Apple Reinstates Epic Games EU Developer Account, Paving the Way for Alternative App Store

[klasma]

They own the software that makes your iPhone an iPhone. When you buy a phone you pay for a license to use that software the way they say you can use it.

That’s not how software licenses work in Europe. From https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380:

“This decision [by The Court of Justice for the European Union] […] means software licence agreements and all their terms and conditions (not just the one prohibiting transfer) can be ignored by European courts if the licence period is indefinite […]. Such a licence will be regarded as a simple sale and sales of personal property cannot be tagged with conditions on how the property can be used.”

If you buy an iPhone in Europe, you own it, including the copy of iOS contained.

 

[TigerNike23]

Let's not forget Epic's major backer Tencent. They have a 40% stake of Epic in all of this. For Spotify it's only 9.1% of shares.

Tencent, the Chinese company? How interesting…

 

[Jensend]

Epic does the same exact thing. Makes games exclusive to their store and block them from going to the most popular platform, Steam,

But any device that runs Steam can also run the Epic Store simultaneously. It's a minor inconvenience at most to me as a consumer. Epic doesn't own the computer's OS and prevent me from installing Steam.

they take a percentage from each sale, etc.

No one is exclusively complaining about a store taking a cut. They are complaining about the store being the only store allowed on a device a consumer bought and owns, when a duopoly has control of that device market.

 

[N47H]

And given that it was a span of maybe 24 hours from start to now...I seriously doubt the EU had ANYTHING to do with this. You really believe those several adjudicating bodies investigated the problem, compiled their evidence, discussed their findings, and came to an agreement on what to do in 24 hours? No government on earth works that fast. None.

Yes they did have something to do with it, they hadn’t investigated it yet but I think Apple were very short sighted in their treatment of Epic in that they weren’t expecting the EU to announce they will be probing into it. If the EU did probe it they’d soon realise that Apple aren’t really following the rules of their legislation and are bending them massively, the EU would have torn it apart and then Apple would have been worse off than if they had just let Epic have their account.

The EU will likely still make Apple change this approach at some point, but it won’t be quite so soon now.

 

[SmugMaverick]

I said this before but Apple Arcade is a major reason for Apples little fit over an epic games store on iOS.

Apple Arcade is *******e and dying, we know Apple is pushing their services over others and just got fined 2 billion for this crap.

Honestly, Apple is pretty disgusting these days.

They make Google, Samsung and Microsoft look angelic.

 

[Lethal-Bacon]

This was never about cheaper prices. This was about Epic wanting more of the pie for themselves. Prices are not going to decrease. These alternative stores need to make money, too, so they'll likely just charge their own commission, replacing Apple's.

It was a big waste of everybody's time. I wish Apple had the balls to step over this nonsense and just launch an app-store platform globally. Silence everyone before they even open their mouth. It's the right thing to do and what we'll see eventually.

Smaller companies will fight for the users with cheaper prices, same for the rival app stores, they cant hope to attract users if they will charge same 30% apple does, they will go to 10-15% tops for pay to play games and subscription kind of apps.
Epic takes 12% for their PC Game sales, which is reasonable in my opinion.
I know a bunch of clients we develop web sites/apps for that charge less money because they refuse to publish their apps in the apple app store and simply use progressive web app we develop for them.

 

[MilaM]

A side-loaded app that has not been reviewed by Apple could do anything! And if it has been reviewed by Apple, what's the harm in having it in a separate App Store you have to download so there is accountability there?

If a side-loaded app breaks your phone this bad, what you have on your hand is serious exploit potentially worth big bucks. A modern OS might kill your app when it behaves in unexpected ways, but is should never crash the system.

When has a program killed your Mac last time? Does it happen often?

 

[iOS Geek]

Here's how it's seen by others

XDA Developers - Apple lets Epic Games back on the App Store after a DMA scolding

Yahoo Finance - Apple retreats in Epic feud, allows Fortnite return in EU

PCMag Australia - Apple Backs Down, Will Allow Epic Games to Create iOS App Store in EU

I can go on....

