Apple Reinstates Epic Games EU Developer Account, Paving the Way for Alternative App Store

[bcortens]

That’s not the reason at all. Your existence depends on electricity. Think you can be in IT without electricity. Can you be in IT without an iPhone? Yes.

In your opinion.

You need a cell phone, cellular chip and computer (aka laptop). I used to do it. And a windows based laptop (even Mac) works way better than any iPhone.

My "existence" doesn't depend on electricity, my quality of life does.

TVs can do less than phones, they are not used for 2FA, they are not used for banking, they are not used for GPS, etc... etc...

You need a smartphone for most jobs that require security via 2FA, not just a windows laptop.

Androids existence doesn't in any way negate the way iPhones are used in the real world.

 

[hydrochloride]

It's not a coincidence that both Epic and Microsoft started their legal/lobbying campaign against mobile right around the time that mobile gaming revenue got larger than PC/console gaming revenue combined.

Could you explain what a campaign against mobile would be?

 

[bcortens]

Which is why the DMA will probably allow the core tech fees to stay and Apple will continue to do everything they can to make using the 3rd party stores inconvenient and painful. Not only are they worried about the loss of App Store revenue, but market share and hardware revenue as well if such stores can make their devices irrelevant.

I part of this but not all. I don't think the DMA allows Apple to legally make it more financially onerous to use a third party store than the first party store (which the current setup does). I think they will have to get rid of the exemption for their own store (devs sticking to the old terms) if they want to keep the CTF around. They might also have to roll it out worldwide or the EU can just say "look you don't actually care about this everywhere else in the world, what makes the EU special?"
As I've said elsewhere Apple has gotten themselves in a corner on charging for platform access because who they choose to charge for platform access vs who gets to do everything for free is likely too arbitrary for the EUs taste.

 

[amnesia0287]

My "existence" doesn't depend on electricity, my quality of life does.

TVs can do less than phones, they are not used for 2FA, they are not used for banking, they are not used for GPS, etc... etc...

You need a smartphone for most jobs that require security via 2FA, not just a windows laptop.

Androids existance doesn't in any way negate the way iPhones are used in the real world.

your existence does depend on electricity tho… cause that’s how your brain works 🤯

it just doesn’t depend on buying extra electricity, and yes I know what you meant 😅

 

[hans1972]

This whole discussion here feels to me like half of the people were prison inmates in fear of what could happen to them if someone would open the outer doors.

It's more like you used to live in a bad part of town and now have been living in a gated community with a membership in a discriminating, exclusive gentlemans club. And the only time you ventured out was when going on a Safari.

And then the government comes in and says your beloved community has to be more open.
You might not look forward to mingle with the riff raff because you know how bad it can be at its worst.

 

[treacher]

It's not a coincidence that both Epic and Microsoft started their legal/lobbying campaign against mobile right around the time that mobile gaming revenue got larger than PC/console gaming revenue combined.

But as you said, they could just choose not to develop for iOS, right.

 

[gregmancuso]

Just don’t download load the alternative App Store then
Problem solved for YOU

That isn’t entirely true. Going down the rabbit hole-

In order to have the ability to download the store than the underlying platform needs to be changed to allow such secondary market. A potential hole in the security regardless of if I download a store.

Apps made available outside of the App Store may not be reviewed at all and have less than honorable intentions. If someone I know - iCloud Family member, contact, chat partner, social media connection, etc. - access an alternate App Store app that compromises their device may have negative implications on my device or on my life (think more targeted spam or other attacks).

Of that list above iCloud Family is probably the most dangerous as there are shared resources that become directly open to a nefarious app. I’d hope that part of allowing alt app stores is the ability for the Family owner to block access to alternate store by any member of the Family.

And, yes, that may sound a little paranoid. But security development is based on looking at all possibilities and some level of paranoia helps with that.

ETA - inevitably there will be a need to install an alternate store as an app you really want or, worse, need will only be available on a third-party store.

 

[gnipgnop]

Could you explain what a campaign against mobile would be?

Lawsuits that claim antitrust actions by Apple and lobbying both U.S. and EU legislators that Apple is guilty of anticompetitive behavior and new laws are needed.

 

[hans1972]

Why is that bad? We never had more content then now. I dont see that as "bad".
The EU isnt to regulare your pet peeves its to regulate monopolies or companies that dictate a certain market.

Because having to deal with a lot of streaming services to find all content is more complex and more cumbersome?
It certainly isn't as convenient as Apple Music or Spotify, where almost all music people are interested in is there.

I really don't want EU to regulate any of these markets.

 

[gnipgnop]

But as you said, they could just choose not to develop for iOS, right.

Right. Epic and Microsoft make big bucks from gaming without iOS. But they wanted to see if they could break Apple's model to make even more from mobile.

 

[hydrochloride]

It's more like you used to live in a bad part of town and now have been living in a gated community with a membership in a discriminating, exclusive gentlemans club. And the only time you ventured out was when going on a Safari.

And then the government comes in and says your beloved community has to be more open.
You might not look forward to mingle with the riff raff because you know how bad it can be at its worst.

