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People who are pro DMA are likely going be very vocal about encryption. I would say there is a big overlap in this venn diagram.

But seriously, do you think everyone who is for this law is mindlessly cheering for everything that comes out of Brussels? We have opinions based on facts and believes, like everyone else.
No no no! You see, everything has to be black and white. Either you have to agree with everything an entity does, or you have to disagree with it. Using reason and critical thinking is unnecessary when it comes to informing one's opinions. Blindly siding with your favored entity is way.
 
Stop, they didn't even get that far. Most likely Tim S apologized and promised he would behave.

He did promise to behave in an email sent to Phil right after the one that gets publicly posted all the time but always seems to omit the reply. Apple then terminated the account after this promise.
 
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People who are pro DMA are likely going be very vocal about encryption. I would say there is a big overlap in this venn diagram.

But seriously, do you think everyone who is for this law is mindlessly cheering for everything that comes out of Brussels? We have opinions based on facts and believes, like everyone else.
Based on the attitudes of those supporting the EU...it sure seems like it! Put "EU" and "Apple" in the same sentence and minds are made up before anyone even reads the article. People who are for this law can't even be honest and admit that the DMA is NOT some perfect law that will ONLY bring benefits to consumers and no downsides.. Getting someone who supports this law to admit that there MIGHT be unintended consequences seems like an exercise in futility! They refuse to admit that there might be downsides to the DMA, because all they care about is "EU win, Apple lose".
 
No, Apple realised this stupid move to block epic was going to get the EU to completely tear apart Apple’s approach to the DMA which is an entirely ropey approach to it. It’ll happen eventually anyway, but now it won’t be so soon.
Apple's approach to the DMA is legal, but not on high moral ground. I'm sure that the EU's legislature had to compromise heavily just to pass the DMA in its current form. Something more specific, that would have prevented Apple from doing interesting actions, would not likely have had enough votes to pass.
 
No no no! You see, everything has to be black and white. Either you have to agree with everything an entity does, or you have to disagree with it. Using reason and critical thinking is unnecessary when it comes to informing one's opinions. Blindly siding with your favored entity is way.
Here, here. Opinions, speculation and rumors be banned from MR.
 
If your take is true we wouldn’t have had 15yrs of the App Store! It’s been an unmitigated success and paid out billions to developers and started thousands of devs shops etc. if they were all so impeded by this 30% (15% I think it’s is now right?) then no one would have survived.

The reality is we are here because the big boys (epic et al) went freemium and destroyed the concept of normal devs making a decent margin from their sales. It’s literally called “a race to the bottom”. Where the big boys in a market undercut the normal pricing because they use their profits from elsewhere and subsidise their business activity.

Freemium gaming forced everyone into giving away apps for free and forcing games to be divided in a way where the money was made outside of the App Store but used the AppStore to gain the customer. Which is why Apple put the anti steering thing in the first place to prevent companies gaming the system.

Apples policies literally created the indie game dev scene as a viable entity. Big game companies destroyed it. And now people blame Apple. Everyone forgets how we got to where we are.
Im not going to pretend that i understand or know everything regarding the gaming industry or how much money apple developers earned and how much they paid.
But one thing is for certain, the only reason Apple has managed to charge 30% is because they had 0 competition inside of their OS, no competitive app stores, web browsers were same as safari with their unique UI Skin on top, so again they could not be better than Safari only same or worse in some cases.
If you are the only game in town that does not leave your developers or users any wiggle room or effective choice.. you either pay up or dont access billion + people that have apple devices.
From a business perspective thats foolish as you effectively reduce your revenue.
Paying apple 30% still gives you 70% of the revenue you would have not had.
But as an example, i am a web developer and we sometimes develop progressive web apps that function more less the same as native apps in the apple/google store.
On Android/Windows/Google Chrome when you install the web app it offers roughly 90-95% of the functionality you would get from the native app in their respective stores.
Apple has refused to enable full functionality that Progressive Web apps can provide to their users so currently Apple/Safari offer between 80% of the full functionality because they intentionally gimp it so it can not compete with their app store.
also, its important to mention that Progressive web apps are excluded from apple/google tax and only thing you pay is 3-5% for payment processor of your choice which is amazing for developers and companies that decide to take that route. However most companies know that apple userbase are simple people who dont know how to install/enable/use progressive web app so they launch their native app and eat up the 30% tax just to get access to larger userbase.
Over the last 3 years we have developed roughly 10-13 web apps that act as native ones and that number is on the rise, so more and more small/medium sized companies chose this route, and EU rules might make it easier, but it remains to be seen :)
It will be a long year with lots of re-adjustments for both Big Tech and developers/users.
 