Ahh yes...providing bites from companies who's sole purpose is to word things in whatever way will get them the most internet traffic, really supports you.

Which headline would you click on to read more? "Apple Backs Down" or "Epic Commits to Following Rules"? Despite the fact that BOTH of those headlines would be true and are in regards to the same exact story..."Apple Backs Down" is more likely to get clicked on. It's certainly the one I would click on to learn more!

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Apple saw that Thierry Breton tweet then !

 

[j26]

I bet Apple knew they weren't in the right when they denied it, so they first disabled Epic's account to prove a point, and then reinstated it to come off as "the good guys"

I visualise it more as someone decides this will be a great idea, does it, pours a coffee and stretches back into his chair, and then someone else runs into the room screaming "What the hell have you done!!!"

It just looks incompetently handled.

 

[MilaM]

And given that it was a span of maybe 24 hours from start to now...I seriously doubt the EU had ANYTHING to do with this. You really believe those several adjudicating bodies investigated the problem, compiled their evidence, discussed their findings, and came to an agreement on what to do in 24 hours? No government on earth works that fast. None.

The EU Commission did not have to do a lot. Because Apple realized themselves what a huge mistake they have made.

 

[treacher]

Failed analogy. They are opening the store directly inside Target and using everything Target its paying for to sell their product and paying Target $0. This is not across the street when you need Targets customers and Targets hardware and Targets software to sell your products.

Wait, so we're going to access the alternate app stores INSIDE of the App Store app? Is that really how it's going to work? You have to open the App Store and then navigate to the other stores?

I always thought the analogy of having one single store (App Store) in the entire town (iOS) was the correct one. Moving to Android would be moving to another town.

 

[bluecoast]

I dont know where you guys are from, but things work a little bit differently in the EU.
For example... all the "rules" apple has set up for their "compliance" to our new law(Digital Markets Act) are pretty much irrelevant and some of them even illegal under the DMA if you understand the new law.
Apple has 0 say in who they approve/let compete with them and create the rival App Store on the iOS and they are NOT allowed to ban/terminate any competition regardless if they break what Apple calls their "rules" for the EU.
What they consider compliance is malicious compliance at best and borderline illegal.
For example the "Core Technology Fee" is straight up illegal.
DMA mandates that Apple is to set up their OS in such way that it enables any willing competitor to develop and deploy their rival store FOR FREE.
The only company that decides which apps can and can not be published on rival app store is the rival app store developer/owner.
So when Epic creates and publishes their App Store in the EU there is NOTHING Apple can do to remove them and can not dictate what apps can and can not be published.
Only scenario where Apple can refuse an App to be published is if said app has verifiable malicious code inside of it that will harm the iOS users.

So ladies and gentlemen this year will be full of fireworks, and im gonna go on a limb and say that starting next month after EU Commission reviews all the proposed compliance changes Gatekeepers have sent them that they will immediatelly start a full investigation into Apple for their Core Technology Fee among other things that they are not supposed to dictate.
As you could have seen by events in past weeks, EU has teeth and it will force Apple to change any and all things that is not within our laws, pulling out of market big as EU is not an option for Apple because their shareholders would take a giant L and that would most likely result in board starting to replace Apple Execs who thought that this petty route and complete disregard of our laws was a good idea.

Please do not call me an Apple hater or anything like that, i am a developer and a fan of technology in general, i love Iphones and i use Macs for work on daily basis but that does not mean that i cant be objective towards what they have been doing for years already regarding to their anti consumer, anti competitive and anti developer practices.

Thanks for this. I’m in the uk and I think that many people in the USA really don’t get that Apple cannot win when the eu decides it’s going to regulate and enforce a particular sector.

I’m bemused at what Aplle is doing with the core technology charge.