It says a lot about such „gentlemen“ to see non-members as riff raff.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Anyone arguing that a smartphone isn't "required" for modern life

Absolutely required - no
Functionally required - yes, absolutely (believe me, I don't like it)

I'd love to legitimately test this (mostly impossible other than for yourself) with someone who still works (not retired) and believe me, you'd run into SO many frustrating if not impossible situations to navigate in life with no smartphone

 

[hydrochloride]

Because having to deal with a lot of streaming services to find all content is more complex

Yes, using one‘s brain is hard for some people.

 

[treacher]

Right. Epic and Microsoft make big bucks from gaming without iOS. But they wanted to see if they could break Apple's model to make even more from mobile.

I, too, remember when Microsoft ignored and then couldn't get into important markets to their own detriment.

 

[hans1972]

Yeah, and they made it in a way so that nobody can bypass them, in contrast to i.e. the Mac.

Which was a good thing.

In 2008, the world was lacking a good closed, locked down system for consumers. Apple saw a need for this and created a successful system where users spent a lot of money and developers very treated like ****. Almost everyone was happy.

Google went the other way: Open, open-source, as many app stores you wanted, multiple browsers, emulators and everything. And they're successful too.

Now, EU wants to take away such a wonderful closed, locked down system and opening up to help horrible developers and consumers who want emulators and alternative browsers.

 

[k995]

That isn’t entirely true. Going down the rabbit hole-

In order to have the ability to download the store than the underlying platform needs to be changed to allow such secondary market. A potential hole in the security regardless of if I download a store.

If you have that littl faith in apple why do you use their products? APple will check these apps stores and wont just allow anyone. I also have aitht hat apple can implmet these without leaving such huge open securtity issues.

 

[hydrochloride]

Lawsuits that claim antitrust actions by Apple and lobbying both U.S. and EU legislators that Apple is guilty of anticompetitive behavior and new laws are needed.

It seems at least EU legislators have a similar view on that.

 

[k995]

Because having to deal with a lot of streaming services to find all content is more complex and more cumbersome?
It certainly isn't as convenient as Apple Music or Spotify, where almost all music people are interested in is there.

I really don't want EU to regulate any of these markets.

The EU isnt regulating any of those markets .

 

[hydrochloride]

Which was a good thing.

In 2008, the world was lacking a good closed, locked down system for consumers. Apple saw a need for this and created a successful system where users spent a lot of money and developers very treated like ****. Almost everyone was happy.

Google went the other way: Open, open-source, as many app stores you wanted, multiple browsers, emulators and everything. And they're successful too.

Now, EU wants to take away such a wonderful closed, locked down system and opening up to help horrible developers and consumers who want emulators and alternative browsers.

And 16 years later the world changes and is moving on. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[k995]

Which was a good thing.

In 2008, the world was lacking a good closed, locked down system for consumers. Apple saw a need for this and created a successful system where users spent a lot of money and developers very treated like ****. Almost everyone was happy.

Google went the other way: Open, open-source, as many app stores you wanted, multiple browsers, emulators and everything. And they're successful too.

Now, EU wants to take away such a wonderful closed, locked down system and opening up to help horrible developers and consumers who want emulators and alternative browsers.

No they dont, the issue is that apple is abusing its power in the OS market.
If apple had stuck to just ios there wouldnt be an issue.

 

[gnipgnop]

It seems at least EU legislators have a similar view on that.

Sort of...the EU hedged on the "anticompetitive" part by using a market cap. So they talk in the media about certain things being anticompetitive but still want to allow smaller companies to use those anticompetitive actions. This approach undermines the idea that the EU wants a single market. They've got a double-standard in place.

 

[gnipgnop]

And 16 years later the world changes and is moving on. 🤷🏻‍♂️View attachment 2357267

Forcing everything to be like Windows/Mac isn't "moving on".

 

[surferfb]

If you have that littl faith in apple why do you use their products? APple will check these apps stores and wont just allow anyone. I also have aitht hat apple can implmet these without leaving such huge open securtity issues.

People defending the EU in this thread are ALSO upset that Apple isn’t allowing side loading and requiring alternative app stores in the first place and noting they hope the EU strikes that down.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Apple have been well-compensated for their investment. It “only” made them the world’s most valuable company.

I don’t it’s fair that their early mover advantage in developing smartphones and their operating systems allow them to control distribution of apps and unilaterally set anticompetitive rules and commission rates forever.

The exact same commission rates (or less!) than every other software distribution service.

How “anticompetitive” of them!

Oh no, Schweeny couldn’t set up his own store in his app 🙀

Oh no, Spotify couldn’t link directly to their own payment service in their app 🙀

These are “the rules” as EU guys love to point out — yes wouldn’t everyone love a free lunch on the App Store!

Your BS “first mover advantage” makes it sound like Apple just “happened” to be first and that any other company could do what they did. FING RIDICULOUS!

Name ONE EU company that had the software and hardware chops to get it done?

Y’all can enjoy your tech slide into oblivion while playing Fortnight downloaded from the Epic store 😂

You’re a real bunch of “winners” for sure!

 

[k995]

Sort of...the EU hedged on the "anticompetitive" part by using a market cap. So they talk in the media about certain things being anticompetitive but still want to allow smaller companies to use those anticompetitive actions. This approach undermines the idea that the EU wants a single market. They've got a double-standard in place.

No, a "single market" is about an open field across nations.
Its not "a single company" controlling that market. The EU doesnt want monopolies that are over powerfull and thats what this legislation is starting to tackle.