The purpose of an alternative store is so you don't have to go to Apple (or in your example Target) and get their approval to sell your products. You can set up your own shop away from Apple (or Target in your case) by using your own resources and not Apple's (or Target's in your case).
You can't use all your own resources. You need Apple to make it possible to do what you're asking. Which is why they get to collect a fee. You can't get around that part. It's Apple who built the device and OS.
The way this so-called alternative app store works now is like having to ask Target for permission to start your own mom & pop business selling items that would compete with Target.
Within the same store as Target.
Again, you're in the iPhone in this example. Same as if you're inside Target. Both Target and Apple need to make room (for lack of better terminology) for your mom & pop store to exist. And many other things like providing electricity and a way for customers to find you in the store, etc. To protect customers from mom & pop issues spilling over into Target and vice versa.

This is not a desktop computer. No matter how much people want to believe it is or think it is. iPhones are compute devices that make calls and are purpose built for that. Desktop computers don't fit in your pocket and do "more" stuff. Again, for lack of better terminology.
And if you have anything negative to say about Target, Target can terminate your business license whenever they feel like it.
Yes they can, if your agreement is breached. Best Buy allows Apple to run a store within it. There are stores that allow this co-existence to happen. They can agree to disagree at anytime the contract allows.
 
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I'm wondering what all these people are going to do/say when the EU mandates they must have a backdoor to all encryption.
i thought Snowden showed to world how big tech literally gives everything to the NSA and other similar agencies, so i would not be surprised if all major companies have backdoors and easy access/data handover process for governaments.
Companies like to pretend how they are privacy/safety focused for the sake of PR but behind the scenes most if not all are forced to handover whatever they are asked for...
 
Why can't I just walk into Target, setup a booth and sell some stuff?
You can as long as you give who ever is working as security a cut. The Girl Scouts had tables inside the vestibules at Lowes, Krogers and a few other places around town the past weeks. I know I haven't seen anybody from Nabisco or the store corporation flipping tables. Besides, I wouldn't be the first person the Scouts earned their "beatdown" badges on. Who knew they hand those little ones nunchuks during meetings?
 
Is it just me or does it sound like Sweeney is having a lawyer double check his tweets now?

Apple may not have been able to get away with it, but Schiller's stern note got the point across.
 
Based on the attitudes of those supporting the EU...it sure seems like it! Put "EU" and "Apple" in the same sentence and minds are made up before anyone even reads the article. People who are for this law can't even be honest and admit that the DMA is NOT some perfect law that will ONLY bring benefits to consumers and no downsides.. Getting someone who supports this law to admit that there MIGHT be unintended consequences seems like an exercise in futility!
I've said several times in different places here it may be a fiasco, or a damp squib. The EU does screw up ...


However, I believe the DMA may well work, as long as there is sufficient will to enforce it. I must confess I am really surprised by the petulant stance being taken by Apple. All of the other gatekeepers seem to realise that this is the way it's going to be, and are complying smoothly, even if they are still trying to get themselves exempted (e.g. ByteDance - Tiktok).
Apple on the other hand is behaving disgracefully.
 
You can as long as you give who ever is working as security a cut, you probably can. The Girl Scouts had tables inside the vestibules at Lowes, Krogers and a few other places around town the past weeks. I know I haven't seen anybody from Nabisco or the store corporation flipping tables.

Yeah but the girl scouts are better connected than the mafia. Those little girls know how to make that paper.
 