As you say it’s only going to end in more fines and Apple being forced to stop them.

Perhaps Apple in its hubris really thinks it can face down the EU.

And to those that are saying that Apple should now just leave the EU.

No, Apple is not going to pull out of its second biggest market in the world (all of Europe of which the EU forms the majority) - and one of the most stable areas of the world.

 

[surferfb]

If a side-loaded app breaks your phone this bad, what you have on your hand is serious exploit potentially worth big bucks. A modern OS might kill your app when it behaves in unexpected ways, but is should never crash the system.

When has a program killed your Mac last time? Does it happen often?

Mine - probably never, but I don't install crap on it. My mother-in-law's PC? I have to nuke the hard drive at least once a year and start fresh 🤣

 

[erikkfi]

And given that it was a span of maybe 24 hours from start to now...I seriously doubt the EU had ANYTHING to do with this. You really believe those several adjudicating bodies investigated the problem, compiled their evidence, discussed their findings, and came to an agreement on what to do in 24 hours? No government on earth works that fast. None.

Oh good, I'm in an argument with a stranger on the internet, where no one can be convinced any position they've previously taken is wrong.

 

[TVreporter]

If only I could go back in time and become a corporate lawyer… the guys working for Apple are set for generations.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Smaller companies will fight for the users with cheaper prices, same for the rival app stores, they cant hope to attract users if they will charge same 30% apple does, they will go to 10-15% tops for pay to play games and subscription kind of apps.
Epic takes 12% for their PC Game sales, which is reasonable in my opinion.
I know a bunch of clients we develop web sites/apps for that charge less money because they refuse to publish their apps in the apple app store and simply use progressive web app we develop for them.

Epics game store is an Epic failure and only taking 12% has not helped them at all. Didn't the court documents show how bad it was?

 

[TVreporter]

Can we get Tim vs. Tim in the octagon or a boxing match?

Surely that would make more money than Tyson vs Jake Paul!

 

[threesixty360]

Wont work, that fee is illegal under DMA and Epic will continue developing their rival app store but not publish it until EU either forces apple to remove it or fines them 10% of world wide sales and orders its removal so either way there will be a lot of changes to their current "rules".

Aren’t these like cross region license agreements with different jurisdictions?
On one hand a dev’s contract with Apple USA can contain whatever clauses both sides agree to (i.e. charge per download).
On the other hand the eu can insist anyone can run an App Store on devices sold in the EU.
I’m not even sure the two things are mutually exclusive. Apple would not be impeding any devs from releasing in the EU with that charge. Or does the DMA explicitly say otherwise?

 

[turbineseaplane]

With the debacle that was the Apple car, I really think it’s time for a change in leadership.

What about the new Watch Band colors though?

 

[Amazing Iceman]

🤦‍♂️

 

[GizmoDVD]

Why won't an HD-DVD work in your Xbox One?

Seems VERY unfair doesn't it? I want too play my HD DVDs on my PS5. Why is Sony acting like jerks?

 

[turbineseaplane]

When has a program killed your Mac last time? Does it happen often?

This does not happen

 

[N47H]

Oh good, I'm in an argument with a stranger on the internet, where no one can be convinced any position they've previously taken is wrong.

He literally goes round picking fights and negatively responding to any anti-Apple comments on these forums. I’d just give a wide berth. He’ll only bother you in the evenings anyway, during the day he’s down at his local Apple Store worshipping the people behind the ‘Genius Bar’.

 

[Mousse]

Dont get me wrong, if you are a huge company its a huuuge hassle to comply with every local law of country you are operating in, but laws have to be respected.. especially in the biggest markets you operate in.

Well yes. Apple does bend over backwards to comply with China's laws.

Everyone who is still defending Apple:
Do read up on Stockholm syndrome.

Oy! Now I have to wonder if my kids really like me🤔 or it's Stockholm syndrome.😬