrait mode? That's the one problem I have with the ipad Air case.
 
Mac Motion
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charging the price they charge for a stylus and keyboard cover is innovation indeed

I hate the "magic"/"smart" naming convention they put on their accessories. So unnatural and tacky when your friend asking you what cover/case/Apple accessories are you using.

"I have a magic mouse, magic track pad, smart cover, smart case, smart keyboard, magic pencil!"

kindergarten speak...
Did someone day magic pencil? Up and down and around and flick.

 
I'll be the first to admit I bought my Surface Pro 3 just for the experience. What I didn't expect was to find it incredibly useful. Oh sure I knew it would be far superior to the iPad, but until it was in my laptop bag along with my iPad Air and MBP, little did I realize just how handy it would be.

Just one more reminder that iPads do what iPads to best. Surf the web and play movies.
 
They once said "if it needs a stylus the device is a failure". And, "physical keyboards will be a thing of the past". So now, since they have a new stylus and new keyboard, both of which Apple and the fanbois made fun of in the past, we are supposed to think this is innovation? Really? I just call things as I see them.

You really should analyse wider than verbatim.

That was the view of the then CEO (who is now dead) when talking about a 3.5" phone, which had no 3rd party apps, and he was talking about navigation (which is still easy with a finger). We're now 8 years later, referring to a 12.9" device, with complex 3rd party apps and talking about content creation (which mostly sucks without a stylus). That doesn't take a genius to figure out.

Similarly built in hardware keyboards were in regards to a phone. Go to your local phone shop - you'll see they were right.

Also Apple have allowed you to pair keyboards with both their phones and tablets way before the Surface was even a product. Hell they even had keyboard docks years before Surface. http://www.cnet.com/uk/products/apple-ipad-keyboard-dock-series/

I'll leave this here too, as it's really important for successful businesses...

“He would flip on something so fast that you would forget that he was the one taking the 180 degree polar [opposite] position the day before,” - http://allthingsd.com/20120529/steve-jobs-was-an-awesome-flip-flopper-says-tim-cook/

That fact you are stuck with a dead man's words from 8 years ago is telling. Don't get stuck in past ideas. Change if you figure out how to do something better.

Did someone day magic pencil? Up and down and around and flick.


Wow, that's a throwback!!
 
It's a tablet that runs a full OS, and with the KB it becomes a laptop replacement? It's quite obvious, hence it competing vrs an Mb air.

How is a 12" IPad Air with a stylus and KB more innovative ?

I didn't say that the iPad Air with KB was more innovative. Where are you getting that?

I just said that the Microsoft Surface with KB was NOT innovative.
 
Will it connect to the pro in portrait mode? That's the one problem I have with the ipad Air case.

No, the magnetic contacts mean the keyboard will only work in landscape mode. If you want that you should get a separate case/stand and BT keyboard.
 
You clearly hate Apple, so why do you hang out on an Apple forum?
I hate Apple now. They are running off into tangental markets for short money and this will eventually trap them in a corner. I've spent thirty years in and out of the IT business, mostly using Microsoft, before that CPM, before that Fortran & COBOL.. Twelve years ago I personally switched to OS X because it was a stable Unix based OS unlike Microsoft's wobbly products at the time. I still play with Microsoft and Android stuff and I can say conclusively that Apple's obsession with fashion, watch bands, music thugs, and color coordinated products will put the company in third place.
 
I still hate that tri-pod/triangle thing that supports the iPad in cases like this. I still prefer the Surface Pro type kickstand. I know that Apple considers that "ugly", hanging on the back of the Surface, but it allows simple attachment of the keyboard and the kickstand is convenient even when you don't have/use the keyboard.
 
“He would flip on something so fast that you would forget that he was the one taking the 180 degree polar [opposite] position the day before,” - http://allthingsd.com/20120529/steve-jobs-was-an-awesome-flip-flopper-says-tim-cook/

It's totally cool to change your mind, change direction with an idea or a product when you don't publicly MOCK the very thing you are now doing. I remember when the new macpro was shown off, Phil Schiller said, "can't innovate my ass". I didn't get that attitude from him over the pencil or the keyboard, in fact he looked like he was mortified that he had to announce those things. I like what Apple used to stand for - they went about their business trying to make the best of the best. Now it seems they are so caught up in fashion and ancillary crap that they have lost sight of the big picture.

I still want apple to win, to innovate and to make awesome products. You know what would have wow'd me? To me the ipad pro is stupid in it's current incarnation. Now if the ipad pro's OS morphed into OS X light when the keyboard was attached, that would have blown me away. A true game changer that is truly a bridge between tablet and laptop. No one has successfully done that yet IMO, not even the surface. I know I need to contain some of my cynicism when it comes to the new apple but sometimes I fail :(
 
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