Based on the attitudes of those supporting the EU...it sure seems like it! Put "EU" and "Apple" in the same sentence and minds are made up before anyone even reads the article. People who are for this law can't even be honest and admit that the DMA is NOT some perfect law that will ONLY bring benefits to consumers and no downsides.. Getting someone who supports this law to admit that there MIGHT be unintended consequences seems like an exercise in futility!
I haven't seen anybody saying the law is perfect, but maybe I missed it. I would disagree with them anyway. I also don't see anyone saying there will surely be no unintended consequences. In all likelihood there probably will be, but currently they exist as theoretical worst-case scenarios dreamed up as counterpoints by the endlessly pro-Apple crowd. This crowd also pretends unforeseen consequences can't be mitigated. Like anything, in the end do the benefits outweigh the negatives? I have yet to see anything that's actually happened as a result of this law that would make me say, "oh wow, the DMA was a terrible idea. Look at all of this fallout. The EU should never have done this and we should revert to the pre-DMA paradigm immediately." Quite the opposite in fact as so far I like the impact on Apple's domineering control over consumers and businesses that it's having.

Come to think of it, what I don't see is anyone on your side of the argument saying that there are benefits that could come from this law. Just doom and gloom.

Kermit-sipping-tea.jpg
 
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What's the problem?

Choices are great!

This is a one time thing you do, just like all the other options Apple themselves put up on all iOS devices during setup

I'll take Firefox at the bottom there btw...thx

Seriously, every major corporation has lost the high ground on talking about user confusion. They don't get to pull that card anymore. Every single one of them exploits deceptive design on purpose. They can stick one more setup screen in there that's actually useful.
 
I just dont understand why do we all argue about huge ass soules corporations valued at billions or trillions that do not care about us at the end of the day and their only goal in this world is to earn more money for their shareholders and larger chokehold over their users/market...
If you love someones product use it.
If you dont, then sell it or dont buy it..
But being pro some company or pro gov instead of pro consumer is dumb...
People think we are pro EU gov or Commission and support everything they do, but nah we stand with ordinary people and what benefits us over big companies...
 
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He did promise to behave in an email sent to Phil right after the one that gets publicly posted all the time but always seems to omit the reply. Apple then terminated the account after this promise.
😂
Most likely a smart@$$ answer by Tim S.
I'm sorry, I just think Tim S is an @$$ for doing all this. This E A S I L Y could have been worked out. And I point to Spotify and Netflix. Both don't provide a way for you to sign up in the App to avoid paying Apple anything, and they stayed on the store the whole time. While EPIC broke the rules knowing they will get the app pulled. Which cost them customers and money. All the way up the judicial ladder. Only to lose AGAIN. Now, they still want to poke the bear but in another country and expect all to just be "OK" right?

Again, just play nice. They could have pulled IAP from the iOS app of Fortnite while fighting Apple in the courts and letting the courts decide the outcome. No instigation or petty back and forth needed. Just let the system work. WHILE having the app available to your fans. Then this whole thing with the store in the EU would not have been an issue at all. They would hav made the store and no bickering would have come of it.

Tim S just can't help himself.
 
Tim Sweeney tweeted so it must be true!

Bets on how fast before Epic breaks some rules and gets banned?

I really don't think they'll do that this time. They made their point. They gambled and lost, and they paid the price. Even they know better than to double down on that tactic.
 
All UK based, it did make me wonder, with the UK entwined with so many EU laws still I was thinking we may be caught under this too? Not that I would use a lot of alt app stores, but the idea of having some game emulators for old consoles without having to jump through hoops is nice.

According to this Apple document, the UK shouldn't be included: https://support.apple.com/en-us/118110
 
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But being pro some company or pro gov instead of pro consumer is dumb...

Well hold on - you're lumping it altogether

I'm Pro Consumer & Pro Gov, because I am a consumer and the government is elected by people (like me)

I'm not pro MegaCorp that is too big and too powerful and trying to eliminate any competition and strangle everyone to death through rent seeking, exorbitant fees, nickel & diming devs & customers and overcharging (by like 10x) for component upgrades.
 
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